@ghug … what is your case against me? Stop pushing me if you aren't actually going to push me. It's useless pressure, it doesn't make me show any cards.
@uclabb … was what I said wrong? We'll be able to see coaching in Toemato's case just like we could in Lucland's. Even if it occurs during the day, it'll be obvious. You just have to keep an eye out. If Toemato is mafia, waiting until he shows that he was coached is the way we're going to get him, so I don't see what your issue with that remark was.
@DL … I have held the position that townies should do anything to save themselves because they know they are townies and shouldn't resign to dying for a long time. I don't know if I have posted it in the past, but it's always my mindset since people in the first couple games I played on this site told me that townies should go quietly to avoid confusing the PRs, as if they are dumb enough to immediately counter a fake claim anyway. I don't know why anyone would resign to dying in this game. If you have the opportunity to push the vote off of yourself, knowing you are town, and push it onto someone else who may be mafia, I see no reason why one wouldn't do that without hesitation.
As for not taking out a contributor even if their posts are shitty (convoluted and falsified, as I said before), we shouldn't do that on D1. We should do that later. It will become more evident that their posts are convoluted and falsified over future days, and if they are mafia playing badly on D1, they're going to keep giving us more and more to go off of as they go. It's actually a good strategy for town to keep the loudmouthed-yet-reckless mafia type alive for a little while so that they can not only expose themselves but maybe expose some of their teammates in the process. That's why I am wholeheartedly against taking out big talkers on D1, unless, like last game, it's a guaranteed scum lynch. We don't have anything that easy this game, though.
Also, Yoyo hates me because I tunnel him. We go back. I know he'll be scum one of these days and I'm gonna kick his ass when he is.
You want to know what I see as coaching? Go back and look at Lucland in M10. Jeff and I coached him up. At a certain point, I made a case against him on the basis of coaching. That is the type of coaching I am looking for. With someone as clueless as Lucland was or Toemato is, there is always going to be that one post where they get coached hard, but they're just not great players, so they don't know how to hide that. They simply do what their teammates told them to do, and often times, their play style and, in Lucland's case, writing style comes off way differently.
In other times, I've seen people coached into making a decent case against someone when they were totally clueless as to how to scumhunt before, which Toemato is. Sometimes, like in goldfinger's case a couple of games ago, mafia tells the clueless one to shut up and lurk. That's harder to spot because Toemato is lurking already, but if he simply stops trying (which, in my mind, he was early on) and only sneaks in some random remark every so often to meet his post count, that could be what you see.
I voted for SS on both policy since he hasn't done shit and because I find his play fairly scummy thus far, mostly on the basis that he's simply not playing like him. I didn't explicitly say that it was a policy vote, but that was part of it. Y2k was right when he said that policies should not be based on lurking alone. I gave a list of people who I thought were lurking in a scummy way earlier and others who I simply thought were lurking as well. It wasn't a full list, but it was who I thought of off the top of my head.
If I had to give a current list of who I would be willing to policy for scummy-lurking, I would support a lynch of the following:
SS, DO, OB, Balki (he's here, but not doing shit)
Others who I think are lurking, maybe scummy but maybe not, tough to say since they're lurking:
guak, meme, Espi, Toemato, Maniac (again, here but not doing shit, just not overly scummy), uclabb
Given that there is literally zero traction for a policy right now, which annoys the hell out of me, I don't really care to go after them for it anymore, which is why I have moved on to pushing damian/Balki for their interactions today as opposed to a policy.
I agree that ghug's non-case was and is total shit. I don't know what he's doing, but in certain spots, he doesn't seem like himself to me. In others, he acts exactly as I would expect. Something to think about another day, though. I don't have the amount of time I need to go back and reread him, I have class in 20 minutes and then work at the deadline.
OB's entire read post sucked. I don't know what he was doing. I'm not mafia, so I can't explain it.
@damian … Balki has been buddying you. I already pointed that out earlier. You had to do something about that, so you voted for him, not in such a way that would condemn him to death because he's probably an important role and you don't want him dead immediately, but in a way that would make sure you aren't holding hands and dancing in flower fields for the entire D1. Moreover, you didn't even vote for him because you thought he was scummy, you voted for him because you thought we could gain a lot of information if the vote comes together around him, saying that reactions to the wagon will determine its validity. I see that as you saying "don't bus yet, let someone else be stupid." It's coaching.
You then cast your own vote, which was stupid, because you gave zero reasoning for it other than to speed up the formation of a bandwagon. Why? Why does it matter how quickly the wagon forms? You are basing your case off of *how* the wagon forms, not how quickly it takes off. There is no reason to make that process quicker.
Your last sentence screams at me. You say that you don't think the wagon is started by mafia, which is great, but you also say that, simply because you don't think y2k is mafia, you don't think that your vote is playing into the mafia's hands. First of all, why even say that? There's no reason to say that. Second of all, how aren't you playing into the mafia's hands by creating an easy bandwagon for them to play around with? They can either all avoid it or jump all over it. They can do something in between. They have an encryptor; they can tell each other what to do. They'll be planning it together.
This post is in the middle of page 15, for those that didn't see it.
The Art of Correspondence ... out in hardback
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