Unfortunately, my Turkish friend left for the night. I should have had her just translate this for you...

@McChazza,
Mate there is a difference between arguing against American Supremacy and defending the Turkish supremacy. I'm doing the first thing and I am personally against the latter one. Do I really look like I care or symphatise what Erdoğan says? (But just a fact for you, the Turkish army today has lost its power because Erdoğan -himself- took it so you should start blaming the government which holds the ropes of the army. I symphatise neither of them though xD )

Oki let me put it simple: no country is the most powerful one. =3 (that's my subjective point of view and irrelevant to subject :3)

And my main point: it is supremacist to say everyone should speak english because the USA is the most powerful country.

now please dont come to me with irrelevant points... =3

@Neb:

Heh. Why not - it's good for a laugh after a bottle of lovely Pinot Grigio and having lost terribly in my gunboat game - bloody Brits... :)

Turkiye poloniya dostlugum serefeiniz

"Neb: wow, chill out... :) "

Agreed.

"That's a completely RUDE and SUPREMACIST and totaly UNACCEPTABLE".

No it isn't. Abgemacht is completely correct here. He isn't saying English should be the main language in the world. He is telling you that it is, and why.

The only thing you did is repeat your view that abgemacht is a supremacist, only with more (dare I say incorrect?) capitalisation.

"Anyone can speak any language in any style at any level, no matter if translated via a lousy online translator or not."

If this is your main point, you are clearly mistaken. For example, copy/paste some of the posts in this thread into Google translate to your native language and see what comes out. Does that look very sophisticated?

Actually, I just tried it, and the result is an incomprehensible mess.

@Bas: if I remember right, this would be a 'ik snap heer geen sak van' moment, right? :)

@Bas: I think you misunderstand Neb. He is saying that a person has the right to speak any language with any style or any level. Of course it was his bad wording. The word "can" should be a "may". Then it should make sense.
Abgemacht is not correct in saying that English is the main language in the world. It is a standard in the ways of business, but defining it as the main language in the world is incorrect as that would require a majority of the world to speak it. This is not true. By basing his argument on the reason that USA is the world's most powerful nation (which I'm not refuting, but merely quoting), he changes the nature of his argument into that of a supremacist. He should, instead, base it on a reasoning more along the lines of "USA is where the most advancements are made", or "USA is the country where the brightest men and women converge".

@The Situation:

...which last two statements I hope you are not ascribing to in all seriousness, for even were they true, it would launch a verbal bloodbath from our friend Neb.

@The Situation

Did you bother to read what I wrote, or did you just read Neb's (misquoted) quotes?

I said that the countries that speak English are also some of the most powerful. Yes, this includes US, but also England and India, and China and many others. They aren't the primary language, but it is still spoken there.

I would make the same argument that if you lived in one of the boarders states in the US, you should probably learn Spanish.

@abgemacht
I re-read your messages:

"English is spoken by the most powerful countries in the world."

"No, this is not racist. It is simply a fact that the US is the world's p(m)ost powerful single country. Additionally, it is a fact that many other countries (such as India and China) use English for business and technology even though that isn't their native language. I'm sorry if the truth offends you."

So USA is the most powerful one and there are also many other countries that speak English [according to your second message] (but they are not the most powerful of course from your point of view. you said in your second message "there are many countries that speak English as well refering to ındia and China)

So what happened to "the most powerful countries" in your first message? You reduced them to the US and refered India and China as "many other countries". If you ever studied logic or legal reasoning, you can easily see that you are implying the reason India and China speaks English is because the most powerful country -that's to say the US according to you- speaks English.

Lets stop playing games. You know what I claim and I know what you are trying to do with these puns.

Apologise or not, I do not really care anymore. neither do I care if you get away with such statements from this website as well. But if you try to impose supremacist ideas like that, I assure you there are many people who will stand against your outdated thoughts =3

And about your Turkish friend... =3 Why are you trying to humiliate me? is it because you realise that you have no other good arguement? heh =3 I hope I misunderstood what you mean there =D because it would be pathetic and immoral to say "if you dont understand, I have a friend to translate for you" =3

"No country is the most powerful one."

Mmm... maybe no one country. I think you can definitely identify rough groups of states that are at the upper echelon economically, militarily, politically, etc. and look to that group as the most powerful group.

And among them are English-primary states, such as the United States and Britain, and non-English-primary states, such as India and China.

But *all* of them speak English in business. English *is* the trade language, and the closest thing to a common language among the most powerful bloc of states in the world. Consequently, because these most powerful states use English in business and trade, less powerful states that do not share a common language may use English to trade. And so on and so forth; such that, while English isn't a universal language, not by any means, it is the closest thing to a common language in the world.

And, therefore, is the default assumption on websites like this one. It's not mandatory. It's a guideline. If, for example, you were to negotiate with me in a game in Turkish, I would take the time to use Google Translator and figure out what you're saying (and I would respond in Turkish using Google Translator), but I would certainly ask if you speak English fluently enough for practical negotiation, and if the answer were no, then I'd be very inclined to negotiate more extensively and favorably with someone who speaks English fluently enough for practical negotiation. (For sake of completion, that wouldn't happen; your English is fine. Just using an example.)

It's a practical convention, not a racist, supremacist mandate.

@ Nebuchadnezzar: Fucking hell, get a life. Abgemacht was at no point attempting to advance a US-supremacist viewpoint. He has explained this to you at some length, and yet you continue to label him a "supremacist" and attack him. You have now reached the point of deliberately misinterpreting and twisting his words to further your own agenda, and this is *not* helpful.

If anyone should apologise to the forum, at this point, it's you, not abgemacht.

"So USA is the most powerful one and there are also many other countries that speak English [according to your second message] (but they are not the most powerful of course from your point of view. you said in your second message "there are many countries that speak English as well refering to ındia and China)

So what happened to "the most powerful countries" in your first message? You reduced them to the US and refered India and China as "many other countries". If you ever studied logic or legal reasoning, you can easily see that you are implying the reason India and China speaks English is because the most powerful country -that's to say the US according to you- speaks English. "

Sort of. The actual reason was that the British Empire was fucking huge (in the early 1900s the British Empire owned a quarter of the world's population, all of whom spoke some form of English), and because of how geographically spread out that Empire was and how major a player it was in trade -- as well as former colonies like the United States -- India/China, who weren't the superpowers they were today, learned English to trade, and became superpowers as a result of that trade.

Like it or not, that's how things played out.

am I allowed to take over the mantle of 'dispossessed, disenfranchised, disenchanted and stark raving mad national minority' in this thread, just to keep it going?

-continuation-

So yeah, things are now in part because of imperialism and trade by English-speaking powers. But now, the practice of speaking English continues -- not out of imperialistic motivation, but practical convention, because all the major powers do in fact use English as a trade language. It's no longer remotely linked to any kind of supremacy.

What's the point in noting that past empires were imperialistic?

go for it, McTroll ;P

@ Eden your first 4 paraghraphs are about a different issue which we all touched briefly but I just wanna remind all of us that we can just argue if there can be the most powerful nation or nation bloc etc... or not in a different seperate topic.

Your last 2 paragraph shows that you are missing the centre of the arguement. I already stated that I at least to a degree agree with what you say. Check my message where I clearly state my position.

Problem here is a statement made by Abgemacht and I explained why it is supremacist as well. Let me say it again.

You may say that one nation can be the most powerful one. But if you say that we should speak English because that nation is the most powerful one then you are being supremacist. The problem is not that we should speak English.

The problem here is the reasoning of an Admin here regarding why we should speak English.

well, I think that based on [insert random, irrelevant and illogical facts here], everyone on this thread except for me is part of a ZIONIST MASONIC CONSPIRACY and if you don't believe me you can read it on WikiLeaks.
So there!

@Neb - Kestas is Australian. An English speaking nation.

@Bas - So I guess my use of "y'all" and "wanna" is "gonna" keep use from being allies? Your loss. I'm from Kentucky and gonna wanna and y'all are in the bluegrass dictionary.

@abge
Don't be too hostile toward me. This seemed like a pretty one-sided debate. I was only trying to generate discussion. As for your quotes, I was actually reading Bas's quote. I'm a lazy person and did not feel like going back a page and actually reading your words. But it is clear that one of your foundation arguments is based on power. This is, in essence, a supremacist argument as power has nothing to do with language choice.
@McChazza
I was not serious. I was giving suggestions.
@everybody else
It's difficult trying to argue the outnumbered side of an argument. What I said here by no means reflects my actual beliefs. I merely enjoy a good discussion.

And by the way, although it is probably against your Zionist-imperialist hegemony's rules to divulge true identities on here, I can tell you I am either a) Colonel Gaddafi or b) Charlie Sheen

@Jamiet I apologise from you Jamiet if I made you upset by arguing with a friend of yours. I dont blame you for defending him it is very loyal of yours to do so actually.

I dont have a secret agenda. I'm very clear in what I say I think and where I stand though my English is not perfect. I just made a simple deduction there. There are no puns in my speech but in his.

Yet this is actually an issue between him and me, and I personally say that I am not writing any more comments or replies about it as there is point in it and I kindly ask from others to continue sending replies -not regarding what abgemach or I said- but regarding the ORIGINAL title =3

@Neb - This is a private site and abgemacht is just expressing his personal opinion. The facts are these: English is spoken as the international language of businessk the site is an English site (Kestas is an Aussie and this is a .net not .de or .fr or .es or...); and as a private site, abge is allowed to have his opinion. He isn't threatening ot ban anyone. Fuck, dude, if people in various levels of power the aren't allowed to express their opinion, we may as well be doing fucking Nazi salutes right now.

@ Nebuchadnezzar: "@Jamiet I apologise from you Jamiet if I made you upset by arguing with a friend of yours. I dont blame you for defending him it is very loyal of yours to do so actually."

How dare you? How fucking dare you?!

Don't reduce this to the level of personal insults by suggesting that I only commented because abgemacht is my friend. He is not a personal acquaintance of mine in any way. I have never met him. I do not know him. I did not comment out of "loyalty" but because you were being an asshole. By suggesting that my comments were personally biased, you are being even more of an asshole. Asshole.

wow - Neb and JamieT are both too hormone-rich for me. I'll get back on here when they finish puberty, in about five years or so. G'night all. My identity remains a secret.

@Eden: I have a feeling you're one of the b******s slaughtering me in the gunboat, yes? ;)

Forgive me for intruding on what is a truly impressive argument, but there is a question I really must ask. Is =3 a version of :) that I've not encountered before, or is it some kind of phallic symbol?

Finally, a worthwhile question on this thread :)

@Jamiet: Chill. As neither side has directly initiated hostilities toward opponents, it would be unwise for you to start. He is making an argument, maybe becoming a little bit passionate about it. He was concerned about offending you and he apologizes. It was a well-intended statement.
@Octavious: I believe so.

It's actually a smiley face. It's the oft used kitty face from anime and manga.
It's meant to be cute or coy.

I've seen something similar come from systems that don't use CR/LF for new lines.