" It's amazing how I no longer want what I used to crave constantly. " And there in lies my view of sex. I don't get it and have little desire for it. So a low libido, maybe. But youu originally indicated you thought I had no libido. If one day my wife said "Hey, take me now", I'd be all over her!

"Have sex every day for 3 weeks, without having orgasm."

Hey Erist, what do you think would be the result? I imagine I would be a walking hard-on who is always staring at my woman's butt, but that might also make me more intimate in general. Now I want to try this experiment.

@ Fasces:

"I think most people should agree that it is immoral. Its called NSFW for a reason."

What? I don't get the logic here at all. Are you saying that anything you're not allowed at work is therefore immoral?

I'm not allowed to wear jeans and trainers at work. Does that make jeans and trainers immoral? What are you on about?


@ erist: "already know plenty of guys who would sort of half admit that... they preferred masturbating to porn than sex with a partner"

Wow, that's sad for them. I view quite a bit of porn and for me, real sex is still so much better. Maybe it's just me, but for me actual sex contains so many things that porn, being essentially purely visual stimulation, cannot give me. Like:

1. Actual physical stimulation. Yes you can obviously physically stimulate yourself with your hand or one of those weird, creepy male sex toys, while viewing porn, but that cannot possibly rival the experience of being able to run your hands all over a woman's body, or kiss her, and so on, not to mention the things that she is able to do to you. That stuff is wonderful and porn doesn't give you that.

2. Intimacy. The sheer joy of knowing that you're giving pleasure to someone you love, or are fond of. Knowing that they get that joy from the pleasure they can give to you. Bonding in a way that no other element of friendship or relationship can really get close to. Porn certainly doesn't give you that.

3. Just the actual "realness" of it. Porn is good, but it's not the real thing. Looking at a picture of a pretty girl with jizz on her face is pleasant. Looking at a pretty girl with *your* jizz on her face because you just jizzed in her face? That's on another planet.

Porn is nice but real sex - when it's *good* sex - cannot be beaten.

sex is like pizza...

even when it's not very good, it's still pretty good

@Thucy,
I dunno, I've had some lousy sex in my day, and some truly regrettable pizza.

But even regrettable pizza is better than a picture or a movie of pizza.

HYPOCRITES!!! Damn you people you piss me off. For days on end all we read on the top thread was about RAPE CULTURE...and here we have a pron discussion with many of the very same actors. Oh sure, some of you said you don't like porn anymore because of some TED talk (haven't watched ...will watch later..) but seriously? Not one of you fucktards had the balls to come out and say "Porn is *bad* because it is generally pretty abusive to the women involved". Sure...they are there "by choice", but what put them in the position to make that choice? Often times it's because of their shitty, sexually-abusive life prior to porn.

Anyway, it's pretty fucking ironic that all your dickwads that have such a hard-on for accusing everyone for participating in a rape culture are now at best saying "porn isn't for me (anymore)...but hell, nothing wrong with it is you like it..." and we all know all of you that are adding "anymore" to "it's not for me" are liars...

Further, while you all cite "lower rape" as a result of porn, you ALL also said that their is a terrible, aweful incidence of rape NOT being reported, because of the shame, humiliations etc associated with reporting rape. SO...to say "porn lowers rape" is bullshit, because you say people are getting raped all the time, it's just not reported.

Fuckwads.

All of you.

Well...except Draug, because he actually fought against the "rape culture" argument...

Hey! Krellin! Why you gotta drag me into this! I didn't even weigh in on whether porn is good or bad!

hecks - sorry if you were not involved in the rape culture discussion and sufer my wrath unnecessarily. Those that are guilty are feeling the appropriate shame, unless they are the sociopaths I think they actually are who spout their bullshit more for appearances than anything else, and who can't hold a consistent belief from one issue to the next if their life depended on it...

hmm Jamie I never understood the whole "jizz on the face" thing. It was always too reminiscent of marking ones territory for my enjoyment. But I take your point indeed.

In all honesty, I was jusdging porn either way here. I actually do think it objectifies women and is bad in that sense. Modern porn has gone to two extremes: women friendly porn who even wives and girlfriends will watch as they are sexual creatures too, and degrading and/or violent porn that the fucked up pervs get off on. And I'm not just talking about simple porn involving anal sex, but shit like this...

NSFW! (Warning, contains scenes of torture and even electrocution)

http://www.porntube.com/videos/japanese-bondage-sex-extreme-bdsm-sexual-punishment-2_1118842

I *wasn't* judging is what I meant above.

@Draug - I excused you from my tirade, because you weren't one of the hypocrites screaming about rape culture, and then *not* decrying the violence inherent in the porn industry.

@Draug - I could have said: Oh the horror! Why would you link to something like that? What kind of a weirdo are you? (This works best if you use the same horrified voice that several people used when I linked to the basketball player breaking his leg)

Instead, I will say: I bet that is fucked up. I, as an adult exercising my own free will, chose not to click on the link.

@jimgov -- And do you, teacher of teenage girls, think that such pornography has a worthwhile place in society, where teenage boys can and do have access to it as they are formulating how they will relate to the teenage girls they are or soon will be courting?

Draug: thanks for the link. I'll definitely check that out once I get home.

@krellin - I haven't really followed the whole rape thread because even seeing rape in a movie sickens me. I do think, however, that you cannot just use the lump term porn in this instance. If you are talking about real fucked up shit, like what Draug linked to (didn't click the link), then I think that is is really messed up that children could gain access to it. I'm not sure that anyone should look at that, but it's a freedom of speech issue. If we are talking about soft core porn meant for consenting adults, then I'm cool with it.

Still not cool with children getting ahold of it, though. The internet has really messed up kids with regards to "porn." It is way too easy to get ahold of pretty perverted images and video today. Without proper parental guidance and oversight, I am really afraid of what the average teenager could get his hands on. Back in the day, we had to find one of our friend's dad's Playboy stash. Now...shudder.

YJ -- one of the "rape culture" monkeys accusing us all of being part of a rape culture...will *gladly* go watch some (maybe) simulated rape video. Big surprise.

@jimgov -- Regarding "porn" in general, sure, there is "good" porn, I suppose.

Before you are so dismissive of my point, though, I am not talking about the content of a porn movie, per se. I am also talking about the porn industry as a whole; the women that are in the porn industry. It is not a pro-woman industry, and the "actresses" are not just wholesome girls looking for work. There is a very dark side to the industry, and for the women in the industry in particular. So, if you support the porn industry in general, you are *basically* supporting the active and on-going abuse of women.

It's kind of like saying, "Well, that slave holder is kind to his slaves...and I really love my cotton sweater, so...." and ignoring the problem with slavery.

Hello krellin. I respond to your dickish tirade by quoting myself in this very thread. I suppose you need a statement to be read to you to have even a half chance of noticing it. It's hard not existing, isn't it.

"It shouldn't be banned, but I'm not personally all too certain that it's not a bad thing.

It's almost inherently objectifying. So we might want to treat it like other "sins" - make it legal but discourage it's use. I don't really know. I try not to, speaking for myself."

So uh.... what was your point?

I agree with krellin on that. But the difference is I view the biggest problem with porn being two fold: one - the type of porn we consider "tolerable" or "acceptable". Snuff films are a crime, but simulating a snuff film is considered acceptable for instance. Two - the free availability of it on the internet. prontube.com, youporn.com. Niehter of them ask for proof of age and even those that do commonly have a simple "I accept some statement that claims I am 18 or 21 or whatever". Only a few of them require real proof and those normally just use CCs which are readily available to teens as well.

Now, as far as the women involved, in today's society many of them get involved because they actually do want to. college girls make extra money with room cams and doing "private shows" at several dollars a minute don't think about their future and what will happen when that video they made to advertise their little webcam comes to haunt them later or the fact that this career only lasts a few years until they either have destroyed any desirability they once possessed or just got too old. so while the seedier side of US based porn has cleaned up since going mainstream (i.e. Wicked and Vivid), there are many more fly by night homegrown porn producers who are even less scrupulous than those of the 70s heyday when pron and drugs ran together. Hidden cameras and cash for a fuck amateur porn runs rampant and is more damaging than anything Marilyn Chambers, Seka, or Linda Lovelace or even Tracy Lords or Ginger Lynn did in the 70s and 80s.

Thucy -- so...in other words, you don't think an industry that actively abuses women should be banned...basically an industry that encourages rape of women (see above video link)...but you are going to accuse all of us as being a part of a "rape culture".

Your quoted statement above is *hardly* a criticism of the porn industry and the known abuse to women that is integral to porn. Do yourself a favor before you make an even bigger douche bag of yourself, and do a little research on women in the porn industry, asshole.

You are too stupid to even see your hypocrisy, aren't you? Or are you just such a self-center dick that you can't imagine giving up you porn, because you like to jack off too much?

@Draug -- good points in terms of the evolution of teh industry, and the spectrum of available content and the involement of women.

it is ironic, though, is it not, when assholes like Thucy - who pretty much ripped you a new one for suggesting you are a part of a rape culture - to so casually dismiss the problems of the industry. The worst he can say it might objectify women.... And WHY is that the worst criticism he can imagine of an industry that has destroyed the lives of far too many women? Because he doesn't want to lose his jack-off films.

he's no better than a rapist...he'd rather not criticize the industry he uses for his personal pleasure than dare MAN UP, strap on a pair, and honestly admit there is probably a hell of a lot more wrong with it than he cares to admit...

Maybe if he'd just do a little bit of research....but no....that wouldn't be asking too much, and might give him a guilty conscience..

@krellin - You keep making this assertion of "active abuse" but have provided no evidence of such to date. Once, yes. Now, no. With women in charge in mamny cases and demanding salaries far beyond their male counterparts, porn has become a lucrative business for the exhibitionistic woman and studios like Vivid and Wicked. Hell Jenna Jameson was making $60,000 per day to make porn films. Per *day*! Not per film. That's a quarter million a week and taking long weekends every weekend.

@Thucy -- so if the worst part of porn is it "objectifies" women....

So I'm NOW going to APPLY THUCY LOGIC TO DRUNK WOMEN: I'm also going to say when a women chooses to objectify herself by coming to my college party (which is known to drunken sex) in a mini-mini skirt, and a low cut blouse with her tits all but falling our...and then she gets blind-ass junk and crawls on my lap and starts rubbing her ass on my cock...well, she's pretty much asking to be fucked. It isn't rape. It's called the College Greek system, right? No problems, there...

That's using YOUR logic, right?

Damn I wish the plus ones were working!

@krellin - I was not dismissing your point. Like I said, you are combining two threads, one of which I have not read.

"So, if you support the porn industry in general, you are *basically* supporting the active and on-going abuse of women."

And if you are smoking, you are *basically* supporting an industry that kills 5 million people per year world wide. I'm not going to push my personal beliefs on smokers and I'm not going to do it with regards to porn.

@Draug -- I'm not saying it's bad for all...but to say everyone in the industry is there by choice, and so say that the abuse of women is not a part of the industry is naive and stupid. MY POINT was to identify the sheer hypocrisy of a bunch of douche bags that like to stroke the cocks to porn, but after they've cleaned themselves up will tell YOU what a rotten, rape-loving dick you are...without considering even for a fraction of a second that they might actually be supporting the abuse of women for their own personal pleasure.

I haven't read all these articles...I googled and linked...but I trust if you do, you will find that the porn industry isn't all roses and caviar...

http://earthreview.eu/2012/04/abuse-in-the-porn-industry/

http://www.examiner.com/article/porn-stars-are-abused-and-are-human-trafficking-victims

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/26/porn-stars-sexual-abuse-damaged-goods-study_n_2192948.html

http://www.truthdig.com/arts_culture/item/20091011_the_victims_of_pornography/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2120823/How-Deep-Throat-star-Linda-Lovelaces-tragic-life-modern-morality-tale.html

@jimgov - Uhhh..actually, if you smoke, by definition you DO financially support the industry that kills millions. Your logic is fatally flawed, my friend...

"I'm not going to push my personal beliefs on smokers and I'm not going to do it with regards to porn. "

So...as long as it doesn't affect you personally, anything goes, right?

I'm not asking you to push your personal beliefs...I'm asking whether or not you have a public conscience, jimgov?