Just to be clear, that +1 was for the KA comment, not the in-laws comment

@obi, I also think you are wrong. I just spent most of the night talking to an incredibly witty, smart, and unique "gal". We are best friends and get each other great, but there is no physical spark for either of us, so that is all we are, best friends.

@supersteve, ROFL

Well, I'll be the first to admit, I have yet to find any girls that have the spark of real attraction with me, but I've been on enough dates to know what I don't like.
Of course, I'm also an amateur fiction critic/writer, and I've always been very picky so....
Forever Alone.

"there is no physical spark for either of us, so that is all we are, best friends."

That's "all" you are?

As if there's more?

My friends have mainly been English, Poly-Sci, and Theatre people...so, naturally, THEY, through the years, have shacked up many times, and broken up many times...and MOST of those times I called, could tell from the start how it was going to end, and that's just it:

They ALWAYS end.

But MY best friend and I have had knock-down, drag-out fights, bickered for a sport, spent three months not talking to one another thanks to the fallout from our biggest fight ever...but she's had three boyfriends in the time I've known her...

I've out-lasted #1 and #2, and #3's no problem, either.



To me, there is NOTHING higher-up in connecting with someone than a Holmes-Watson, Kirk-Spock-McCoy, Kate-Petruccio sort of a bond.

"Dating" is either a best friend with benefits, or the means to an end that--let's be honest--you don't need a friend for so much as an open wallet, if that particular end is that pleasing.

Best Friends are the pinnacle...physical attraction's just a nice, gaudy attraction.

The deepest connection is when I talk to my best friend, pose her with a personal question, and we each know what the other will say, and respond in kind knowing which buttons we each can push on the other to try and win the argument, and to go all out there, pour our heart and soul into that, expose mentally and emotionally what could only be shown superficially physically, shout, get angry, even come to blows...

And be able to laugh it off as a typical meeting and grab a drink together.

Best Friends are...the best.

All gay jokes aside--at the end of the day, it's not a woman--not even Irene Adler--Holmes needs at his side, but Watson.

They're connected in a way no physical connection can ever approach.

THAT, if anything, is as close to an intrinsic "meaning" to life as anything else...everyone having their own Watson, or Spock, or Kate, or whomever.

I'm curious, to all you guys, if you would ever date a girl who happened to be transgender/transsexual. And if you had already been dating, and they tell you a bit later, would you stop seeing her? Even if they were like the girl you are attracted to, but they just happened to be born with the wrong parts.

I don't mean to troll or whatever the word is.. If anything, I may be provoking my own emotions based on responses.

I don't date and never have, so maybe I'm not someone who should respond to that...

But no--if she was the one who connected with my mind and whatever emotions this cold bastard might have...

I could care less if she had three dicks and a claw down there, to be honest--

She'd still be the One.

LOL I can respond to Zultar's comment and Zephyris question at the same time.

KA wouldn't dare to displease me, he lives to slavishly serve my desires. Unfortunately, the only desire I have for overly emotional teenage boys is watching them discover new and inventive methods of self-murder.

oh, and Obiwan there are people in this world who are comfortable with the asexual lifestyle, so it's worth exploring, but most people find the bond is expressed most powerfully while plunging organs into orifices.

I don't know what it is, they just do.

I've never dated a girl twice if I couldn't hold an intelligent conversation with her. I always thought I was in a minority in that, until now...

Oh, and it's Sunday morning here, not Saturday night. ;-)
SuperSteve+100.

I don't think anybody here (well, not most) denies that intelligence is important. I just think that for most people to get everything a relationship has to offer you need attraction to accompany it. Attraction without compatibility is a shallow thing. Compatibility without attraction is just friendship.

I thought "dating" died with the internet and non-stop eating out. You people actually "date"? What counts as a date these days?

Glad I'm married and don't have to deal with this bs anymore. I can stay in on Saturday night and not get ridiculed by oversexed drunken single people. Namely because I don't have any single friends anymore.

This is all just ridiculous. Women don't need a brain, they just need to be good cooks....

But I completely agree obi, any woman who is not smarter than me is not worth my time. Granted that she's also very attractive and a good cook.....
Also, Putin, how is that true? Us church people have this wonderfully boring thing called 'courting' where eventually everyone loses interest except the two in love and then whatever they've been doing becomes a date.

And what's this with me and Yellowjackoff? I'd rather not get into another conversation about homosexuality....or into (I think a brand new topic...) pediophilia.

I know you church people. You get married at age 19 because you're forced to remain chaste until marriage but you can't even wait that long http://chattahbox.com/us/2009/09/18/states-with-most-born-again-christians-have-highest-teen-pregnancy-rates/

You hold these teen church camps or ministry camps where everybody impregnates someone or gets pregnant and then gets married a year later.

Oh God...something wicked this way comes (namely, a God-Church fight with Putin and KA involved...)

I don't see how best friendships can work if one best friend is in a relationship. At that point you're #2 for her and she's #1 for you. In all likelihood her boyfriend serves most of the functions you serve, unless it's purely physical between them. Even if you're lucky that she has an understanding boyfriend who doesn't mind another male companion around all the time, you end up being 3rd wheel way too often. If you find yourself doing too many favors for her while she can never be counted on then it's time to exit the friendship.

Since you can't "love" more than one person, a 3-way with one platonic friendship is not a recipe for long term success, imo. Some exclusivity is needed.

Yeah, religion correlates with LOTS of desirable attributes... desirable if you're trying to spread a virus :P

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/religion_vs_iq.html

obi-rainman posted,...."am I the only one who'd put brain-size over...?"
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But of course you are, you pompous (not)fucking cunt. The rest of us are mindless cattle. You are SUPERMAN, you ball-less wonder.
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"I'm as asexual a creature as you can get, so physical attractiveness.."
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You, more than likely, have a mild strain of Autism. This, in and of itself, is not a bad thing. Your mock-incomprehension of why you are different from others is getting more than a little tiresome, however.
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"As usual, I think Shakespeare has a handle on this"
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So do I. He married at the age of 18, and his first child was born SIX MONTHS LATER(Please. One of you patient people explain to obi-eunuch what the significance of this is). By most accounts he fathered three children, and was something of a hound dog.

In other words he was kind of normal, unlike you.
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""there is no physical spark for either of us, so that is all we are, best friends."

That's "all" you are?

As if there's more?"
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I pity you.

You seem to think that you lead some sort of evolved existence.

You're over-compensating.

These cerebral relationships, which you admire, are NOT mutually exclusive from physical relationships. They are part of a whole.

Your brain is MISSING a part, and you KNOW it.

Frankly, it's nothing more than sour grapes.
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"They ALWAYS end" "
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Simplistic, and just plain wrong.
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"Best Friends are the pinnacle...physical attraction's just a nice, gaudy attraction...Best Friends are...the best...All gay jokes aside--at the end of the day, it's not a woman--not even Irene Adler--Holmes needs at his side, but Watson...
They're connected in a way no physical connection can ever approach"
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How ON EARTH could you know, you sad freak?

Sorry for this double post.

obi......the fact that you need to lean on characters from a STORY to support your simplistic views on physical attraction is telling.

Grow up.

Really interesting thread. Maple, that could have been an excellent post (In my opinion) if you'd left off the name calling.

"All we are is best friends" is the knife edge here. Few people ever really get to have a best friend in the truest sense of the word. It does demean the experience to say "All we are". That said, "An open wallet" gets you sex, not love or romance. And is as well, a telling statement.

Shakespeare's Sonnet basically says "I want you, even if you aren't poetry personified." And that doesn't mean physical attractiveness isn't important. It means, I'm still physically attracted to you anyway.

Most partners don't have to be Tens, they have to be attractive enough. They don't have to be geniuses, they have to be smart enough. They don't have to drink dos equis (be the most interesting person in the world) they just have to be interesting enough. Same for funny, same for anything. There is something magical feeling about when you meet someone who is all that to you. It fills you up with hope, promise and glory. It makes even true friendship pale by comparison. There is simply no other feeling on earth like it. We call it love, but then we use that word for a lot less as well.

Then, there is the feeling you get when THEY feel that about you. And you realize that the feelings you had about them... were insignificant.

Is there something even greater? I haven't felt it yet. But I hope so. Probably having kids, now that I've had a moment to think about it. Yikes, scary thought.

That doesn't mean having a true friendship is Nothing. Its not. Its amazing. Few people get that chance. But its not the acme.

What you are guilty of, Obi, in my opinion, is being afraid of the possibilities. But don't worry, you're certainly not alone there.

mapleleaf +1 You spared me the trouble of trying to explain to obi why his responses are so sad/depressing.

Well, everything else aside, I think what Obi wrote in response to my post is a great way to think. It's even kind of romantic, almost in a tsundere kind of way, maybe..

Anyway, thank you Obi, for replying to my question.

jmo1121109 you are so sad/depressing.

Sorry I couldn't respond on Saturday night, I was at a sex party.

I find that I need a minimal level of physical attractiveness, but the mind is what I'm really interested in. I mean, I won't go for ugly chicks, but average looking women who are smart and funny are alright by me. As for the question about MTF trans...I think I'd have to seriously think about it if it ever became an issue. I want to look enlightened and say it wouldn't matter, but when push comes to shove(ing something in an orifice) I think it might. I dated an amputee until we had sex, and I was all "It doesn't matter" until I got that up close look.

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?

@Putin: I know full well that Christians can make mistakes. That's why I wear pants. And that whole 'best friend' thing...I have no idea what you or obi are trying to say. Perhaps someone could clarify what each of your posts mean.

@Yellowjacket: What the fuck? You do realize that there are only 39 on that scatter-plot and about half of them are under an IQ of 85 which is borderline retardation. So if this plot isn't pure cherry-picking...I don't know what is. Also, you can't ask a person about their religous values, because that could range from cults to Catholicism. And any Christian who doesn't list "Religion" as 100% important, obviously has no real pastoral education. And if you've ever heard of Pascal, you'll know that a complete Atheist could sat religion is a 100. That argument is completely flawed.

*39 ...this can really get annoying sometimes.

"But I completely agree obi, any woman who is not smarter than me is not worth my time." - The category "Women smarter than KA" doesn't really narrow things down much does it?

I have to say, everyone says things like this, "Oh I don't care about attractiveness, all that matters is intelligence." but then, I mean, it's not as though this article is proven wrong, because a bunch of anonymous people over the internet claim that they don't really care about looks in dating. It's not as though anyone else on the diplomacy forums is in a position to contradict you.

Also this kinda came up in a conversation I was having with a friend the other day. We were kinda discussing our unusually attractive extended social circle, and we noticed that while a lot of the women in said circle really are very very attractive, most of the guys are only average, but seem so much better looking because they're charming, intelligent and charismatic. It's an interesting double standard I think.

(Yes my friend and I were being shallow and petty, so sue us.)

@SacredDigits: Thanks for your reply. So it sounds like you wouldn't completely dismiss dating her, until sex becomes relevant? What if she already had genital surgery?

"Granted that she's also very attractive"
Yes, I can confirm that Mafialligator is an idiot. And if you have anything to say about my intelligence, you obviously have never met me...obviously!
I don't understand why I, a superior being, recieve the most ridicule...NEW THREAD POSTING!