Today's Bible reading is Luke 19, with Jesus reaching out to Zacchaeus, "a notorious sinner," and declaring that he was saved; the triumphant entry into Jerusalem, and Jesus weeping over the city and lamenting the choices they had made.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Luk&c=19

Here's the part where he weeps over Jerusalem:

41 But as he came closer to Jerusalem and saw the city ahead, he began to weep. 42 “How I wish today that you of all people would understand the way to peace. But now it is too late, and peace is hidden from your eyes. 43 Before long your enemies will build ramparts against your walls and encircle you and close in on you from every side. 44 They will crush you into the ground, and your children with you. Your enemies will not leave a single stone in place, because you did not accept your opportunity for salvation.”

@Crazy and Mujus (not necessarily in that order), your earlier posts have just come to light throgh an archeological dig.
Why do people respond to your thread?
1. If you want to talk about this stuff, why not go to a religious forum? They're desperate for people like you.
2. This is an international site with people of all religious proclivities.
3. Most peoples have been brought up in the earliest parts of their lives under some kind of religious instruction. Whatever religion. (We practised Patagonian Atheism with a Godhead. Figure it.) They eventually find their own way. If you start putting such sectarian stuff up here, it's going to kick up memories which members may not want to be reminded of.
4. Answer to your question, "Why do people want to kick our ass? Well, it must need kicked, mustn't it?
Think on!

Unfortunately, you're going to wake up one day and realise all this bullshit isn;t going to get you to Heaven or, actually, anywhere at all

Actually, I'm not a satanist. Just a linguist and, I hope, realist.
*Nice* to meet you, kids.

"Donkeys aren't people, you know. ;-) "
You just make yourself more despicable. Is that your intention?

You give the grades they deserve.

A professor gives the deserved grade. End of story.

However, some people are donkeys, Mujus, Amalakite or not.

Timur, you probably missed the "DONKEYS AREN'T PEOPLE" all caps announcement by Obiwan, which I was playing off of. And hey, if you don't want to be reminded of religion, you have the right not to open these threads--but it's lame to try to squash everyone else's right to promote/debate beliefs ranging from atheism to paganism to yes, Christianity.

@ Timur

“1. If you want to talk about this stuff, why not go to a religious forum?”
I think this is pretty obvious there. I like playing Diplomacy. There’s a social forum & a guy who wants to discuss his Bible readings. Being kind of a supportive person, Sure why not. It’s not like the guy is hurting anybody in even the remotest sense. He’s even muting people, so he doesn’t have to listen to them. You on the other hand could mute him and not have to listen to him, but instead assert that he has somehow this just isn’t the place to discuss things like that. The nerve, adults have the right to decide what to say and where. You have come here and said your piece; that doesn’t mean that you’re right, nor that anyone should agree with you, but you had the right to speak none the less. I’m not telling you to be silent, but I am telling you that I refuse to allow you to badger others into silence. Really? Your stance amounts to “Go away if you’re going to talk religion”, if you’ve been told anything similar about criticizing religion I doubt it was leave the website to do it. Perhaps you were told “Hey this thread is supposed to be about Bible reading, would you go to another thread if you’re going to distract us”

@ Timur again,

“2. This is an international site with people of all religious proclivities.”


Yes, and one of those religious proclivities is Christianity. There are no second class citizens here, or there shouldn’t be.

@ Timur again, again,

“3. Most peoples have been brought up in the earliest parts of their lives under some kind of religious instruction. Whatever religion. (We practised Patagonian Atheism with a Godhead. Figure it.) They eventually find their own way. If you start putting such sectarian stuff up here, it's going to kick up memories which members may not want to be reminded of.”



That’s you’re point? I shouldn’t speak of religion because it might bring up bad memories? That’s kind of an odd position to take. Certainly religion isn’t the only subject that might bring up bad memories. I would think that there were people on the site that might have had bad experiences with sex and relationships. Should we be silent about those subjects too?

@ Timur finally

"4. Answer to your question, 'Why do people want to kick our ass?' Well, it must need kicked, mustn't it?"

100% pure class there, Bud :-)

@ Timur (sorry for the repost but formatting was bad on first one)

“1. If you want to talk about this stuff, why not go to a religious forum?”


I think this is pretty obvious there. I like playing Diplomacy. There’s a social forum & a guy who wants to discuss his Bible readings. Being kind of a supportive person, Sure why not. It’s not like the guy is hurting anybody in even the remotest sense. He’s even muting people, so he doesn’t have to listen to them. You on the other hand could mute him and not have to listen to him, but instead assert that somehow this just isn’t the place to discuss things like that. The nerve, adults have the right to decide what to say and where. You have come here and said your piece; that doesn’t mean that you’re right. Nor that anyone should agree with you, but you had the right to speak none the less. I’m not telling you to be silent, but I am telling you that I refuse to allow you to badger others into silence.


Really? Your stance amounts to “Go away if you’re going to talk religion”, if you’ve been told anything similar about criticizing religion I doubt it was leave the website to do it. Perhaps you were told “Hey this thread is supposed to be about Bible reading, would you go to another thread if you’re going to distract us”

Ok, Crazy, I've had my say. Now I'll bow out gracefully and leave you all to your religiobabble.
See you at 'The Last Trump' - the cool pub just round the corner. You must know it. Bring a halo. Required dress. Otherwise they kick you out and you end up having to go to 'Hell's Kitchen' or 'The Devil's Beeftub'. Neither is particularly cool.

Last word. You should try the red wine at 'The Last Trump'; it's really awe-inspiring. Don't know where they get it from, though. Never see any delivered. Must have a magician in the cellar. See you there!

Thanks Timur

and I look forward to that drink :-)

Today's Bible reading is Luke Chapter 20, in which Jesus answers the challenges of three groups of religious leaders and asks them difficult questions in return.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Luk&c=20&v=1&t=NLT#1

Full text:
The Authority of Jesus Challenged
1 One day as Jesus was teaching the people and preaching the Good News in the Temple, the leading priests, the teachers of religious law, and the elders came up to him. 2 They demanded, “By what authority are you doing all these things? Who gave you the right?”
3 “Let me ask you a question first,” he replied. 4 “Did John’s authority to baptize come from heaven, or was it merely human?”
5 They talked it over among themselves. “If we say it was from heaven, he will ask why we didn’t believe John. 6 But if we say it was merely human, the people will stone us because they are convinced John was a prophet.” 7 So they finally replied that they didn’t know.
8 And Jesus responded, “Then I won’t tell you by what authority I do these things.”
Parable of the Evil Farmers
9 Now Jesus turned to the people again and told them this story: “A man planted a vineyard, leased it to tenant farmers, and moved to another country to live for several years. 10 At the time of the grape harvest, he sent one of his servants to collect his share of the crop. But the farmers attacked the servant, beat him up, and sent him back empty-handed. 11 So the owner sent another servant, but they also insulted him, beat him up, and sent him away empty-handed. 12 A third man was sent, and they wounded him and chased him away.
13 “‘What will I do?’ the owner asked himself. ‘I know! I’ll send my cherished son. Surely they will respect him.’
14 “But when the tenant farmers saw his son, they said to each other, ‘Here comes the heir to this estate. Let’s kill him and get the estate for ourselves!’ 15 So they dragged him out of the vineyard and murdered him.
“What do you suppose the owner of the vineyard will do to them?” Jesus asked. 16 “I’ll tell you—he will come and kill those farmers and lease the vineyard to others.”
“How terrible that such a thing should ever happen,” his listeners protested.
17 Jesus looked at them and said, “Then what does this Scripture mean?
‘The stone that the builders rejected
has now become the cornerstone.’ [fn1]
18 Everyone who stumbles over that stone will be broken to pieces, and it will crush anyone it falls on.”
19 The teachers of religious law and the leading priests wanted to arrest Jesus immediately because they realized he was telling the story against them—they were the wicked farmers. But they were afraid of the people’s reaction.
Taxes for Caesar
20 Watching for their opportunity, the leaders sent spies pretending to be honest men. They tried to get Jesus to say something that could be reported to the Roman governor so he would arrest Jesus. 21 “Teacher,” they said, “we know that you speak and teach what is right and are not influenced by what others think. You teach the way of God truthfully. 22 Now tell us—is it right for us to pay taxes to Caesar or not?”
23 He saw through their trickery and said, 24 “Show me a Roman coin. [fn2] Whose picture and title are stamped on it?”
“Caesar’s,” they replied.
25 “Well then,” he said, “give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God.”
26 So they failed to trap him by what he said in front of the people. Instead, they were amazed by his answer, and they became silent.
Discussion about Resurrection
27 Then Jesus was approached by some Sadducees—religious leaders who say there is no resurrection from the dead. 28 They posed this question: “Teacher, Moses gave us a law that if a man dies, leaving a wife but no children, his brother should marry the widow and have a child who will carry on the brother’s name. [fn3] 29 Well, suppose there were seven brothers. The oldest one married and then died without children. 30 So the second brother married the widow, but he also died. 31 Then the third brother married her. This continued with all seven of them, who died without children. 32 Finally, the woman also died. 33 So tell us, whose wife will she be in the resurrection? For all seven were married to her!”
34 Jesus replied, “Marriage is for people here on earth. 35 But in the age to come, those worthy of being raised from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage. 36 And they will never die again. In this respect they will be like angels. They are children of God and children of the resurrection.
37 “But now, as to whether the dead will be raised—even Moses proved this when he wrote about the burning bush. Long after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had died, he referred to the Lord [fn4] as ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ [fn5] 38 So he is the God of the living, not the dead, for they are all alive to him.”
39 “Well said, Teacher!” remarked some of the teachers of religious law who were standing there. 40 And then no one dared to ask him any more questions.
Whose Son Is the Messiah?
41 Then Jesus presented them with a question. “Why is it,” he asked, “that the Messiah is said to be the son of David? 42 For David himself wrote in the book of Psalms:
‘The LORD said to my Lord,
Sit in the place of honor at my right hand
43 until I humble your enemies,
making them a footstool under your feet.’ [fn6]
44 Since David called the Messiah ‘Lord,’ how can the Messiah be his son?”
45 Then, with the crowds listening, he turned to his disciples and said, 46 “Beware of these teachers of religious law! For they like to parade around in flowing robes and love to receive respectful greetings as they walk in the marketplaces. And how they love the seats of honor in the synagogues and the head table at banquets. 47 Yet they shamelessly cheat widows out of their property and then pretend to be pious by making long prayers in public. Because of this, they will be severely punished.”

Footnotes:
20:17 Ps 118:22.
20:24 Greek a denarius.
20:28 See Deut 25:5-6.
20:37 Greek when he wrote about the bush. He referred to the Lord.
20:37 Exod 3:6.
20:42-43 Ps 110:1.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tools/printerFriendly.cfm?b=Luk&c=20&t=NLTP&x=11&y=8

"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar."

From today's reading: 9 Now Jesus turned to the people again and told them this story: “A man planted a vineyard, leased it to tenant farmers, and moved to another country to live for several years. 10 At the time of the grape harvest, he sent one of his servants to collect his share of the crop. But the farmers attacked the servant, beat him up, and sent him back empty-handed. 11 So the owner sent another servant, but they also insulted him, beat him up, and sent him away empty-handed. 12 A third man was sent, and they wounded him and chased him away.
13 “‘What will I do?’ the owner asked himself. ‘I know! I’ll send my cherished son. Surely they will respect him.’
14 “But when the tenant farmers saw his son, they said to each other, ‘Here comes the heir to this estate. Let’s kill him and get the estate for ourselves!’ 15 So they dragged him out of the vineyard and murdered him.
“What do you suppose the owner of the vineyard will do to them?” Jesus asked. 16 “I’ll tell you—he will come and kill those farmers and lease the vineyard to others.”
“How terrible that such a thing should ever happen,” his listeners protested.

Here's that complete chapter, Putin, which makes it very clear that Jesus is condemning the hypocritical religious leaders and teachers of his day, and not Jews in general, of which he was one! Of course we know that some religious teachers eventually came to him, such as Nicodemus, so this is a general condemnation rather than 100%, and applies to anybody who is a hypocrite. Read on:

Jesus Criticizes the Religious Leaders
1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The teachers of religious law and the Pharisees are the official interpreters of the law of Moses. [fn1] 3 So practice and obey whatever they tell you, but don’t follow their example. For they don’t practice what they teach. 4 They crush people with unbearable religious demands and never lift a finger to ease the burden.
5 “Everything they do is for show. On their arms they wear extra wide prayer boxes with Scripture verses inside, and they wear robes with extra long tassels. [fn2] 6 And they love to sit at the head table at banquets and in the seats of honor in the synagogues. 7 They love to receive respectful greetings as they walk in the marketplaces, and to be called ‘Rabbi.’ [fn3]
8 “Don’t let anyone call you ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one teacher, and all of you are equal as brothers and sisters. [fn4] 9 And don’t address anyone here on earth as ‘Father,’ for only God in heaven is your spiritual Father. 10 And don’t let anyone call you ‘Teacher,’ for you have only one teacher, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you must be a servant. 12 But those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.
13 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either. [fn5]
15 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell [fn6] you yourselves are!
16 “Blind guides! What sorrow awaits you! For you say that it means nothing to swear ‘by God’s Temple,’ but that it is binding to swear ‘by the gold in the Temple.’ 17 Blind fools! Which is more important—the gold or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 And you say that to swear ‘by the altar’ is not binding, but to swear ‘by the gifts on the altar’ is binding. 19 How blind! For which is more important—the gift on the altar or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 When you swear ‘by the altar,’ you are swearing by it and by everything on it. 21 And when you swear ‘by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. 22 And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne.
23 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, [fn7] but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things. 24 Blind guides! You strain your water so you won’t accidentally swallow a gnat, but you swallow a camel! [fn8]
25 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are so careful to clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but inside you are filthy—full of greed and self-indulgence! 26 You blind Pharisee! First wash the inside of the cup and the dish, [fn9] and then the outside will become clean, too.
27 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs—beautiful on the outside but filled on the inside with dead people’s bones and all sorts of impurity. 28 Outwardly you look like righteous people, but inwardly your hearts are filled with hypocrisy and lawlessness.
29 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you build tombs for the prophets your ancestors killed, and you decorate the monuments of the godly people your ancestors destroyed. 30 Then you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would never have joined them in killing the prophets.’
31 “But in saying that, you testify against yourselves that you are indeed the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead and finish what your ancestors started. 33 Snakes! Sons of vipers! How will you escape the judgment of hell?
34 “Therefore, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers of religious law. But you will kill some by crucifixion, and you will flog others with whips in your synagogues, chasing them from city to city. 35 As a result, you will be held responsible for the murder of all godly people of all time—from the murder of righteous Abel to the murder of Zechariah son of Barachiah, whom you killed in the Temple between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 I tell you the truth, this judgment will fall on this very generation.
Jesus Grieves over Jerusalem
37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God’s messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn’t let me. 38 And now, look, your house is abandoned and desolate. [fn10] 39 For I tell you this, you will never see me again until you say, ‘Blessings on the one who comes in the name of the LORD!’ [fn11] ”

Footnotes:
23:2
Greek and the Pharisees sit in the seat of Moses.
23:5
Greek They enlarge their phylacteries and lengthen their tassels.
23:7
Rabbi, from Aramaic, means “master” or “teacher.”
23:8
Greek brothers.
23:13
Some manuscripts add verse 14, What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! You shamelessly cheat widows out of their property and then pretend to be pious by making long prayers in public. Because of this, you will be severely punished.

Compare Mark 12:40 and Luke 20:47.
23:15 Greek of Gehenna; also in 23:33.
23:23 Greek tithe the mint, the dill, and the cumin.
23:24 See Lev 11:4, 23, where gnats and camels are both forbidden as food.
23:26 Some manuscripts do not include and the dish.
23:38 Some manuscripts do not include and desolate.
23:39 Ps 118:26.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mat&c=23&v=33&t=NLT#33

Sorry for the late reference. I don't want to be accused of plagiarism!

"Here's that complete chapter, Putin, which makes it very clear that Jesus is condemning the hypocritical religious leaders and teachers of his day, and not Jews in general, of which he was one!"

He was clearly condemning all Pharisees.

Also, this section here gives away the game:

"31 “But in saying that, you testify against yourselves that you are indeed the descendants of those who murdered the prophets."

How could the Pharisees be descendants of prophet-murderers, but not Jews generally? He's essentially calling all Jews descendants of Cain.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+27%3A24-25&version=KJV

His blood be upon us, and on our children...

First of all, he's talking to Jews when he warns against the examples of the Pharisees and religious teachers--against their behavior, but not against their teaching. He clearly addresses "this generation" of Pharisees and religious teachers of the law, specifically those who are hypocrites. Jesus often called people who rejected God children of "your father, the devil," so again, it's not physical descent, but who your spiritual father is--God or the devil--that's at issue. So admit that your point has been soundly defeated.

Ummm...I sort of lost track, I went to go answer something for CA and lost track here...

Did anyone ever say how that passage from 1 Samuel (killing all the men...and women...and children...and donkeys...just because they didn't believe in the person who created them) is moral, and why on Earth a moral God would order genocide, much less infanticide, much LESS even killing the animals (I say it again--what the HELL did the poor donkeys do? I think someone said they were to be killed so the Israelites wouldn't take them as a reward...but if that was the case, why not just leave them be, it's not like they're a threat...and as God was furious the king and some livestock was spared, WHY, if Saul was to spare anyone, he didn't spare the poor murdered babies?)

Sorry, that's still bugging me...

Today's Bible reading is Luke Chapter 21
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Luk&c=21&v=1&t=NLT

Obi, that bugs me too. Tell you what, why don't you scroll up and see if you want to respond to any of those replies instead of just repeating the same objections.