And Bean was a minor character in the original book. But he is the main character of the Shadow series (Ender's Shadow, et. al.)

bump

Why?

What is utterly ***repulsive*** about this thread is the notion by some JUDGEMENTAL ASSHOLE (that would be Obi...) that the merit of some piece of literature is somehow dependant upon the personal beliefs of the writer. AS IS OBI HAS ANY FUCKING IDEA WHAT SHAKESPEARE's LIFE WAS LIKE...Chances are, he was a pretnetious asshole, and judgmental to a fault!

If the standard of literature is "I must first agree with every political statement of the author before I endorse the book..."....the the fucking Liberals have truly destroyed society....have destroed freedom....have destroyed freedom OF THOUGHT....

....which is ironic, becuase it has been predicted by sci-fi authors over and over agian....and it usually starts with asshole smarter-than-you dicks like Obiwan...

So fuck off, Obi. YOU are a closed minded asshole. If *most* people truly knew ANYTHING about you....like that idea that you see yourself ass some sort of a-sexual being who has no interest in the opposite sex (probably because you weigh about 400 lbs and it is your self-rationale for why nobody can stand your pretentious ass...)...if anyone knew anything about you and realized what a fucking human deviant you truly are....they would dismiss your ideas without a thought!

So fuck off....

@JECE:

...Why?

We'd effectively covered the topic, I thought...why bump it back up?

@krellin:

Boo. Hoo.

"What is utterly ***repulsive*** about this thread"

Oh, ***three*** asterisks...I must be getting bonus points!

"that the merit of some piece of literature is somehow dependant upon the personal beliefs of the writer."

...Yeah. It can be. Not necessarily, but it can be.

You can have some amazing philosophical ideas, but support Hitler and you may just find your reputation tarnished.

Just ask Heidegger.

Not saying it's right or wrong (and notice I'm not freaking out like an adolescent with a rage boner, either, but speaking like a civilized adult, what a concept) but it does happen.

"AS IS OBI HAS ANY FUCKING IDEA WHAT SHAKESPEARE's LIFE WAS LIKE...Chances are, he was a pretnetious asshole, and judgmental to a fault!"

Last I checked, I wasn't questioning Scott Card for being pretentious or judgmental, just saying that I was disappointed to learn about his stance and that, as such bigotry has tarnished otherwise-great authors and artists' legacies before--again, Wagner and Heidegger, as just two examples--I'd wonder if it might happen to Scott Card.

So...the point of that was...to sound angry, bring up Shakespeare because...you think it'd somehow anger me or make a point against me...and make a fool of yourself?

Congrats!

"If the standard of literature is "I must first agree with every political statement of the author before I endorse the book...".."

Did I say that?
No.

NEXT.

"....the the fucking Liberals have truly destroyed society....have destroed freedom....have destroyed freedom OF THOUGHT...."

Did--did you just go off into your own Ayn Rand-induced seizure of thought there, krellin?

I say I think less of a man and possibly his reputation because I find his stance on something abhorrent...and that's destroying your freedom of thought?

Funny--sounds like Freedom of Speech on both our sides to me...

"So fuck off, Obi. YOU are a closed minded asshole."

Right.
I am.
YOU just said everyone and everything liberal is awful and destroying thought...
But *I* am the one who is intolerant and closed-minded in this conversation of other views.

You WORSHIP an old dead guy....whom you know NOTHNG About. Chances are...there is shit about Shakey that would disappoint you....like having a kid out of wedlock, etc. Things that in your moral world of asexualism would repulse you...but..oh....Professor said he was the best...

OBi....have the courage to write a similar post comdeming EVERY author you have read who has personal habits and beliefs you don't agree with.

FUCK YOU...He is a fucking AUTHOR...not a god-damned politician. The idiea that you even try to tie your disappointment with his beliefs to his writing is offensive beyond belief. ESPECIALLY coming from a SOCIAL DEVIANT LIKE YOURSELF that....if you told any random human "HE is A-SEXUAL...." wold say, "Freak....I'll never read THAT asshole's books...".....

YOU GET IT...dickhead??? WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO JUDGE ANOTHER MAN'S CHARACTER? You are the sort of fucking deviant who...when they finally "discover" sexuality when they are 42....decide that what they REALLLY LIKE is young boys....THAT is the secret YOU are hiding...You fucking pervert...

Obi's Words of Wisdom:
"So fuck off, Obi. YOU are a closed minded asshole."

Right.
I am."

"WOW. I'm an idiot."

"If *most* people truly knew ANYTHING about you....like that idea that you see yourself ass some sort of a-sexual being who has no interest in the opposite sex"

First of all, asexual/aromantic (as it were) people do actually exist, so...yeah...

"(probably because you weigh about 400 lbs and it is your self-rationale for why nobody can stand your pretentious ass...)"

Did you miss the thread where I say I don't eat much of anything, some noodles and maybe some meat and carrots and that's about it?

If anything, I'm a the textbook example of a pencil-necked white-'n-nerdy pasty rail of a person!

;)

Which I'm fine with, because somehow--and I know this might be hard for you to grasp, but try anyway, you've failed to grasp just about everything else, so you're due to get lucky and comprehend something sooner or later--my idea of self-worth doesn't come down to how I look.

Somehow...I'm comfortable being white-'n-nerdy.

Somehow, I just get by.

Somehow.

"...if anyone knew anything about you and realized what a fucking human deviant you truly are....they would dismiss your ideas without a thought!"

Ummm...that was AFTER the 400 lbs. allegation, right?

I'm a human deviant because...

I'm a liberal, or because you think I'm roughly the weight of 4 supermodels?

Just for clarification.

"You WORSHIP an old dead guy....whom you know NOTHNG About."

I...do...?

Born 1564, died 1616, son of a glove-maker, actor, married Anne Hathaway (different Anne Hathaway), had a couple daughters...and then all the stuff from his sonnets and plays...?

"Chances are...there is shit about Shakey that would disappoint you"

Probably so.
No hero can live up to the image one creates of him.
Which is why it's best to never meet your heroes...
...And for authors not to ruin their own public image with stupid political statements.

"Things that in your moral world of asexualism would repulse you...but..oh....Professor said he was the best..."

How would it repulse me???
I don't have sex, so no one should--what sort of silly logic is that?
And, I like him alone, krellin. I never needed an old stuffy white guy to tell me to do so.
So, please, keep trolling, trolling, trolling along... :)

"FUCK YOU...He is a fucking AUTHOR...not a god-damned politician."

Which is why he shouldn't express a political belief publicly unless he wants to be subject to political scrutiny.

"The idiea that you even try to tie your disappointment with his beliefs to his writing is offensive beyond belief. ESPECIALLY coming from a SOCIAL DEVIANT LIKE YOURSELF"

I...I have to ask...because...

You're really getting me excited, krellin--I'm a deviant?! :D

WOW!

COOL!

And here I was thinking I was a white, nerdy college kid, but NOPE!

I'm a deviant! A no-good-nick! Bad news! YEAAAAHHHH!

*James Dean pose!*

Ewww...you gave me 4 lines about his life....yeah...you know a LOT about him....ASSHOLE.

YOu have sex? Hmmmm...this is contrary to your previous posts proclaiming your asexuality....so now you are a confirmed liar.

But yo admit that you eat what? Noodles and...whatever .....you are *truly* a socail deviant. You are the type of person that 99% of society avoids, because you are creepy and weird and scary....and seriously, instead of embracing your odd behavior, you really ought to try to figure out what the fuck is wrong with you...because no matter how "right" you think you are....you will *never* get anywhere in this world being the deviant freak that you are. I do not pity you at all...because you are intelligent enought to understand what an assholish freak you are....you just CHOOSE to shove it in people's faces....which is why you are so unhappy, and feel the ned to constantly justify your deviant behavior...

You seriously need **REAL** psycholigical help, Obi. I never really realized it until now....but YOU are a batman movie shooter waiting int he wings....you scare the hell out of me wth your anti-scoial in-your-face deviant behavior. I *seriously* hope you seek help or get seriously locked up before you hurt someone. Fucking freak.

"YOU GET IT...dickhead??? WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO JUDGE ANOTHER MAN'S CHARACTER?"

By that logic, who are you to judge my character?

Freedom of Speech--

Scott Card can speak and judge others...
I can judge him...
You can judge me for judging him.
It's a beautiful system. :)

OBi -- who am I to judge your character? I am a fairly statistically *normal* human being....unlike you. I like the opposite sex. I am married and have kids and pay taxes. I don't pretend that old dead mean who wrote plays are somehow superior to me....and when I read a book of a living person, I don't check their credit raint before I judge their book.

You are the **worst** kind of fuckng hypocrite. You openly live the life of a fucking social deviant...and then judge someone's art as unworthy because you think that violate who YOU percieve is a social norm (which it is NOT, fuckhead....30+ states have had gay marriage votes....30+ have REJECTED fag marriage....so the SOCIAL NORM IS ORSON SCOTT CARD.....)

YOu pretty much have ***zero** ground to stand on with your argument...whicn just makes you totally sad and pathetic. The more I know about you...the more you reveal of how fucked up and anti-social you are, the more you reveal about how much of a asexual freak you are, the more I find there is zero merit to ant social commentary you have....

I was enjoying this. Then I found out you were married with kids... :(

"I am married and have kids and pay taxes."

Then why are you wasting time trolling an obscure thread on a forum?

"I don't pretend that old dead mean who wrote plays are somehow superior to me"

He's a superior writer, yes--but we both put on our pants one leg at a time, as it were.

And wow, "fag marriage," that's getting into some offensive territory...

BUT!
I AM A SOCIAL DEVIANT!
AND I NEED YOUR HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow, tensions running high. Just curious - does this arguing affect when you guys are in a game? I would imagine the desire to invade someone is pretty strong if you don't like them. Oh, I have a live anon. gunboat game starting in 20 min.

please join!

Krellin, between this and your 2nd amendment rants I am surprised you haven't given yourself an aneurism. I can honestly say I have never read an angrier person. I am not sure I am comfortable with the idea you are allowed to own firearms.

Wow, I was just keeping my options open to reply to that crazy Cincinnatian (Draugnar). I didn't excpet so many other crazy people to resort to ALL-CAPS.

Hey now, JECE. I live in Fairfield. Cincinnati is that big looney city to the south who has money to build fucking trolleys but not pay their police (how fucking moronic is that?)

They're building trolleys? Really? In a city where nobody lives downtown?

OSC did one of the best writing of our age, he revolutionised science fiction, but he hates something I don't, so let's claim his writing is shit! Yay!

fucking morons...

@JECE - Yep! Clifton to Over-the-Rhine to the Banks hoping to pull the college kids and the drug dealers down to the Casino and bars at the Banks.

Don't worry, Hydro. Some of us love OSC's writing despite his personal views. My dad is one of those guys that can't stand certain singers because of their politics. I honestly don't give a fuck (although I did boycott War of the Worlds after Cruise did his whole anti-psychology rant and got on Brooke Shields for her post-partem depression).

If you'd read what I actually wrote, Hydro, before making your statement, you'd say that I didn't call his writing shit at all.

I just said I think his personal views will ultimately tarnish his legacy.

Ask Richard Wagner how writing anti-Jew essays and calling fro Jews to be thrown out of the music profession and saying he'd like to see them all "Burn in one great opera house" impacted HIS legacy.

Scott Card is a fine writer...but a the legacy of a person is more than what they write.