@ Lando, well to start, I agree with you about Geofram, that however is where our agreement ends. What the hell do you need to know about kestas besides the fact that he hosts this website, built the code on his spare time, fixes any and all problems as fast as possible, and created an open forum so people like you are free to whine all they like, instead of the typical strict forums that delete posts like this. Taking out your frustration with a mod or 2 on him is ridiculous. As for not trusting any of the mods...really? Tru and Zultar were and still are 2 of the more respected players on the site. What more do you want, a personal interview with them? Come on, I agree that something really should be done about Geo, but all your doing here is pissing off the only people who are capable of solving that issue.

"What the hell do you need to know about kestas"

I would prefer not to bother him if he doesn't want to be bothered. I udnerstand who he is, but I know not what his day-to-day involvement is. I did not really mean to say anything about him beyond the fact that I did not know if he was "available" to the masses.

"Tru and Zultar were and still are 2 of the more respected players on the site."

I did not know Tru Ninja was a moderator and you have absolutely no conception about zultar and my relationship. As far as I am concerned, he is a far worse human being than Geofram is.

I am currently working with fortknox to come up with a way to make more people happier. I think your comment here jmo was completely uncalled for and counter to what fortknox was asking from us.

LOL, yay I've been voted worse human being than Geo. I probably ranked up there with abge in Lando's opinion.
Work well done for me.

Since we are getting personal, let's get personal. :)

As I have told you, Lando, I am more than willing to make any part of our discussion public. I told you this months ago. I have no problems airing out my dirty laundries, just as I invited krellin for a frank discussion in regards to his vitriol. And like him, you quietly disappeared after I told you that we can bring up the issues to the forum if you want. You went away and so I did not make any further comment.

Then you proceeded to call me out, "a far worse human being than Geofram," after publicly calling him to be banned, which is rather bad form. So let's talk about who should get banned.

If anyone needs to be banned, it is you. You are a documented cheater, who was caught and penalized and then proceeded to repeal your penalty over and over again. This is NOT a cheating accusation but statement of fact. We usually do not disclose these things but it's been a nice day for making exceptions. You make many cheating accusations and while many of them are true, not all of them are true. You, however, are adamant that you are always right and that you know perfectly cheating when you see one. We have systematic tools to detect meta/multi and we also look at games specifically. Not all weird moves or alliances are the result of cheating. Just because you think there is cheating does not mean there HAS to be cheating. I, for one, dislike cheating and many people on the site can attest to how responsive I've been in regards to cheating accusations when they have gone through the proper channel.

The mods were lenient towards you back then. They should have banned your whiny, cheating, arrogant ass.

If you don't like/respect any of the mods, if you think the site has gone down hill in the past couple of years (since we caught you cheating), if you don't think you can learn to communicate through the proper channel with the mods and to kestas, if you don't think there is any good here, there are other sites where you can play and practice your cheating and complaining.

In my opinion, this site has the best level of competition and there have been quite a bit of growth and improvements over the years. There are a number of tournaments and organized games. There is a lot of good discussions and a lot of crazy ones that keep the place interesting. The mods -I'm excluding myself here- have generally been very responsive, kind, communicative, and respectful. They are volunteers and they do a lot of good work. They do make mistakes but they also try to address them as much as they can. I would rather have abge, or thucy, or fk or ye as moderators than anyone like you (and here I can make available specific details of your transgression -read cheating- to people so that they get to see that other side of you).

I usually do not post these details or discuss them but I am willing to make an exception for you.

Wait, Lando has been found guilty of cheating?

I DEMAND JUSTICE!

This was dealt with years ago, I don't understand why zultar is bringing it up now and I will post a reply later.

I would also like to point to zultar's message above as the exact reason why I believe he is unfit to mediate anything. his bias is clear and his prejudice unabashed.

Geofram is simply an asshole, this is the difference.

Yep because I make these posts on a regular basis.
Once again, we can make public your transgression publicly and let the chips fall where they may.

And I brought it up because you made it personal. I had nothing to do with the discussion until you called me out for fun. I dislike cheating just as much as I dislike hypocrites. I am glad though that you are able to use words like "bias" and "prejudice" and "unabashed" without realizing the hypocrisy.

I don't spend time trying to seek you out or discuss things with you.
I spend time dealing with your cheating accusations just as much with anyone else's and I hope some folks can speak to the cases that I've dealt with for them.
In short, I don't really care whether you are here or not.

I do care when you publicly call out people to be banned. I do care when you start calling me a far worse human being. To be candid, I was the first to notice your post and I emailed the other mods so that they can respond. I don't want much to do with you knowing your history and who you are based on our private discussions and your previous discussions with other mods. I was letting other mods get involved so that my "bias" wouldn't interfere (knowing that anything I post would be read in a negative light by you).

But what about all the assertions you made in your post? The ones that you have no ability to know their validity? That is my problem. And why you are a terrible moderator.

Lando, I see you already posted another reply, but again mentioned nothing about your alleged cheating. We're all interested, you know. Did you cheat or not?

According to Zultar, who is a mod, it was proved, yes.

Yes, and it was dealt with years ago. I assume the details of what happened don't need to be disclosed. It was cheating, yes. A second account I once had I used to use as a "dummy" to join games that were going to expire at 6 people. The "dummy" would CD and the game would continue with 6 players. It was a process to get more live games going and feed my addiction. It was NOT a scheme to gain points or GR.

I DEMAND JUSTICE

^That's actually not such a terrible idea ;-)

That was in response to Lando's last post. It's cheating-light if you ask me.

And I faced a significant punishment. I have moved on, I have played about 700 games since without any incident. I don't believe any of this is relevant now.

Are we going to continue this charade of lies?

It was not dealt with YEARS ago. It was dealt with just last year, 2011.
And it was not a dummy account. You played 14, FOURTEEN, games together.

I want to stop posting, but please dispense with the lies. You are being disingenuous. And please learn to read. I did not say we cannot determine the validity of cheating. I said we have multiple tools to do so. Systematic tools as well as game-specific observations. We are not, however, out to ban people just because the moves in one game look odd or that they cheated without knowing. If we did that, many people would not be here. And we like to be lenient when we can, especially when they didn't know about the rules, so that they can learn and expiate their wrongs.

It gets my blood going when people commit wrong doings and then act as if they did not do any such thing and then proceed to call for everyone who is doing the same thing to be banned or punished.

Games with CDs suck! I wish you didn't tell us, now redhouse and god knows who else will be your copycats.

Lando played 14 games as a multi? If that's true, why hasn't he been banned?

@ zultar: "We are not, however, out to ban people just because the moves in one game look odd..."

That's just as well. I make odd-looking moves all the time!

"Are we going to continue this charade of lies?"

I am not misrepresenting myself. 14 games together. Maybe 1 where both inputted moves. We don't need to continue talking about this as my "intentions" are nto something you can know.

I am not sure what the paragraph beginning "I want to stop posting, but please dispense with the lies...." is referring to.

I did something wrong a couple years ago. It was found in 2011. I accepted the consequences of what I did and am not trying to say I did nothign wrong.

I haven't done anything wrong for years (at least, this wrong. i have made mistakes). this si why I am not sure why you are bringing it up now. it was quite clearly water udner the bridge for the rest of the group, including figle and TGM who dealt with it then.....

What consequences? You're still here. I hope the admins will be so merciful when I try to fuck the system.

Unfortunately some wires got crossed in what the moderators are allowed to talk about and the manner in which we handle situations.

If anyone was caught cheating and went through the system, they have been deal with according to the moderators judgement and punishment. These are typically not for public consumption because we believe in reconciliation, especially of first time offenders and don't wish for them to be further scarred by the public with some scarlet letter.

Some of our best and active players made mistakes when the first came to the site, but changed their ways and helped us grow the community.

I apologize that some of this inform has been disseminated to you. Obviously each case is dealt with separately and the one in question was dealt with long ago. Please don't continue this public character assassination. Punishment has already been passed on by us and no additional punishment is required or needed.

Bear in mind that Lando brought some of this on himself when he: a) started a thread DEMANDING that Geofram be banned, and b) then used that thread to insult and belittle zultar.

I really don't get wtf is the problem with Mods/Admins all the time? Seriously?! I mean, I had some issues with them in my previous games, from multi/meta till violation of gunboat rules to demanding my points back in a game where someone was banned.

But I never came across anything like some people (not just Lando, not just this time) are speaking about. Maybe I'm the luckiest member having the easiest problems, or I just got the kindest mod to answer me all the time, but I simply don't get wtf is the problem always.

I know mods made (and make) mistakes, I recall Babak's game, for eg., but beyond expressing my strong opinion in email, how big mistake they've made, I don't see why anybody would demand banning, replacing, etc.

Surely, not everybody is a competent candidate, and revoking rights is as much the responsibility of mods, as granting them, but for me, the most important is to secure mistakes don't repeat themselves, and not that mistakes are punished.

If granting rights to someone was a mistake, revoking it is not the solution, it's just the handling of the problem. The solution is, to secure not to grant rights to someone, who doesn't deserve.

But on the player side, attacking mods publicly, even if you are right, surely isn't a solution to anything. And since I have never met anything like other are so upset about, I can't really judge or feel the anger at someone.

I'm pretty sure mods still learn a lot from their mistakes, which is good, even more important than avoiding them. And as I see they remember most of their mistakes and know them pretty well, not to repeat them. So for me, these attacks against mods just come out of the blue, and I'm always amazed what the hell is going on ? :)

I agree with rokakoma.

Outside of this tournaments just dropping off the face of the earth, I've never had a problem with any admin here, they've always been friendly and helpful.

Hear, hear.

Since we're throwing shit out of the woodwork here...I was banned...once...a looong time ago in the land of mods...I still never got my old account back...even after I clearly proved my innocence. :-(

That being said, zultar, I think that was low to bring up the past mistakes of another player, that I believe is an abuse of your administrative rights on the site. Regardless if you are a mod you need to treat other players and try to deminish them to dust. Your actions should speak for themselves. Clearly many people say things out of anger, but you crossed the line of respect for other players (in my humble opinion) Your job is to be unbiased in your decisions and respond in a profesional manner, which you have done neither. You used to be my favorite, and now you are simply just fading into the noise of shit.

I throw in my vote to close this thread in general, all it does is create animousity to players on the site and the mods. Mods need to lock this thread because it's all just a cluster fuck of insults. Zultar I feel like you need to go on probation, because regardless of what you think, as FK said, you tainted someone else's good name.

This needs to stop. Now.

Sandgoose, zultar only brought up Lando's past behaviour because Lando was insulting him.