"Relativist nonsense, obiwanobiwan. Sovereign states has a right to control who enters them. Immigration needs to be regulated so that, oh I don't know, drug cartels can't move their members into a country with impunity. Or, less dramatically, diseases like TB can be kept out of a country."
Yes they do.
HOWEVER, as the Supreme Court just ruled, they can't override federal law in meting out punishment for immigration crimes, and the main reason the "show-your-papers" example wasn't struck down--ie, the main vestige remaining of the Arizona Immigration Law--is that there's no precedent, and the SC only deals in matters like that AFTER a case has occurred and they can then decide at that point if it's constitutional or not.
So, yes, they have a sovereign right, but they don't get to supersede the federal government, which is what Arizona was largely doing in this case.
(For those on the Right, however, who might cry "States Rights!" and find that unfair, don't worry...Obamacare gets a decision handed down Thursday, and it sure looks like at least some of it will be struck down, so you'll get your turn on the attack against me on a SC case here.)
:)
"Illegal immigration harms the country whether the illegals come from Mexico or Ireland (actually a thing)."
I disagree, but before I do so at length, could you first give your position and say why you feel illegal immigration hurts the nation (barring the obvious, ie, the danger of a terrorist sneaking into the country...we're--to be honest--mostly talking about illegal immigrants from Latin America right now, so Jihadists aren't exactly the of the utmost concern in this discussion, I feel.)
" Legal immigration helps the country whether they come from Mexico or India or anyplace, so long as they integrate into the broad American culture. You know, not carrying out honor killings, at least some working knowledge of English, and a loyalty to our democratic system of government (in the loosest, don't-want-to-actively-overthrow-it kind of way). That sort of thing. Basically 21st century Ellis Island."
Except:
1. Ellis Island itself wasn't exactly the best example of immigration efficiency and kindness and fairness towards immigrants...it got the job done for the time (and after all, that's how my folks arrived here) but in retrospect, there are plenty of flaws to be seen.
2. That being said, we don't even HAVE an Ellis Island equivalent right now, so to mandate an idea of legal immigration based on something we are lacking seems absurd...indeed, if we had the equivalent processing ability as even somewhere as overworked and overflowing as Ellis Island was, this might be less of an issue, but both parties agree--the system's broke.
3. I don't think "honor killings" are a major concern with the Latino immigrants (I get it's for a broader example, but still.)
4. In all honesty, I don't know if Latinos have to or should have to speak English once they get here, actually; we don't have an official national language--and for good reason, THAT would open the door for some rather nasty cultural and racial squabbles--so really you can speak any language you like here...everyone just always HAS spoken English because, well, the majority of the population has, historically, always spoken English where immigrants have gone, even if we take something like early 1900s America. We have Little Italys and Little Polands, sure, and they spoke their own native languages, yes, but by the same token, they eventually came to speak English, most of them--but that was, again, because MOST in their area spoke English, and in order to survive and do business and go to Church and all that, you had to learn the language, not for a legal reason, but for socio-economic reasons. With LATINOS, however, that's not the case--here in Southern California, YOU CAN SPEAK SPANISH AND DO BUSINESS...that's just a fact. Someone can speak only Spanish here near Los Angeles or in San Diego or in parts of Arizona and Texas and Florida, and they CAN do business...because there's such a large pocket of Latinos already, and because of the unifying power of their language and the Catholic Church gives them, there's less of an incentive for such people to learn English. It's not laziness, it's just a matter of time and energy--after all, if you work 12 hours a day, do you then want to spend extra time to learn another language, or come home and enjoy your family life in the native language and cultural environment you know? Maybe. But not everyone would choose that. The Latino immigration is unique in American history, as this has never happened before as, again, when a group has immigrated to the US, their language has always either been English already or they've been in a situation where, in order to do business and survive culturally, they've had to learn English, and such is not the case with Latinos--Spanish is one of the major languages of the world, it's just as major as English and, if I'm not mistaken, has more native speakers (although English is still the #1 second-language in the world, so really it's English, Spanish, Chinese/Mandarin, and Arabic that are the predominant languages right now in the world.) What's more, again, when people have immigrated here, their religion has either already been a minority religion (ie, my own case, my great-great grandparents being Jewish) or else passable as "white Christians," if not Protestant...but again, this isn't the case with the Latino community--Catholicism is the largest sect of Christianity, so there's less pressure to learn English in a nation where there ARE city-large pockets of Spanish speakers where you can get by and Spanish-speaking Catholic churches and the like. In essence, then, there's less incentive, less reason for the Latino community--a community very proud of its culture and with the strength in demographics and numbers to back that pride up and keep it from being assimilated easily--to integrate fully or assimilate. It is a very real possibility that, coupled with the fact that studies show that, while they'll still be the top demographic, we're coming up on the point where whites will no longer comprise 50%+ of the population, we could see a sort of melding pot rather than melting pot here in regards to the Latino immigration, that is, they may very well retain their identity and language and culture in full force in large pockets of the nation, notably in urban areas like right here near Los Angeles, and rather than integrating and becoming indistinguishably "American" within a generation, they very well retain their cultural identity to a large extent and in large pockets.
Chatting during a pause. 
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