I don't think humanity is inconsequential even if you believe all of the picture painted by science. We are alone the most sentient species we are aware of in all the universe with the fate of our spontaneously created ideas (not from nature) and other animals in our foreseeable hands. We are all Gods.

It's not inconsequential in the slightest within the scope of our immediate lives. When it comes to the grander questions of the purpose of everything that exists in the universe though, I'm fairly convinced that the human mind actively tries to attribute a grander purpose for itself as an intellectual instinct, and following that instinct can lead to religious convictions. I believe that such convictions are a veil over the eyes rather than a lens into the truth.

@Octavious: No. I developed object permanance somewhere around the age of two.

@Draug: freaky :)

Jesus Christ none of you understood what I was driving at, especially not God. Do keep in kind I'm not finished.

Anyway, let's pick up where you dropped off YJ.

In what way does a rock meaningfully exist as distinct from the rest of the universe? Isnt its existence an external imposition and meaningless in objective reality?

Do you accept that the evolution of computer technology must necessarily lead to hyper-intelligent "non-living" intellects? And further, do you accept that such an occurrence could already have occurred, and that you are a Free Will element inside a life simulation conducted by a 'pre-school" level hyper-intelligent machine construct, who will, indeed, grant intellectual permanence to any Free Will programming element that agrees with the premise of belief as said hyper-intelligent technological construct has dictated?

Especially not Draugnar* lmao Freudian skip?? Pahahaha

No krellin I don't think we're in the matrix.

I think what your objection is likely to be YJ is that the substance that makes up the rock is certainly there, and so that substance exists independently of external impositions of identity as a rock. I should respond directly to that I think.

In what meaningful way does substance exist without being identified as substance? You can talk about object permanence diminutively and indeed I also believe in object permanence. But in a direct, truly objective way, without applying any dogmas whatsoever, (of which the concept of "object permanence" is one) can it truly be said that something that cannot be identified exists? Because the rock cannot be identified. Still less can it's substance. Show me where it is, and I will show you empty space. It exists only as much as the whole of the universe exists, but in itself? It has no identity and its existence is an illusion. It might be helpful if you knew the difference between monism and dualism but I don't want to start deploying jargon whose connotations I don't really substance to anyway.

@y2k

You seem one of those who unnecessarily closes his mind to real possibilities:

http://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.html

I didn't ask if you think we are in the matrix. I asked if you can accept the premise that computers will become hyper-intelligent And if you agree that it is possible we are in the matrix...not whether or not you think we are.

Don't subscribe to anyway*

On the contrary, I believe very little absolutely and am always reconsidering the meaning of things and life and the purpose of everything, etc. Isn't it the devout that are too convinced in their religious convictions to be open to alternative explanations to the great questions?

I accept that I may be in the matrix. I choose to not believe it.

y2k - whether or not you believe something absolutely has little to do with believing in possibilities. Very big difference there.

"I'm fairly convinced that the human mind actively tries to attribute a grander purpose for itself as an intellectual instinct"

Based upon what? That's a pretty big assumption to make.

Well good then, y2k. I hope you are prepared to consider the possibility that the mystery of existence is itself a conveyor of profound (dare I say mystical) meaning

@Synapse: based on self-reflection about what my mind thinks, and what I see others do and claim to think/believe? Do you not rationalize your existence and reach for higher meaning and purpose in your life? Most people do exactly that on a regular basis.

@krellin: I'm not following your point? I guess I believe it's possible that we're in the matrix. I guess I believe it's possible there is a supreme creator that made humanity in his image. I guess I believe it's possible there is extraterrestrial life somewhere within a reasonable amount of light years from earth. These are all the possibilities that make up the possible answers to the great questions. What's the point you're making?

Sorry, Thucy. I hadn't read your ob'issive, so made an invalid assumption. My only excuse was I was at the eye doctor and not exactly reading long posts as the eyes were being dilated. Now I see what you are saying - I think... Borders and boundaries of what we call a rock or atmosphere or even a planet are really altered by our perception as we are all just stardust )to paraphrase Moby).

Right, it you investigate something long enough it begins to lose its definition as Socrates taught us so long ago.

And yet, some things seem to exist nevertheless. Reality itself appears on face value to exist. And so too do I.

@Synapse: based on self-reflection about what my mind thinks, and what I see others do and claim to think/believe? Do you not rationalize your existence and reach for higher meaning and purpose in your life? Most people do exactly that on a regular basis.

Why do you assume that your mind equates to everybody elses? Do I rationalise my existence? Yes. But what makes you think that that is a false rationalisation ie. something generated by the brain rather than absorbed by it from nature?

God spelt backwards is dog. Jesus was hairy like a dog. Coincidence?

Because too many times I see people believing what they want to believe. Hell, I sometimes start believing things because I want them to be true, but once I realize that my desire to believe it is driving the belief, my skeptical nature kicks in and puts the belief in check. The brain isn't subconsciously rationalizing your life and the world to find truth, it's doing it to establish a fulfilling purpose/reason for its existence. You look at all these stories of various people living in desolate situations around the world, and you think, "How could this person live under these conditions? How do they possibly survive? How do they find any purpose in their life when they constantly feel they are getting the short stick in all facets of life?" The brain finds a way. And the brain isn't finding truth. It's finding comfort and understanding in any way possible to give them purpose to keep going. For many, that purpose becomes religious, but it doesn't have to be. I'm not equating the thoughts that people have, but I am equating the purpose and survival measures surrounding those thoughts. We all need a reason to do what we do and live our life. It's how you get out of bed every day. And because I see this generally universal approach to self-reflection and living life among people from all walks of life, from all religions and all perspectives, I come to attribute these thoughts to survival instincts rather than truth.

Believing what they want to believe, like that humans are insignificant and delusional.

"I sometimes start believing things because I want them to be true, but once I realize that my desire to believe it is driving the belief, my skeptical nature kicks in and puts the belief in check."

This speaks of your own self-doubt not the authenticity of your thoughts.

"The brain finds a way."

Or there is a way.

You haven't told me anything substantial to say that what you have witnessed IS related to a survival instinct as opposed to some kind of truth.

Yes I agree that we all simply believe what we want to believe. I also agree that reason is and ought to be the slave of the passions and that Meaning precedes Truth.

Knowing that, why should I feel ashamed by my choice to see the interconnectedness of everything as divinity? The dignity of humans as divinity? The sense of the transcendent as an intuition? These things suggest themselves. If they be untrue, fine. I always knew I could be wrong. I see no reason to chain myself to meaninglessness for the sake of some more precise truth, because indeed as I have said, Truth capital T is inapprehensible anyway, and I understand that truth only matters in the first place because of meaning and value.

When I first started to work through these issues I was an agnostic materialist who chose for the sake of simple happiness to pursue ethics and egalitarianism as a source of inherent fulfillment. But as I have gone along in attempt to live this belief, I have begun to see that ethics itself is a kind of religion, and that so too is epistemology or investigation, as Thoreau (and many religious/spiritual scientists) all well know.

There is no denying of reality to be done. There is a stark but cheerful embrace of it, as it is, humanity and all.

To claim that this anthropometric view is arrogant is A) wrong since half my worldview (maybe more than half) is mystified by the Universe entire, and B) itself an arrogant claim, because to pretend to know the ultimately significance of human consciousness, agency, and transcendence pretends to a kind of knowledge I expressly do not claim. To know the significance of one thing is only possible by knowing the whole to which the thing is connected in its entirety, which is never something I will pretend to. As I have already indicated - everything must be subjected to doubt.

By summoning, we vibrate.

To embark on the circuit is to become one with it. You and I are beings of the cosmos.

Eons from now, we adventurers will live like never before as we are reborn by the planet.

We are in the midst of a mystical flowering of rejuvenation that will enable us to access the galaxy itself. Throughout history, humans have been interacting with the quantum cycle via molecular structures. Reality has always been bursting with adventurers whose hopes are transformed into passion.


As you dream, you will enter into infinite ecstasy that transcends understanding. You will soon be recreated by a power deep within yourself — a power that is higher, spatial. Ayurvedic medicine may be the solution to what’s holding you back from an ecstatic flow of wonder.

Nothing is impossible. The goal of electromagnetic forces is to plant the seeds of inseparability rather than pain. This life is nothing short of an unveiling uprising of powerful empathy.

Inseparability is the nature of wisdom, and of us.
Through ayurvedic medicine, our essences are engulfed in transformation. We believe, we grow, we are reborn. Today, science tells us that the essence of nature is choice.

Nature is the driver of wellbeing. We exist as transmissions. The stratosphere is radiating sub-atomic particles.

Eden's been into the 'shrooms again...

We exist as ultra-sentient particles.

Nothing is impossible. By unveiling, we reflect.

Visitor, look within and change yourself.

Yes, it is possible to extinguish the things that can extinguish us, but not without conscious living on our side. Materialism is the antithesis of potential. You must take a stand against stagnation.


You and I are adventurers of the infinite. Rejuvenation is the growth of fulfillment, and of us. The solar system is aglow with electrical impulses.

The future will be an angelic condensing of complexity. Soon there will be an unfolding of knowledge the likes of which the dreamscape has never seen. The network of energy is now happening worldwide.

Only a wanderer of the cosmos may leverage this oasis of love.
Our conversations with other beings have led to a condensing of pseudo-primordial consciousness. Humankind has nothing to lose. We are in the midst of a technological condensing of guidance that will open up the infinite itself.

We self-actualize, we vibrate, we are reborn. Knowledge requires exploration. Understanding is the driver of intuition.

Holy shit, that's the answer!

What word jumble pseudo poetry / philosophy program are you using to generate this dribble.