Forum
A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
Page 786 of 1419
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swordsman3003 (14048 D(G))
07 Sep 11 UTC
Ever seen a 17/17 finish in a gunboat?
Just curious. If there is one on record can I get a link?
5 replies
Open
iPillage (0 DX)
04 Sep 11 UTC
Wonderful World of Warfare: A WorldDip game for talkers.
Hello everyone! I just created a world game in hopes that we can get a fun, clean game together. The meek and anti-social need not apply.

See ya on the battlefield!
gameID=67107
2 replies
Open
Lopt (102 D)
07 Sep 11 UTC
Off-topic: Browser Game
I've been playing a little browser game that lets you built up a squad of soldiers and customize them in order for them to fight automatically against other opponents.
It's quite nifty overall if you get into it and only take a couple of minutes each day.

1 reply
Open
ezpickins (113 D)
06 Sep 11 UTC
anonymous
here's a secret game http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=67296
0 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
06 Sep 11 UTC
Credibility issues after stabbing
Hey everyone,
I had a little issue I was curious about on stabbing: is that really the path to winning this game? I always find it a waste of good faith-building in an alliance to resort to simple terrain nicking at some point when you have so many more options (see follow up):
63 replies
Open
reinking3 (0 DX)
06 Sep 11 UTC
Big game 100 buy-in
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=67276

100 buy in anonymous players, classic, 1 day phases. Check it out
0 replies
Open
jackarnell (100 D)
06 Sep 11 UTC
5 min live game join please!!
id for 5min live game gameID=67284
0 replies
Open
msully4321 (100 D)
30 Aug 11 UTC
People missing orders
Argh! The first two games I play on here, two powers failed to submit Spring 1901 orders, which really fucks things up. :( I wish there was some sort of penalty for this or that webdiplomacy would send emails when a game starts and when you have orders due...
63 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
05 Sep 11 UTC
Our government owns a Quarter Million Homes
The fact that Congress owns a quarter million private residences is proof beyond a doubt that capitalism didn't cause the financial meltdown, government did.

11 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
06 Sep 11 UTC
The Budget Control Act
If you don't know what is in this act that was a key part of the budget deal passed in late July then you aren't an informed citizen of our democracy.
6 replies
Open
King Atom (100 D)
05 Sep 11 UTC
Just Going To Say This:
Why is it that everyone here seems to be terrible at this game?
All the forum posters (myself included) never seem to have more than 120 D Wouldn't the more experienced spend more time talking?
28 replies
Open
Putin33 (111 D)
06 Sep 11 UTC
Canada opposes water as a human right
Seriously, wtf.

http://www.canada.com/mobile/iphone/story.html?id=b65b35fd-477f-4956-98f4-c17a46fe3e26&k=40211
41 replies
Open
guak (3381 D)
06 Sep 11 UTC
Persia needed in Ancient Med.
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=66137&msgCountryID=3

It is not too late, not an enviable position but a nice challenge. Definitely needed for the game to regain a semblance of balance.
2 replies
Open
fiedler (1293 D)
06 Sep 11 UTC
WANTED! NEW ENGLAND WANTED!
Opportunity to take charge of a well placed England with strong possibilities for growth and excellent remuneration offered from inevitable draw.
1 reply
Open
Geofram (130 D(B))
01 Jun 11 UTC
**OFFICIAL - Summer Gunboat News**
Really sorry about the delay with game three. It will happen as soon as we figure out the technical issue with replacing this one player. I think we're going to forgo the 4th game (round 2 only has 3 anyway), that way the first leg will be done by end-June, leaving July for the second leg and August for the finals.
375 replies
Open
Riphen (198 D)
06 Sep 11 UTC
So..did we find out..
To all in the Public Press World Game shit storm that was canceled.

Did we find out before the cancel who was accused? And if not what was the reason for not giving us the names. Or did they just Cancel it?
0 replies
Open
baumhaeuer (245 D)
05 Sep 11 UTC
Epic youtube comment inside
(not by me)
5 replies
Open
DurpDurp (100 D)
06 Sep 11 UTC
I am confused.
Before bashing, yes I have read the help section.
5 replies
Open
diplomat554 (2104 D)
06 Sep 11 UTC
Please draw this game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=67199
Whatever Germany is trying to accomplish, this is still a dead draw. Turkey, please hit the button. Otherwise, mods, please draw this.
81 replies
Open
DeathMuncher (0 DX)
06 Sep 11 UTC
Panama canal
Ok, this may sound dumb, but I can't figure it out. Does central America on the world board have a panama canal? It doesn't have a costal designation so is it possible to move from the east side of south America to the west side through there?
5 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
04 Sep 11 UTC
Dip Smack Fantasy Footballers!!!!
DON'T FORGET: Live Draft today (Sunday, 9-4-11) 4PM EST.
7 replies
Open
Lando Calrissian (100 D(S))
05 Sep 11 UTC
Maltese Summer/Gone with the Wind (comment thread)
5 replies
Open
SirLoseALot (441 D)
05 Sep 11 UTC
Help - moderator check War of Nations-2
seems like some unspoken help happening:
aust helps Germany
Austr helps Turkey
hmmmm. . .and on first tries
1 reply
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
30 Jul 11 UTC
Storytime With Obi
Well, krellin posted a story, and asked for honest opinions, and I gave mine...and was askedn, then by fiedler and a few others to submit something of mine, then. This is part of a larger work I'm working on, so please bear that in mind, this is NOT meant to be a stand-alone piece...I'll be posting the section I have here in three parts, plus a short "Prologue" just to explain what this is all about. Critique, enjoy, be hoenst...and God help you all. ;)
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mapleleaf (0 DX)
30 Jul 11 UTC
Hey Clauso-jew, she's not dirty at all. She washes everyday with the finest holocaust soap. Who knows? Maybe I was soaping my ass with your Bubie this morning. lol.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
30 Jul 11 UTC
I nod off for a few hours, and suddenly there are plenty of people giving comments...

I guess that's what happens when maple's your #1 troll fan (admit it, maple, don't hold back now...it's OK...we all know how you really feel...)

Well, to the OTHERS who were courteous enough to respond, to all, thanks, adn then, on the personal level:

@ZaZa:
I do like Hemmingway, actually...so if my story reminds you of that, I'd be inclined to keep it (though it's nowhere as good as the worst scribblings of his...but he had a philosophy for writing that I like--write a ton of stuff, and just keep churning it out, even if it sucks, because amdidst all the crap, there might jsut be one or two good lines or ideas, and then from those you build and get it better and better until eventually you have something decent. :)

But I was trying--if I was working off of or inspired by anyone else's style, I guess--to write it more like D.H. Lawrence (minus any sexual references...so far, anyway, I don't feel the need to parade that out here in every section, so I don't know if I'll have that in this part of the story or not) than Hemmingway, hence the 2 guys/2 girls setup and their going to a cafe and what'll go on afterward; if you've ever read "Women In Love" by him, my idea for this story overall is like that mixed with "Eugene Onegin" and set against a backdrop of "Carmen" with the modern issues...the reason I like Lawrence (and T.S. Eliot here, too, though he's obviously a poet and not a novelist, at least on the whole) is that they'd place plenty of literary and cultural references in their stories along with their descriptions to try and enrich the feeling of the story...so really their writing philosophy/view is one I share:

The actual story should be understandable and coherent even if you don't understand a single refernece, and then for every reference the reader does pick on it should make it all the better.

So I'm no D.H. or T.S., but yeah, that's definitely my reason for writing the way I do (except for the sentences, which everyone's pointed out, and I agree with and will work on for Part 2.)

As for the whole dialouge/setting description imbalance, yeah, I noticed that too; it isn't as bad in context is really all I can say there, since in the greater context of the otehr parts preceding that one that I have there's plenty of dialogue and such...if that were a stand-alone story, you'd be totally right, but it is sort of balanced out in the long run, and i think r=from this point foward it's more even in Parts 2 and 3 anyway, it was mostly just to describe and get the feeling of the cafe established.

But I'm glad you think it flows well, thank you. :)

@Invictus:

Thanks for the compliment about the cafe.

The diaogue is definitely really simple and pretty banal in Part 1, but that was sort of intentional, I wanted THAT to feel like some really unimportant chatter, for a variety of reasons:

Parts 2 and 3 have a LOT more heightened dialogue, and so, the same way "Women In Love" has sort of tradeoffs between simple, really who-cares dialogue and then heightened, this-is-really-thinking-too-much dialogue, I wanted to start with the simpler stuff, because I felt if I came out of the gate with higher dialogue right away then it'd come off as Obi writing a Socratic dialogue...again. ;)

Plus, I want/hope for the dialogue to come to sort of show how banal that previous dialogue was, as some characters are going to continue on that "Gilmore Girls" path of shallowness and pretentious speech, and others are not, so I want a contrast there.

@Mujus:

Thanks for the compliments on those parts... :)

Like I've said, I totally agree with the sentence issues, which seems to be the main complaint of everyone, so hopefully I'll do better on that in Part 2.

And LOL, yes, I DID mean Spanish SPEAKERS, and what's weird is I DID type that in, so I don't know if I accidentally deleted that when posting or what, but somehow I lost that word, I re-read that last night and facepalmed in full that I left that out...I live in LOS ANGELES COUNTY, and I failed to correctly point out a Spanish speaker and just referred to them as "Spanish." FAIL... XD

And yeah, the character intros aren't part of teh story, they're there because these sort of traits about the characters have already been established about the characters by this point, so instead of giving a long-winded plot summary on who's been doign what for all this time to the T, I decided just to say who these people are and only very basically sketch out what's immediately relevant to the scene (more of that sort of "fill-in" background stuff will proceed my posting Part 2, since all Part 1 is, really, is simply describing the cafe and getting the characters there, so Part 2 actually features things happening, rather than just my describing things for 8000 words. ;)

@denis:

I'll wait for the rest of your critique to respond, I want to see where you're going with that (and I thought of that, but I didn't want this to become a play and become too dialogue-heavy, and also wanted to avoid anyone actually saying "Don Juan" in any phonetically-spelled way yet, because without the proper prefacing, I thought that sort of intro could come across as racist...it's the sort of thing Mark Twain SPECIALIZED in wit his books, and he wasn't a racist--I wouldn't call him one, anyway--but this being a different time than Twain's, with different standards, I decided to steer clear of that.)

@Mafialligator:

Economical use of wording again, check... :)

And I agree that I DO ahve some bad adjective use in there, which I can only really call bad adjective use...I just clearly need some more appropriate words to convey what I mean in those instances.

(I have to admit, though, the "boorish" one wasn't one that came to mind in that department...I KNEW writing it in there that it wasn't really what boorish generally refers to, but I was going for a bit of personification there, ascribing a human quality--boorishness--to a non-human thing...so yeah, I could change that no problem to another word, and might, but in any case, I do know what the word really means, I was just trying to sue it slightly differently for effect.)



OK.

So, thanks to everyone for their feedback, and I'll post Part 2 as soon as I'm done writing AND re-reading it immediately afterward it this time (so hopefully those language foibles will be caught and tagged.)

I'd be further along with it right now...but I have to do Algebra studying right now :/

But yeah, I'll definitely try and post that within the same timeframe as I did the first part, and thanks again to those who gave feedback.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
30 Jul 11 UTC
Also, one more quick note on the description/dialogue thing:

That's again probably my trying to relate back to D.H. Lawrence--my favorite 1900-present novelist--as he often has blocks of description, where he lets it go and tries to describe things in an ambient sort of way, and then there are after that, often, pages and pages that are almost compelte dialogue, and so you have description blocks that build and start slow, and then a bunch of dialogue that goes fast, sort of like if you're pushing something up a hill and then you let it go.

So anyway, that's more of what I was trying to do with the dialogue as well, since I really like that style of writing myself--for plays and novels alike...yeah, it's been thousands of words, I can mention Shakespeare now: he'll do the same thing, have Hamlet give a fuck-off long soliloquy and then have a quick bam-bam-bam back-and-fotth between he and Horatio or Polonius or R&G or whoever.

So yeah, I try and write that way myself..I could probably make it a bit more balanced, but yeah, if anyone wondered or cared--besides maple, who we all know cares just too deeply for words--that's why I have it that way.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
31 Jul 11 UTC
@obi

First, I didn't read the prologue. Prologues are for Russian novels that are 10,000 pages and have 500 characters or for SF/Fantasy novels with particularly complicated universes. If you need a prologue for a novella, something is wrong.

Second, after reading the first paragraph I could tell this would have been a story in High School that I wouldn't read and still get an A on the assignment. I hope that doesn't sound too harsh, but it is the immediate impression I got.

You claim you want this work to be a commentary about pretentiousness? Wouldn't it be better to have the narrator be very non-pretentious? A narrator who used simple sentences and spoke in an unpretentious manner could create a great contrast to the characters that you're commenting on. Otherwise, it's not a satire/commentary; it's just a story about pretentious people told in a pretentious manner.

I'll fully admit that I'm probably not the audience you're going for and I realize that my suggestion is a drastic rewrite; I just feel that you're trying too hard to be great and it shows.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
31 Jul 11 UTC
And, to be a bit more specific:

Get rid of all parentheticals; you don't need them. Ever. Use semi-colons sparingly; if the ideas aren't immediately connected don't use them. Add some shorter sentences. It hurts to read so many long, drawn-out sentences one after another.

For example:

"It was an oddity, this war of words over something so simple as the name of the place, but it had been that very same oddity which had distinguished the Café de Don Juan from the many other competitors in consumer-rich Los Angeles, and it was this reputation of the café as a place for debate and discourse among the self-appointed aesthetes and elites of the aesthetic and elitist worlds that had garnered the café enough publicity that it had somehow managed to stay in business for all these many years."

There is no reason this needs to be one sentence. It's like you're trying to run a marathon against yourself.


"It was an oddity, this war of words over something so simple as the name of the place, but that is what had distinguished the Café de Don Juan from the many other competitors in consumer-rich Los Angeles. The cafe had a reputation as a place for debate and discourse among the self-appointed aesthetes and elites of the aesthetic. These elitist worlds that had garnered the café enough publicity that it had somehow managed to stay in business for all these many years."
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
31 Jul 11 UTC
The funny thing is, when fiedler and krellin--who are both yet to read this, and they're the ones who told me to write this in the first place, haha--suggested I post something, I was actually going to just dig up and re-post something from my HS/first year at college days...

So it wasn't an assignment, at least... :)

The sentences being too long, I know...

And then it's not a real "Prologue' for my story, it's background/exposition information, as this isn't a self-contained short story, it's part of something larger I'm trying to write, and as things have already happened and characters have long sinced been introduced already, it doesn't do any good to "re-introduce them" 5 chapters in all over again, "So, you know who he is, but anyway, to tell you again, his name was Antoine H. Andrews, a lithe man of..." etc.

;)

So I just gave those character bits at the beginning for WbDip purposes only, it's not part of teh actual story.

As far as the pretentiousness goes...

Now, when the two characters that have had inner moments of reflection so far--Christina and Antoine, both on the whole "sun/moon" schpiel--speak internally, I WANT the narration there to be pretentious-sounding and over-Romanticized, that's part ofn their characters, and at this point I'm in their head and no longer third-person omniscient.

So what's an example of it being too pretentious third-person omniscient, ie, when I'm describing the cafe at the beginning...there's definitely some bad language in there (that I've fixed on my Word copy now, as uclabb pointed out some really terrible ones) but where is it "pretentious," since I see that as more of what those inner thoughts about a "bloodied sun" by Christina/Antoine are and the like...
mapleleaf (0 DX)
31 Jul 11 UTC
obi. You are full of shit. A common jew trait.

Answer me with the word "yes" or the word "no".

Do you have even ONE complete work? It can be a poem, short story, or play.

Yes or no?
And your wife is full of day laborers, a common whore trait.
Mujus (1495 D(B))
31 Jul 11 UTC
I totally agree with the Ab-Man on the narration. Sure, you can be artistic and idiosyncratic and play around with pretentious narration, but that's definitely going to cut down on the number of people this story will appeal to. I guess the question is whether it's just intended as a personal exercise in writing in a certain way, or if it's intended to reach out to a wider audience. Ab, good job on the sentence rewrites. Direct and clear. Obi, watch out for that British influence in anything short of a longish novel--they spend pages and pages on background and setting before the reader even sees a glimmer of plot, and while that's engaging to many readers, it won't work in anything shorter than a book. Which is why it's British novels that are so popular, and not British short stories. ;-) How's that for a sweeping generalization??
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
31 Jul 11 UTC
Of course not--works are never complete, even when they're published, authors continue to rework them and revise them...

But you know, maple, I've posted a story, krellin's posted, Thucy's offered...

Would you be so bold as to unveil one of your masterpieces?

I know my Jew-brain could never handle the magnificence, but still...to quote the great Fiedler on the Roof--oh, sorry, Jewish reference, you probably wouldn't like it, then--if you didn't, why, you'd have to be "astoundingly full of SHIZZLE."

Come on, maple!

Please? :D <--You KNOW you want to shut that up...
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
31 Jul 11 UTC
@Mujus:

It's a good thing I intend it to be a book, then. :)

Not too long a book, I don't think I can pull off something Moby Dick-sized (picked that especially for you, maple, a "dick" joke's just awaitin' for you) but something shorter..."Of Mice an Men" is relatively short, that's not a bad size, or something like "To Kill A Mockingbird."

(Though for British short stories...

At least two come to mind at the start, D. H. Lawrence and, of course, everyone's favorite detective, the great Sherlock Holmes' stories written by the good Dr. John Watson...who was advised a bit on what to write by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.) :)
mapleleaf (0 DX)
31 Jul 11 UTC
Stupid kike is incapable of an HONEST one word answer. Fucking typical full-of-shit blabbermouth jew.

I've never CLAIMED to be a writer, you POSEUR jew cunt. Consider yourself exposed. You've never written anything. This tripe is simply another one of your mindless forum rants, rather than "a story that you're working on". Prologue my ass. Absolutely hilarious.

It's time to mute you and the other sheeny again.

This Forum is about to become classier(for me, anyway).
HA I WIN!
krellin (80 DX)
31 Jul 11 UTC
Ugh....certainly not something targeted at me. Coincidently, my sci-fi story was not intended for the likes of you...

The description that some people love....wow. I can't possibly imagine that even half of that is relevant...and frankly I couldn't get through it. I scanned it and moved on. It was so cumbersome, overburdened with details I have to believe are completely unnecessary...and therefore distracting and wasting my time.. For example the debate about who owned the place...why do I care? If it's relevant, play it out later, instead of just bludgeoning us with descriptions.

I like Abge comment about it supposed to be a satire about pretentiousness written by a pretentious narrator. That kind of make me hate the narrator. Not a fan of pretentiousness...and therefore have no interest in reading something pretentious.

It is *very* possible that there is something good here. It is very possible that your efforts in putting together a description are worth it...except that you wrote terribly unreadable paragraphs. Paragraphs should stick to an idea, but so many of these paragraphs seem to be a bunch of related ideas mashed together....break 'em up, and then maybe it will be imminently more readable.

You have a lot of well thought out ideas...you just don't convey them in a very readable manner.

When it got to the dialogue, it was too witty by half...Someone mentioned Gilmore Girls. lol Not really familiar with Gilmore Girls....watched half and episode once and never watched it again. I understand that your dialogue is trying to set up some relationships....the whole back and forth about French when the other guy is looking for a parking spot....In retrospect, maybe it was kind of witty and might play well in a comedy. Perhaps I was just so damned irritated after wondering when your description was going to end that I was in no mood for your dialogue!

By the way, the style of bludgeoning us with all the description, and then switching over to pure dialogue....I don't like it. I don't like that the writing style completely changes, like it was two separate authors.

Maybe take that description and break it up and feed it to us in bits within the dialogue.

For example, driving to the club, "Hey, did you hear about the owners? blah blah blah"

"Yeah," and then the driver swerves to avoid something...." and you remember how to pronounce the name, right?"

"Yeah, yeah...."

"Sure you do. Just like you understand French, right?"

they pull up....NOW you can tell us what the exterior walls look like. Feed me the description as it occurs. That way I am not bludgeoned with the information, and it gives you a chance to break up that monotonous dialogue.

Stuff *IS* happening during the dialogue....isn't it? So tell us about it.

This is not all negative. Again...well thought out ideas. I just think they need to be *completely* rearranged, properly punctuated, and then fed to us in an appropriate way at the appropriate time. I don't NEED to know everything about the club. I don't NEED to know that it is a ridiculously pretentious place right of the bat. You can build up that pretentiousness as you feed me the description as, in parallel, we see the characters (I assume) getting into pretentious debates themselves. So you get to mock them AND the bar at the same time. Does that make sense?

Anyway, that's what I have to say for now.

I out trolled Mapleleaf
rayNimagi (375 D)
31 Jul 11 UTC
I read the first couple of paragraphs, and skipped everything else due to time constraints.

I like it.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
31 Jul 11 UTC
uh oh.

my response to krellin was lost...

and that was a long one...well, whatever, if you want a response, let me know, krellin, and otherwise, i'll just focus on completing this thing (it might be good or bad or boring, but i'm going to at least finish these three parts!) :)
fiedler (1293 D)
31 Jul 11 UTC
@Obi - Okay, read most of your story, skipped some parts. I refuse to read unbroken blocks of text of more than 6 lines.

I agree with most of what krellin said. You have a LOT of irrelevant details. You need to be a bit more picky about what you define as interesting! Does arguing about where to park really excite you?

My big question is: do you have a plot? I suspect you are just hoping one will magically appear if you write enough words. But this is not how it works! That wise-old-tease mapleleaf is correct about bricks and mortar. You MUST have a plot first, then hang the details on it.

But hey, you gets loads of points for enthusiasm and having the balls to post. Work on your skills and I reckon you'll be good.

@Maple - you and wifey smear yourselves with Jew fat??? Ewwwww
I'll bet you smell like bagels.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
31 Jul 11 UTC
I do, actually, have a plot.

The story on the whole centers around Antoine and Christina as the male/female leads, Haley as a foil for Christina, a character not mentioned here foils Antoine, and a LARGE cast of secondary, tertiary, and incidental characters.

This is meant to be something of a travel piece and a commentary on different matters (I've already mentioned a few) under one big umbrella of what people and scoiety says and what they actually are.

This is done as the characters in question go through both the phases of putting on
that opera, "Carmen"--which is itself chosen for a reason--and travel from place to place, speaking to people and trying to develop and build up their own imgaes as they want, which varies from person to person based on who that character is and who they've met in the plot; we have an immigrant who's trying to be a Mexican, an American, a Mexican-American, and dominate whatever room she's in, because she feels if she doesn't dominate, she slips through the cracks. We have a guy with a lot of ideas and absolutely no direction, and so meeting these people are his way of trying to find that direction and apply those ideas.

Both are trying to define and redefine themselves, and both find something of what they want in that definition in the other, Antoine feeds off of the sort of fire and determination Christina has and he ultimately lacks, and in Antoine Christina has the sort of passive listener of a person with whom she feels she can confide in; she's trying to juggle all these masks and appear perfect and on top to everyone, and she doesn't need to do that with Antoine.

So they try and find solace in one another.

But they're at odds here; again, she's an immigrant, and she lives in that near-squalor fifth-rate condo I mentioned on the Skid Row side of that Theatre/Movies District of LA, and Antoine lives on the other side (hence the reason for putting the Cafe de Don Juan where it is, in the middle, and building it up as a place for discussion, this is ultimately intended to be the moment those things above out about one another) and so that plays into this too--

They're going to first meet, as this story opens, on the one place where I KNOW I can describe the atmosphere and feeling to a T--

The city bus.

(Hey, you write what you know, and I've been writing here for two years about the people I meet and the experiences I have on those busses...that's some of the best stuff I have to go on, and some of those people really were characters...)

But they're going to meet there, near the start, bussing to a college (I haven't decided whether I'm going to make that UCLA, Northridge, or make one up...I haven't been to UCLA, but it makes sense, Northridge I will go to soon, but it's out of the immediate LA metro area, so its less plausible, it's still relatively-close, but I don't think it's close enough, so I'm thinking since I made the cafe up anyway I might as well try and make up a college, another place I can describe, I guess, as I spend 12 hours a day there or bussing to and from there.)

She's doing this because her family's poor, but she's an exceptional, perfect-perfect student and a minorty, so she got in via financial aid.
He's doing this because he's an idealist who's anti-oil and emmitions and all that, and so does it as a form of "protest," thinking it's a larger action than it is (and ignoring the fact that public transportation still emits, but, like I said, he's the idealist with no grounding, she's the realist with no levity.)

So they're going to meet for a while just on the bus, and then go their seperate ways each day, as she's a Poly-Sci and Music major, and he's a (wait for it) Philosophy major (oh, come on, like you didn't see that coming...I said he's inspired by Eugene Onegin a lot, which is true, but I'd be lying if I didn't say this isn't also a charicature of my most idealist, unrealistic points and other folks I know who are, believe it or not, even more idealist and nuts about philosophy and all that Obi stuff than I am.) :p

So they do this and split up each day, but this being the age of social networking that it is, they do a lot of initial talking texting, on a social network site, through friends, on the bus, and, in keeping with the defining oneself/image theme, they each try and put their best virtual--see, false--face foward.

Those friends are the aforementioned Haley, who's also a Ms. Perfect, like Christina, but a lot more sure of herself as she's generally gotten what she's wanted her entire life, and knows how to get what she wants...she's warm and outgoing, but knows how to use that to her advantage, she's not above being Machiavellian with a smile on her face and playing dumb while all the while pulling strings. She has a double major as well, Poly Sci, with Christina, and Philosophy, with Antoine, so she's the go-between for the two for the while. Christina and Haley both sing in the production, as does Lance, who's ALSO rather accomplished, in singing in that production and being a track star as well, and Antoine's friend.

So, just like "Women In Love," we have two men, two women, and two relationships about to develop, with the whole thing really being a relationship of four, as, agkin, the theme being defining onself and others, the plot is essentially a series of who's-with-who-at-what-time events, as information and perceptions about one another in that group change and grow and sour and so on and so forth with every passing day of the performance and every new encounter these people share with strangers.

Which is why I picked "Carmen" as the backdrop of all of this--that, like "Eugene Onegin" and "Women In Love," ultimately boils down to a cast of three or four mains that have different perceptions of one another and what's fair and what's love and so on, and that changes based on who's been with who lately and what some of those extra characters they meet say.

EVERYONE has a tie to everyone else.

Christina and Antoine have a thing.
Lance is going to be bi (this is a group that NEEDS literary representation that's not slanderous...maybe I'll fail and maybe I shouldn't try, but I think I can, I feel strongly about this, and I'm going to give it my best shot.); Haley's going to have a thing for him, and he'll have a secret thing for Antoine.
Christina, Lance, and Haley are in "Carmen" together.
Christina and Haley share a class.
Antoine and Haley share a class.
Christina and Antoine share the bus.

And so on and so forth.



As far as an A-B-C-D-E-Finish plot, this isn't like that; this is more episodic, the way my all-time favorite Dickens works, "Great Expectations" and "David Copperfield" are...

This just isn't going to take place over ten or twenty years.

But like those, it's a story more driven by the characters' interactions and evolutions than a single, over-arching story arc; I prefer authors and works, generally, that have a few excellent character-driven story arcs than one massive plot-driven arc that tries to be the masterpiece story of the century.

It happens so rarely in literary history, you can arguably count on one hand how many authors have REALLY had that kind of a story live up to it...

And you can be assured they've all been dead for hundreds of years.

A lot of this story is about the characters' interactions, not just what they say but how they say it--there are so many communicative differences and foibles in our modern day with the Internet and text messaging and e-mail and forums--like this one--and so on, that who you are, I'd argue, ultimately is a contingent and not a concrete point, it changes dramatically based on who you're talking to and how you're talking to them, as you try and define them and yourself.

And that's the story, really.

It's a mess of things, some of which I'm sure to screw up royally, and some of which are probably bad ideas, and some which might not mesh, and some I might cut.

But they're all their to start with and try with...

And I'd be a fool and a hypocrite and, worst of all, a miserable waste if I didn't at least try and take my shot with all of that.
Gobbledydook (1389 D(B))
31 Jul 11 UTC
I'm tempted to write tl;dr.

But then again I am not very interested in the sort of story that you are writing, so oh well...
fiedler (1293 D)
01 Aug 11 UTC
Good explanation! You've obviously put a lot of thought in. Still not sure you have a plot tho ;) Sounds like an *extremely* ambitious project. In the intervening 50 years before you finish this, why not write a short story classic?

like this:
http://books.eserver.org/poetry/poe/bon-bon.html
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
01 Aug 11 UTC
Because there's no market for short stories like there was back then...

The way things are going, there's barely a market for books that don't feature magic or teen vampires in horrendously-written melodramas...I'm not saying there can't be fantasy series--I read Harry Potter as a teen like most others, it was fun, if not really weighty or anywhere close to as powerful or "legitimate" as work of literature like LOTR is--but those books are just EXCRUCIATINGLY-STUPID AND PANDERING.

I mean, granted, my stuff's pretentious, but at least I try and treat whatever audience I might have for what I right, be it a classroom or this forum or some friend I meet and say "here, read this, will ya?" as if they're intelligent...

Herman Melville had a saying--

He didn't write for idiots.

T.S. Eliot had that same saying.

So my stuff has "Carmen" references, and I've tried to draw from D.H, Lawrence and Eliot and make it episodic like Dickens...

But at least I don't treat my audience as if they can't go two seconds without some C-list teen love story with a teen-ish feel to it and a teenager's-fantasy-of-an-ending to it...

I'm sorry, but when you're biggest problem is which supernatural overly-white boy to date, adn you go around moaning about that, you as a character officially give up the right to be called a strong character, and any author that thinks otherwise gives up their right to be called an intelligent author.



Wow.

That was one rage-fest I didn't see coming today...what were we talking about again?

;)
no you treat your audience like those classmates you have, not as smart as you of course, but youll deign to share your work with them
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
01 Aug 11 UTC
Only in an English class--or thread--would I ever be so presumtuous as to "deign" to share with them.

Stick me in a Physics or Chemistry or Math class--

I'll be as quiet and docile and humble as can be...with GOOD reason:

I suck at all of that. :)

But hey, I'm not going to pretend I don't at least partially know what I'm talking about when I do...that doesn't make me a good writer--that's for my audience to decided--but it does at least make me qualified to talk about writing and not hold back every two seconds for fear of sounding as if I have no business talking about it.

You know my credo:

Better to be honest and arrogant than humble and a liar.

I'm arrogant as hell about literature, for sure.

But I'm open about it, and don't pretend to be otherwise.

Knowing Shakespeare pretty well doesn't make me qualified to preach to abgemacht about engineering or Draug about mathematics.

It just makes me qualified to speak about Shakespeare a bit--and I'm just not going to be apologetic and humble about knowing what I know any more than I would pretend to understand concepts in physics or math that I ahve no clue in hell about.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
01 Aug 11 UTC
(As a side note, it should come as no surprise...

But I have NEVER understood why Humilty is supposed to be a Virtue.

Why is it society demands you be as good as you can possibly be, and tests you for that year after year, gives trophies and millions of dollars to winners...

And then wants them to pretend it's nothing, when clearly it was enough to garner something?

If you're going to reward success as a society, why make that winner hide the fact he or she is overly-successful?)
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
01 Aug 11 UTC
Obi, what I'm going to say may sound harsh, so I want to preface it by saying that I commend your passion, follow-through, and desire to do what you love. I genuinely mean that. With that being said:

I think you write poorly. I'm sorry, but that's my honest opinion. Your sentence structure is overly-complex to a point where it is actually painful to read. By the time you finish a sentence, it's not even clear how you got to that point. You use so many punctuation marks that it's impossible to tell what is a main point and what is secondary, or even tertiary. You use many words where few would do the job just fine; on many occasions, I find myself mentally winded from chocking down a paragraph only to realize it could have been summed up in one sentence.

I'll admit I'm an Engineer and prefer succinct writing, but that hasn't prevented me from enjoying War and Peace, A Tale of Two Cities, Tess of the d'Urbervilles, etc. I do enjoy classical literature quite a lot, but that is not what you sound like.

I realize this is a problem for you, even more so because you don't actually think it's a problem. But, you need to write for your audience, not for yourself; that's just how communication works.

Anyway, we've played this game before, but if you're willing, I'd love to see you try to write something, anything in a clear, succinct manner. That doesn't mean lacking in details--it means lacking in fluff.
mapleleaf (0 DX)
02 Aug 11 UTC
"I realize this is a problem for you, even more so because you don't actually think it's a problem"

abgie + infinity squared.
mapleleaf (0 DX)
03 Aug 11 UTC
humiliation bump.
mapleleaf (0 DX)
04 Aug 11 UTC
This is priceless.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
05 Aug 11 UTC
@abgemacht:

That's a good point and fair criticism--if I'v learned anything from this session it's to try and find a way to simplify my damn sentence structure. (I always go on about how much I dislike Hawthorne or Conrad or Faulkner going on and on in long, run-on sentences, but I'm just as bad a culprit it'd seem, adn don't want to be, so I need to dind that middle ground between Faulkner-long and Hemmingway-short.)

But that's a good point, and you shouldn't be sorry fro bringing it up:

I aspire to be a writer someday, and fiction or philosophy or whatever else, I'd be a pretty poor writer if I were willingly blind to the truth of the matter when it knocks on my door, even if I don't like the truth.

@maple:

Thanks for spamming--it allowed me to see abgmeacht's infinitely-more-valuable message.

What WOULD I ever do wtihout you, maple...

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136 replies
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
05 Sep 11 UTC
200001: A Past Legacy
Every human life on Earth, tomorrow, suddenly vanishes. Mankind is gone for good. But you learn that by the year 200001, either the Apes will rise, or space aliens will come along...SOMEONE will populate Earth once more, and wonder who used to live here. You build a Mt. Mankind: 10 Heads of anyone who's ever lived, and one relic/piece of work of theirs to tell the future who humans were. Who, and what, do you choose?
30 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
04 Sep 11 UTC
15-Center Brazil Needed To Close A 4-Way Draw
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=61388

This draw is locked in if we get a replacement Brazil...if not, Kenya will win via a CD, and that's not right. It's a GREAT position, 15 Centers, and even split in the Americas, and holdings in Europe...someone, join, quickly, please...it's a SURE DRAW if you just help us hold the line!
2 replies
Open
DouweJan (0 DX)
30 Aug 11 UTC
Tribalwars spelers/players
Heren, ik vind dat we het hier ook wel even gezellig kunnen maken?
71 replies
Open
Hugo_Stiglitz (100 D)
29 Aug 11 UTC
Marijuana
Just wanna get a general consensus of the forum's feeling on the drug
Not necesarilly argue the leaglity of it, just why (or why not) you use it.
And what the drug means to you
156 replies
Open
Dunecat (5899 D)
04 Sep 11 UTC
Idea for a new betting system: % instead of # of points
I'd like to suggest a new option in which the required bet for a game is an equal percentage of a player's total points (including those in play) instead of a set number of points. In practice, the relative investment for all players would be more equal and could encourage underdogs to take on the richest players on the site.
22 replies
Open
Pimpernel (115 D)
05 Sep 11 UTC
Live Ancient
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=67163
2 replies
Open
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