Yeah, that's what I'm saying, except most believers in god would tell me I don't

Who is God? Is he new?

"Enlightened Muslims I don't care, but Islam is a threat to humanity. It's a deeply fascist ideology from the Middle Ages and not a religion. In about 200 suras is called to murder against infidels. The IS is a series of disastrous US policy in the Middle East and North Africa by Obama and strengthened Islam in these countries. Europe currently pays a high price for the Geo ploitic of the US administration who live confidently behind the Atlantic far away. The alleged Arab Spring, which was a winter from the beginning, are now Ice Age and standstill. No room for these crazy enemies of mankind with an islam chip in there head!"


@strauss, you do realize you could replace like 5 words in that paragraph and be talking about any religion in the world, right?

@thucy

"Truth and love are the same thing."

What sort of ideological rant are you on, my friend? This doesn't sound like you. But you have surprised me before with having rather coherent foundations for your apparent incoherence, so please do explain.

@ssoren you're doing it entirely wrong.

Well you're the first to tell me that.

@semck:

"I don't know if religious beliefs are just "background," though. Sure, if somebody has left their faith, but I think that's a different statement than saying that you don't care about somebody's religious beliefs."

Well, since I'm an atheist...I don't view any religious belief as being one I think is true, so I don't care about them on that basis...

I have Catholic friends, Mormon friends, Jewish friends, Muslims, some different Protestant denominations in there, so I run the gamut. (And then of course I have atheist/agnostic friends, whom I list here separately since I don't like the view that somehow atheism = another religion...as atheism the non-belief in a deity/religion. And you know what I mean by that, let's not nitpick the dictionary definition.)

The point of all that being--yeah, when I hear my Catholic friends go on about their beliefs, or Mormon friends talk about theirs, or any group above talk about them...I think they're wrong and, if I'm honest, there are plenty of times where I personally find those beliefs silly (for example...I hear Mormon friends say what they believe about the Garden of Eden being located in America, or Jesus being in America, or Native Americans and Jews somehow being connected, and I sit there...these being some of the absolute nicest people I've ever met...and internally, I'm just, "WHAAAATTTTT?!?!?!" :p )

But that's me. There's plenty of stuff *I* do or say that's silly, and I'm sure they giggle internally at those things as well. (We can all think of examples of my saying something silly, I'm sure.) ;) In the same way someone can disagree with me on Shakespeare, I can disagree with them on things I don't agree with, and it's all good, just a background thing in our larger relationship.

Religious beliefs, when they're kept personal, are none of my business.

If someone makes their views public, and argues for something I disagree with on religious grounds--ie, against gay activism--then it becomes something more and not just a background element of our friendship.

To be unfair and pick on Mormonism again--because unlike my nice Mormon friends, I'm a prick--I said during the 2012 Presidential elections that, while normally I just accept the fact politicians need to be/claim Christian faith in order to get elected in the United States, and that normally that doesn't bother me, it *would* with Mitt Romney *BECAUSE* of what his religion specifically said about blacks being somehow "fallen" during the time in which he would've been growing up in that Church.

Given the fact that, you know, race is kinda-sorta a major deal in America now (has it never not been?) with recent events, that would impact whether or not I'd vote for a Mormon who sincerely believed that, NOT because of their religious belief in Jesus or an afterlife or any of that, but simply because viewing blacks as somehow being "fallen" might, you know, kinda-sorta-maybe color the way you view race relations and thereby alter policy decisions, and THAT is what I care about.

TL;DR:

If your religious views are personal and kept to yourself, unless they come up naturally in conversation, then it can be background with me, and be on the same level as what your ethnicity/ancestry is...being of Iranian ancestry with Persian relatives will color who you are, yeah, but it need not get in the way of anything.

If that religious belief leads you to make a public decision on public policy, however, and it's something I disagree with--ie, being anti-gay activism, being anti-Israel, supporting the teaching of intelligent design over evolution (I have friends who'd fit all three of these descriptions)--then it becomes more my business. It need not end the friendship, though, even then, unless it's something which is extremely egregious--again, you can be respectfully anti-Israel the same way I'm no fan of Iranian politicians, but if you side with, say, Hezbollah and Hamas and argue Jews in general should die, we're gonna have a pretty short friendship.

Your personal values may conflict with mine, but if they conflict to the extent that they wish to extinguish or destroy mine or those like me, then THAT is the step too far.

Even your TLDR summation is TLDR.

Obi collects friends like postcards. We all know this. He thinks all bigotry is acceptable except if you support Palestine.

Welcome to the thread, Putin.........

"but if you ... argue Jews in general should die, we're gonna have a pretty short friendship."

I'm opposed to immortality so yeah, I do argue that Jews in general should die, just like everyone else.

I'm sorry you oppose diversity, Putin--

And no, bigotry isn't acceptable.

And did you skip over the part where I said I have great friends who are anti-Israel?

Of course you did.

Actually...

Putin, if I change tact right now and say Vlad Putin's a wonderful person and the West is awful, can we then be the best of friends? It'll be great...you can continue to ignore the slaughters you want, and I'll just overlook them.

'Cause friendship.

And of course he came to the thread, bo_sox...

I posted.

Don't you know once I post, Putin just *HAS* to come along and continue his grudge against me?

It is nice to know there are people out there who care, though.

Best buddies to the end, Putin, you and I--United Forever in Friendship and Trolling...

"I'm opposed to immortality so yeah, I do argue that Jews in general should die, just like everyone else."

Well, obviously, oscar.

I just don't submit my friends to a pre-friendship questionnaire:

"Now, please list any and all groups you're a racist scumbag against, along with your half-assed reasons why."

Just saying that if a friend happened to say such a thing once they knew I was Jewish, that'd be it.

It'd be the same if--here we go, Putin, more postcard pal of mine, diversity's a bitch, I know--they met one of my African-American friends and called them the "n-word."

"He thinks all bigotry is acceptable except if you support Palestine."

I support Palestine AND Israel.
You support Palestine OR Israel.
You'd be fine seeing one whole nation destroyed, and millions suffer...
I'd like to see one whole nation created, and millions at peace.

You continue to take the divisive, warmongering approach of "Or."

Fits in well with Netanyahu (who you love SO much, right?)

I'll take "and," and push for the two-state solution, and push those who oppose it to the side, INCLUDING that warmongering fool Netanyahu AND Hamas leadership.

And to conclude:

Care to actually say something on the topic, Putin, or did you just come here to be petty and take pot shots at me?

That's fine, of course, I'd just like to know if you actually have something to say which is on-topic, or if you posted specifically because you're a petty vindictive pathetic prick of a person with nothing better to do and no interest in actually engaging in conversation?

I think you forgot to mention how many women you're friends with.

Slacking, Obiwan.

STILL not talking about the topic of the thread, are you, Putin?

So you ARE here just to get your cleanse on and be vindictive towards me?

OK then. Do what you've gotta do.

Don't mind us, we'll just be over here actually sticking to a topic without devolving into a flame war. When you're finished getting your mapleleaf on, come and join us.

How is the demographics of your collection of friends off topic? You brought it up. Are you saying you're not staying on topic?

Any Muslim that can tolerate Putin and obiwan publicly getting off on manhandling each other is okay in my book.

Oh nice a gay joke. Haven't heard one of those in a while.

I see nothing virtuous about being friends with people with strong religious beliefs. Acquaintances whom I'm on pleasant terms with fine. Colleagues fine. But people with whom I want to spend time on a regular basis? No.

Are you calling me a gay joke?

Your words, not mine.

Putin, are you saying that is the opposite of virtuous (bad) to be friends with people with strong religious beliefs, or simply that it is not virtuous in and of itself?

absurd that a thread like this has to devolve into a conversation about Israel-Palestine. Absurd, but so predictable. Assuming Obi was the idiot that did it, but I don't have the energy to read and confirm.

We had meaningful discussion... Star Trek...

Not virtuous in and of itself. Especially as such friendships are likely to involve a lot of phoniness and condescension, at some level. Hard to imagine a lot of earnest friendships between people of polar opposite worldviews. Sure, you can have friends who you debate heatedly with and then go out and have a beer with them, but why do you want to spend your time with people you argue with on a constant basis? And if you manage to avoid argument, why do you want to spend time with people you can't speak freely around?

"I see nothing virtuous about being friends with people with strong religious beliefs. Acquaintances whom I'm on pleasant terms with fine. Colleagues fine. But people with whom I want to spend time on a regular basis? No."

People with strong religious beliefs are delusional. They deserve treatment and compassion just like people with any other psychological disorder. You should approach them carefully of course, since the condition seems to be somewhat contagious, but just treating them as lepers is both cruel and counterproductive.

Most conversations I have with my friends don't revolve around religion...