Forum
A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
Page 813 of 1419
FirstPreviousNextLast
TheHeat9 (0 DX)
12 Nov 11 UTC
LIVE GAME
Game called Lamp Post Startes in 10 min Pot is 6
0 replies
Open
Slyguy270 (527 D)
11 Nov 11 UTC
LIVE GAME!!!
GMS-4 starting in 10 min.! join now!!!
2 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
08 Nov 11 UTC
Introducing a friend to diplomacy
Hey everyone,

A girl at work wants to learn to play diplomacy. Let's teach her :)
211 replies
Open
Tolstoy (1962 D)
06 Nov 11 UTC
Yet another attempt at a high-stakes World Game with experienced players
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=71672
24 replies
Open
rokakoma (19138 D)
11 Nov 11 UTC
Candy Paint N Texas Plates
6 replies
Open
Sicarius (673 D)
09 Nov 11 UTC
10 reasons history will judge America as one of the most brutal empires in history
Thoughts? Additions?
76 replies
Open
Babak (26982 D(B))
11 Nov 11 UTC
I've decided to play a game...
join if you like. 750 buy-in. anon. WTA. classic. 48 hour phases.

gameID=71751
4 replies
Open
vamosrammstein (757 D(B))
09 Nov 11 UTC
Joe Paterno
Thoughts on his announcement of his retirement at the end of this season?
68 replies
Open
taos (281 D)
09 Nov 11 UTC
midle east gameers only
10 replies
Open
jdog97 (100 D)
11 Nov 11 UTC
Fun Game
21 more minutes before the start fo world war 5 there are still 5 spots join soon.
gameID=71995
1 reply
Open
jdog97 (100 D)
11 Nov 11 UTC
join this game
Join this game now

gameID=71994
14 replies
Open
jdog97 (100 D)
11 Nov 11 UTC
join this game
Join this game now
gameID=71994
0 replies
Open
JohnnyB (0 DX)
10 Nov 11 UTC
come on then...
if u think u got what it takes..

gameID=71912
3 replies
Open
jdog97 (100 D)
10 Nov 11 UTC
New game
Join world war three. Cheep classic game starts at 8 still need 6 people.
gameID=71995
0 replies
Open
General Maximus (1715 D)
10 Nov 11 UTC
New Game:
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=71802

25 to join. 36 hr rounds. Just need one more player.
0 replies
Open
jdog97 (100 D)
10 Nov 11 UTC
games
Join World war three in the next 10 minutes
2 replies
Open
stratagos (3269 D(S))
10 Nov 11 UTC
Multi Accounting Cheating Bastard!
Read within
11 replies
Open
Spartan22 (344 D)
10 Nov 11 UTC
How to contact a mod
I am wondering how you contact a mod for an issue within a game. Our game was paused by the Webdiplomacy system and we have 2 NMRs that won't be able to vote unpause. I assume a mod would be able to fix the issue, however I don not know how to contact one. Any help would be appreciated
3 replies
Open
taos (281 D)
09 Nov 11 UTC
moral dilema
if i am playing anonimous game and i discovered who is one of the players and know him well(very close friend)
how should i act?
cancel the game?
is not fair for the rest of the players
8 replies
Open
kestasjk (95 DMod(P))
10 Nov 11 UTC
Disk space issues
Details on the disk space issues, which caused a freeze on game processing, within.
10 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
07 Nov 11 UTC
Companies oppose legislation...
http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/11/04/Google_Microsoft_Starbucks_Say_DOMA_Hurts_Their_Businesses/

isn't it normal for companies to buy politicians and pay lobbiest to do this sort of thing?
Page 3 of 6
FirstPreviousNextLast
 
You'd have to talk to people who actually disagree, and I'm sure it's a completely bullshit reason. If I had my way, I would snap my fingers and all the religious right would simultaneously get over their stupidity and just marry gays and be okay with it.

But they won't, and the result is to create both an immediate problem (actual legal inequality between unions) and a longer-standing problem (a culture which is okay with this inequality and hesitant to accept gays). You can't change culture overnight, so trying to create a one-time fix doesn't do it. But you can fix the immediate problem of legal inequality right then and there, and this solution does so, while also providing a broader, much more conducive framework for gay activists to work with in order to bring about a longer-term cultural change.

I think the key misconception about this solution is that the proponents here are saying "Well, we just have to do this and we're done." I know better and I think the other proponents know better, too. But that's as far as a government can go policywise. Beyond that it's up to activists to use a much more accepting legal framework to combat the elements within our culture which resist the acceptance of gays.
Draugnar (0 DX)
07 Nov 11 UTC
And your second analogy is almosty correct, but needs to be amended to point out that both can now buy cookies, but the government only lets them buy cottage cheese in the government's cafeteria because it did away with cookies in the cafeteria.

So your proper analogy would be "heteros can buy cookies in the cafeteria but samesex couldn't so the government stopped selling cookies int he cafeteria and only sold cottage cheese, telling them to get their cookies elsewhere if they want them."
just on the side, this Nexus of liberal(er) corporations is a growing force that in the future I believe could wield some serious clout
orathaic (1009 D(B))
07 Nov 11 UTC
@Putin, you seem to be under the impression that cookies and cottage cheese have a different taste...

it's an illusion, a rose by any other name would smell the same. Just because it is labelled cottage cheese doesn't make much of a difference.

Again, if your aim is to give all people the right to part-take of that hetro-normative social instution that is marriage then obviously this is a failure, however if your aim is to include all people in society within a secular legal framework, while respect the rights of churches to exist, then it think it's clear the dis-empowering the church is more important.

Seperating the church from the state in this sense.

As to your stupid cottage cheese versus cookies metaphor, how about this, some people prefer cottage cheese, and maybe the world will be a better place without cookies, and the whole sugar based industry, with it's inherent ills.
Putin33 (111 D)
07 Nov 11 UTC
The illusion is this idea that you'd be taking any power away from churches through this civil union scheme since they already don't have a monopoly over marriage. People already go to the courthouse to get married and get their contracts from the state agencies. This is not separating the church and state, this is merely a cop-out, taking the word marriage out of the argument against acceptance.

You say the rose smells the same, but it obviously doesn't if you'd go through all this trouble to change everyone's status rather than recognize gay marriage.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
07 Nov 11 UTC
@Mafia

The argument you seem to be making is that because I'm not gay, my opinions (even when they aim to support your cause) are uniformed and irrelevant. Am I misunderstanding you?

I think that is a very poor stance to take and it certainly won't help you find allies.

If gays were given civil unions and straights were given marriages, I agree that that would be a serious problem and is not an adequate solution. But, I don't see why it would be a problem if, from now on, *no one* could get a marriage license through the state and civil unions were equally accessible and applicable.

And, I agree that bigots don't exist in a vacuum, but I'm not sure it's realistic to change them in one go-through. I'm not suggesting making Civil Unions and then just giving up the cause. Of course, you'd then keep working, but at least you've hit a big milestone.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
07 Nov 11 UTC
And, in case it wasn't clear, I would prefer that the Fed just recognizes gay marriage the same as straight marriage. It's the easiest solution and the most equal. But, I'm approaching this problem from the direction of how to get the most results quickest, if not the best results on the first go.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
07 Nov 11 UTC
"You say the rose smells the same, but it obviously doesn't if you'd go through all this trouble to change everyone's status rather than recognize gay marriage."

How does this change everyone's status? it changes the wording of a law and leaves their status as it was yesterday, while taking away the power of granting civil unions from churches (which they currently hold under a different name) and guarenteeing the rights of all couples to have a civil union regardless of gender.

I'm not against legalizing gay marriage, i'm in favour of equality and there are many ways to skin a cat.
Putin33 (111 D)
07 Nov 11 UTC
I think the objection is this idea that straight people are telling LGBTQ people what should be acceptable to them in terms of the marriage/union issue and telling LGBTQ people what to think and how they should feel. In my mind it's akin to when men tell women that "chick" is not offensive because other women don't object to being infantilized. But if it's offensive to the women you are calling a chick then it is indeed offensive, so stop telling women what to think.
Putin33 (111 D)
07 Nov 11 UTC
You know what I meant, you're changing the term (status) rather than simply have the government recognize gay marriage. It's obviously not the same thing if people are proposing change everyone's relationship from marriage to civil union rather than simply incorporate the excluded group. I feel like we're repeating ourselves at this point.
Sargmacher (0 DX)
08 Nov 11 UTC
If Hitler had been allowed to deal with this problem then it wouldn't even be an issue.
Sargmacher (0 DX)
08 Nov 11 UTC
And your second analogy is almosty correct, but needs to be amended to point out that both can now buy cookies, but the government only lets them buy cottage cheese in the government's cafeteria because it did away with cookies in the cafeteria.

So your proper analogy would be "heteros can buy cookies in the cafeteria but samesex couldn't so the government stopped selling cookies int he cafeteria and only sold cottage cheese, telling them to get their cookies elsewhere if they want them."



That doesn't sound accurate at all.
If cookies = marriage and cottage cheese = civil unions, then the government is still selling cookies but only to heteros, who can buy both, but gays only have access to cottage cheese. I think the analogy is a bit rubbish though.
Sargmacher (0 DX)
08 Nov 11 UTC
A much easier analogy would be bread.

For thousands of years, only heterosexual couples could buy bread. They could buy any bread they desired.

Then, suddenly, the government decreed that gay people could buy wholemeal bread (whole wheat) but ONLY wholemeal bread.

So, gay people can now buy 'bread' but only a certain type. Heterosexuals can buy wholemeal bread but they can also buy white bread - the norm choice for people who buy bread.

It boils down to whether:
a. Gay guys should be happy with the bread they have been allowed to buy.
b. Gay should demand to have full access to all types of bread.
c. Everyone should have access to only one type of bread.
Then what's the problem? Seriously. Since apparently this solution isn't a solution at all and is some arrogant condescending slap in the face to the gay community and just this awful thing, what the flying fuck do you want to happen? I keep hearing "but it's not the same" and "this is just a slap in the face" but I for the life of me don't see how.

If you want all churches to start marrying gays ASAP, then honestly, too bad. I want it too, but government fundamentally cannot make churches do that, and the churches aren't going to change on their own volition tomorrow. Gradual cultural change is the ONLY permanent solution. And it's not something you can snap your fingers and make go away. People suck. You don't have to deal with it, you can work to change it, but if these people were reasonable enough to be convinced of the errors of their ways, they wouldn't have a problem with gays in the first place.

If this solution is so damn offensive, someone tell me (a) what the actual problem is in concrete terms that can be discussed instead of the irritating "you gotta be there" deflection and (b) what the real solution is.
Sargmacher (0 DX)
08 Nov 11 UTC
"If you want all churches to start marrying gays ASAP, then honestly, too bad."

I don't want this. Churches should be allowed to operate under acceptable principles they desire.
Sargmacher (0 DX)
08 Nov 11 UTC
It basically comes down to bread.

For thousands of years, only heterosexual couples could buy bread. They could buy any bread they desired.

Then, suddenly, the government decreed that gay people could buy wholemeal bread (whole wheat) but ONLY wholemeal bread.

So, gay people can now buy 'bread' but only a certain type. Heterosexuals can buy wholemeal bread but they can also buy white bread - the norm choice for people who buy bread.

It boils down to whether:
a. Gay guys should be happy with the bread they have been allowed to buy.
b. Gay should demand to have full access to all types of bread.
c. Everyone should have access to only one type of bread.
Sargmacher (0 DX)
08 Nov 11 UTC
Cookies and cottage cheese? Please.
Sargmacher (0 DX)
08 Nov 11 UTC
'Cottage' cheese, is that a veiled gay-culture joke, Putin?
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
08 Nov 11 UTC
This conversation is making me very hungry.
Sargmacher (0 DX)
08 Nov 11 UTC
Bread and cottage cheese, followed by cookies.
Sargmacher (0 DX)
08 Nov 11 UTC
Or were you just hungry for gay?
Sargmacher (0 DX)
08 Nov 11 UTC
So many times I see Putin rehash the same densely-constructed arguments. I'm sure he has a word file that he copies and pastes from.
Except for the fact that nowhere in the solution proposed did government decree that gay people cannot be married. The solution leaves the religious aspect of marriage to the churches while taking over the legal aspect and making it equal to everyone.

When are we going to see an analogy that actually represents what's being argued for?
Sargmacher (0 DX)
08 Nov 11 UTC
"nowhere in the solution proposed did government decree that gay people cannot be married."

Ah - I was under the impression that the government would need to legislate that they COULD be married for them to do so? What you're saying suggests that, as it stands, gay people in America (for I guess that's the country everyone's talking about as their wondrous national example) can 'marry'?

I thought it was much more complex than that - and purely based on state decisions at the moment? 7 states allow gay marriage, some civil unions, and some out right banning the two options altogether.
Sargmacher (0 DX)
08 Nov 11 UTC
Why is bread not a fair analogy?

Purely on a national level, it boils down to whether:
a. Gay guys should be happy with the bread they have been allowed to buy.
b. Gay should demand to have full access to all types of bread.
c. Everyone should have access to only one type of bread.

What do you think is missed? This works in the UK for sure - perhaps it doesn't stretch to the state complications of the American system. If that is true, I apologise and withdraw my bread analogy.
Putin33 (111 D)
08 Nov 11 UTC
Sarg missed the point of the analogy. We've concluded though that this scheme is an attempt at gradually gaining acceptance by eliminating the main source of opposition - the term marriage. My main point though was that the term marriage has a psychological value that is being underestimated by this civil union argument. My final analogy is this: Say people stridently opposed inter-racial marriage, and did not want them recognized as marriage. The government obliged for 100s of years, then decided that to make things "equal" it would set aside the term marriage and say everyone can have a civil union.That's not going to be satisfying. Because marriage has had this particular value since time immemorial, and was only enjoyed by a certain group. To call it another name because some people don't want others to enjoy the psychological acceptance that the term marriage gives is a *cop out*. Objectively, it might be legal equality. But psychologically, it is not equal acceptance. It doesn't feel like a barrier is being broken.
Sargmacher (0 DX)
08 Nov 11 UTC
I didn't miss the point. I realise you were trying to suggest that cookies sounded better and 'cottage cheese' was the miserable second-best. I just think bread is an easier analogy to go with - you overcomplicated it.
Sargmacher (0 DX)
08 Nov 11 UTC
What I dislike is the way left wing activists want to claim that the gay community needs marriage for them to be equal. I'm gay and I don't care about gay marriage. Let the churches keep it as a relic of their institution. I don't feel that the term marriage would offer me the psychological acceptance Putin33 suggests it would.

"But psychologically, it is not equal acceptance. It doesn't feel like a barrier is being broken." -Putin33

It sounds like you are the one identifying the barriers that are in place and need to be broken. I think President Eden's line of gradual progressive cultural change is a much better answer than seeing things in black and white situations where something needs to be broken. I don't feel like I need churches to accept gay 'marriage' to feel psychologically equal - and I feel that is the case for the majority of gay people.
Sargmacher (0 DX)
08 Nov 11 UTC
It's really quite grating when left wing missionaries such as Putin33 want to put words in the mouth of gay people or some invented 'gay community' - "The government obliged for 100s of years, then decided that to make things "equal" it would set aside the term marriage and say everyone can have a civil union.That's not going to be satisfying" -

Who exactly is it not satisfying? Too often the debate about gay equality is being swamped by militant humanists and atheists who just want to attack the church and its institutions in the name of the grand cause of gay rights.
damian (675 D)
08 Nov 11 UTC
I'd just like to back Sarg up on this one. Being gay (Well... Bi). I'm not terribly offended by the idea of civil unions. In fact I support them as being a pretty reasonable way of achieving the desired rights.

A sentiment that I'm fairly sure is echoed by lots of the LGBT people I know.

Page 3 of 6
FirstPreviousNextLast
 

170 replies
Mujus (1495 D(B))
10 Nov 11 UTC
Game 69351 Problem with Pause
Game 69351 says it's paused, but it's not, or at least, it accepted my orders. The players didn't pause it, so I don't know what's up.
1 reply
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
09 Nov 11 UTC
RPN
So, this thread may be a flop, but I'll try anyway.

Are there any RPN users out there? If so, which calculator do you have?
32 replies
Open
Tolstoy (1962 D)
10 Nov 11 UTC
Help!
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=69351
Orders were processed and the turn progressed, but the map won't draw.
16 replies
Open
idealist (680 D)
10 Nov 11 UTC
anyone up for gunboat live tonight?
if so, post and we'll make a game
0 replies
Open
Owerbart (484 D)
09 Nov 11 UTC
Cheating?
Ok, first of all, I'm not mad about the game, but look at England and France:
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=71918
Is really THAT much of coordination possible in a gunboat? I think they are communicating with each other or it's the same person.
7 replies
Open
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
09 Nov 11 UTC
The Masters: I need emails!
Hey, so to get this running as easy as possible for me, I'll need all of your emails so I can contact you directly, rather than PM'ing all 49 of you several times each
3 replies
Open
Ges (292 D)
09 Nov 11 UTC
A consequential voting day?
Tuesday was weirdly quiet in California. Usually we have a host of ballot initiatives, the evil intentions of which are only partially masked by their purposefully poor writing. Any other 'Murcans, except for Buckeyes, have a lot at stake on Tuesday?
5 replies
Open
Jacob (2466 D)
09 Nov 11 UTC
Momentum and Efficiency
Do you have trouble growing quickly? Do you hang on for one or two thirds of the game but never really get anywhere? Do you find yourself participating in a lot of draws as a minor power or simply being eliminated much of the time? Help is within..
8 replies
Open
Slyguy270 (527 D)
09 Nov 11 UTC
LIVE GAME!!!
live game starting in 4 min. 3 players needed game name gms 3 password brandon
0 replies
Open
Page 813 of 1419
FirstPreviousNextLast
Back to top