Sorry KA, you just set it up so well I couldn't resist.

@Putin: I've only said that three times in my life...so I don't know what you're talking about. But if you women want me to stop saying that, I guess I have no choice but to comply, seeing how badly I treat women.

Looks in capitalist society only matter for women. Look at all the tv shows with ugly men with attractive wives. Look at all the shows where leading men are ugly as sin. Now try to name some tv shows where leading women are even plain, much less ugly.
Hell look at the news anchors for christ's sake. Every week Fox News has a new runway model on narrating the news. We even have blonde female Rhodes scholar, concert violinist news anchors pretending not to know what the word ignoramus means. That tells you all you need to know about the society we live in.

Anyone who wants to counteract these "values" has my support.

I was referring to Sacred Digits, not you.

Oh, my apologies. But yes, there is too much appreciation for looks and nothing else....why did they have to do away with the arranged marriage?

@ Putin ugly Betty maybe :p

@ trim101 - Oh please. Yes Ugly Betty may be not terribly attractive, but google America Ferrera, and say the same thing.

I was wondering why all the idiots post during the day, and then I remembered that trolls are afraid of sunlight.

KA please don't try2lern2science, it's too big and scary for you.

I believe each point represents the mean of a nation (thats "average" for you Virginians), so it would be exceedingly rare for even a highly educated nation to have a mean IQ much higher than 105 or so... however an illiterate and impoverished nation (both qualities that make people ripe for religious infection) could easily have a mean IQ in the 80's).

Now, I'm a researcher, and I can tell you there is absolutely no way you can tell if this data is cherry-picked without having been the one to do so. I would like to read the original journal article if anybody can link to it... it DOES make me skeptical that the website doesn't appear to do so, but since the data confirms my prejudices I'm inclined to believe it :P

@Yellowjacket: The mean IQ of Virginians is 96. That means that just as many people are going away from 96 in each direction. This article is definitely cherry-picked because I know plenty of stupid people on either side, with plenty of smarter ones as well. And if you believe it because of that mere reason, I'm inclined to call you a dumbass...just as this whole country is filled with dumbasses.

Attractiveness, or rather relative attractiveness within the available target group (which applies both ways by the way) will influence the initial approach and its success or lack thereof, but that will only get you to a first date. After that it's down to personal compatibility as you get to know each other and part of *that* is relative intelligence.

@YellowJacket:I thought IQ scoring was set up so that 100 was the average.

"The mean IQ of Virginians is 96. That means that just as many people are going away from 96 in each direction. "


EPIC stats fail. Mean does not equal median...

governor school hasnt covered averages yet I see

Lol +10 SuperSteve.

Sorry couldn't be here was clubbing - the shallowest of shallow activities, so sue me.

Anyway I *generally* agree obi but it is really hard to get over it if someone is literally just aesthetically displeasing or even disgusting.

I do value brains much more, but there is a threshold of looks that you need to pass lol. My tastes are different than the mainstream far as I can tell though so for that I get lucky because the "hot" ones I find... not hot. Usually anyway.

I should note that it has been shown the most durable relationships are those in which the woman is smarter than the man. But most of my relationships have been me and a really dumb girl - in high school anyway.

My current focus on serious relationships with smart girls is partly a reaction to that black hole of meaninglessness. Lol.

And Obi I really like that sonnet thanks for sharing it.

obi's off having a little cry.

''The mean IQ of Virginians is 96. ''

I know that you Ameircans are generally quite keen on IQ tests, but what do they actually measure? If it is intelligence then can you define precisely what that is? As far as I can see these tests are very good at measuring experience and the degree of preparation for the test itself, rather than anything else. Indeed, they become a self-fulfilling prophecy to allow and justify the inequality of middle-class/privately educated kids grabbing all the best spots at college.

too bad Colleges don't take IQ tests ino considerations, nor do most Americans receive IQ tests at any time in their life. Are you thinking of standardized tests?

"obi-rainman posted,...."am I the only one who'd put brain-size over...?"
#################################################################
But of course you are, you pompous (not)fucking cunt. The rest of us are mindless cattle. You are SUPERMAN, you ball-less wonder.
#################################################################
"I'm as asexual a creature as you can get, so physical attractiveness.."
#################################################################
You, more than likely, have a mild strain of Autism. This, in and of itself, is not a bad thing. Your mock-incomprehension of why you are different from others is getting more than a little tiresome, however.
#################################################################
"As usual, I think Shakespeare has a handle on this"
#################################################################
So do I. He married at the age of 18, and his first child was born SIX MONTHS LATER(Please. One of you patient people explain to obi-eunuch what the significance of this is). By most accounts he fathered three children, and was something of a hound dog.

In other words he was kind of normal, unlike you.
#################################################################
""there is no physical spark for either of us, so that is all we are, best friends."

That's "all" you are?

As if there's more?"
#################################################################
I pity you.

You seem to think that you lead some sort of evolved existence.

You're over-compensating.

These cerebral relationships, which you admire, are NOT mutually exclusive from physical relationships. They are part of a whole.

Your brain is MISSING a part, and you KNOW it.

Frankly, it's nothing more than sour grapes.
#################################################################
"They ALWAYS end" "
#################################################################
Simplistic, and just plain wrong.
#################################################################
"Best Friends are the pinnacle...physical attraction's just a nice, gaudy attraction...Best Friends are...the best...All gay jokes aside--at the end of the day, it's not a woman--not even Irene Adler--Holmes needs at his side, but Watson...
They're connected in a way no physical connection can ever approach"
#################################################################
How ON EARTH could you know, you sad freak?"

Taking that bit by bit...

-Well, at least obi-rainman is better than Fag-naur in your nickname-game...

-I'm not claiming to be a Superman...if I were, I DEFINITELY wouldn't waste my time (however, as it's Labor Day weekend and this is a fun break from labor...sure, I'll waste my time, it still beats wasting it on krellin's antics...)

-Ahhhhh...come on, maple--don't insult the autistic by comparing them to ME...if some of the more severely-autistic ones weren't already banging their heads against walls, they'd do it now in frustration at being compared to a JEW...you don't really want to insult Autistic kids so badly as to liken them to a damn-dirty JEW, do you?

-Well, that's because Shakespeare was made of that special kind of awesome that only occurs one in a generation if lucky--see "Conneryism" for more details--and because birth control wasn't exactly readily available at that time--but hey, the man DID like his sex, more power to him, helped him write some of nthe best material on the matter (and yeah, I get what the kid means, maple, I talk so much Shakespeare here its a trope on par with Godwin's Law here now, Obi's Law, enter a conversation with him, and Shakespeare is SURE to follow if he stays in for any amount of time...)

-I don't pretend to be more evolved than anyone else--my point is there is no position higher than Friendship in the highest degree...sex is just an icing on the cake and the means to an end, that is, to keep the species going (and if we're what the species is now churning out, you and me and krellin and KA and the rest of the deprived folks we have here...maybe we ought to thing that whole "keep the species" thing going and quit while we're ahead, eh?)

-No, RIGHT...either there's a breakup or one of the partners will eventually DIE...so yeah, all things come to an end, including love relationships.

-Fair enough, I suppose, but even still, I'l stand by my assessment.

@ Santa...I apologise, i did mean the tests you mention. I read up about them here -

http://www.researchandmarkets.com/reports/682204/2009_worldwide_exam_preparation_and_tutoring

I also gather that your score goes up 40 per $20 000 increase in income.

http://www.domesatreview.com/content/sat-test-demographics-income-and-ethnicity

How does your institution react to these data?

my institution was a community college, i don't think they cared much. I would only blame the tutoring so much, bottom line is education is split along race and economic lines as well so one would expect lower scores from lower income areas. I know that schools make corrections for this with their policies, about specifics or whether it is enough I don't pretend to know. What would you suggest for an alternative? The near aristocratic system you have in the UK?

@ Santa, I agree that the UK system is grossly unfair. Indeed it has actually got a lot worse in the last 20 or 30 years; I also think that the US system is too. On other words all that old guff about ''the land of oportunity'' speaks more about the exception that the rule. Over on your side of the pond, even if the class system is less acute, the outcome predicted by the monied accident of your birth is just as inequitable.

@speakertoaliens: It supposedly is, but that's a gross average, not average per nation... i.e. each nation will have a mean IQ offset from 100. Fullhamish asks the right question, which is "What is IQ really measuring?" I'd suggest those that don't know look it up, because it likely isn't what you think.

@KA I'm not saying it for sure isn't cherry picked, I'm just saying you don't have enough information to say it definitely is. That's why I'd like to see the original paper. And your personal experience with "dumbasses" is hardly a valid counterargument for a scientific, peer reviewed paper (again assuming that's what this is, I really don't know!)

obi....your asexuality is not an intellectual choice that you've made. It is a part of your disability. Admit it, and you'll feel better.

I don't think I ever claimed it was an intellectual choice...

Just a choice.

Wrong.

Sexual attraction is NATURAL. You can't do anything about it.

Something is very wrong with you.

Imagine little mapleleafs running around the world. Horrifying. Talk about the dregs of the empire.

@Putin: And I agree. In real life, I always refer to females beyond their teen years as "women", which is the single biggest reason that I've usually been successful with them. That's the advice I always give. However, when trolling teh intrawebs, I'm basically gonna say whatever.

@Zephyris: "Thanks for your reply. So it sounds like you wouldn't completely dismiss dating her, until sex becomes relevant? What if she already had genital surgery?"

It's an interesting question. I think once genital surgery had happened, I'm not going to care what was originally there. We all have embarrassing baby pictures, as it were, and I've already procreated to the extent I desire. I'm not even SURE I would care now: I have a MTF friend, and I find her very attractive. There exist many other reasons for not dating her (including but not limited to me being married and her living two states away), but I think, yes, I could picture circumstances where I would.

Wikipedia-boy insulting MY sons.

Hilarious.....