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Draugnar (0 DX)
02 Mar 10 UTC
Sailing the Gree Isles - Two More Needed.
gameID=22532
48 hour, Anonymous, WTA, 20 point buy-in
Ancient Med (4 player) Map.
0 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
28 Feb 10 UTC
The Seven Wonders of the MODERN World
The title says it all... what are the Wonders, not just great structures but structures that MEAN something just at the very SIGHT of them... which Seven post-1000 AD are on your list (1. Pyramids DON'T count, they're "honorary" as they're still standing from the old list 2. structures repaired but not BUILT post-1000 such as The Great Wall and Coliseum don't count 3. Can have been already build and destroyed/gone)
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jimgov (219 D(B))
01 Mar 10 UTC
Um, obiwan, I think you misread figle's list. He said "Suez Cannal - without it the world would have been a very different place, as a lifeline of the British Empire." Just because the words British Empire are on a different line doesn't mean it isn't a part of the sentence. That's what the period denotes. Now, apologize.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
01 Mar 10 UTC
lol dude i dunno, i dont think the original list was compiled based on meaning. it was just compiled as the seven structures which inspire the most awe when you look at them.

personally, of things built post 1000 AD, burj dubai is on the list.

If I saw it I'm pretty sure I would gawk for a long long time.
CN tower was pretty amazing, true, (you can see across the great lake!) but burj dubai is EVEN taller.

statue of liberty, maybe, maybe maybe. it's just, it wouldn't be that hard to build now would it.

whereas the pyramids would cost so much money to build that you could never get that to happen, even today.
figlesquidge (2131 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
Thanks Jim.
Obi - that's a fair point, although I think the CN has enough to it anyway.
If you look back at the ancient wonders, whilst yes they all had clear cultural significance, they were all architectural masterpieces as well, and for that reason I don't think the Globe belongs.
Also, if you look through the ancient list, they are all most definitely beautiful, and I think that's fair enough. A wonder of the world is something that a child hears about in stories, something that is integral to cultural backgrounds, and something that couldn't be replaced.
Having thought about it a little more, whilst I still think Suez is key to history, I don't think it fulfils the same criteria to which ancient monuments were selected, so would replace it with instead with Westminster Palace (known to most as Big Ben, which is actually 'just' the bell).
figlesquidge (2131 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
Thuc - interesting points. So would you argue that wonders were selected for their Beauty but also clear demonstration of power & wasteful wealth?
warsprite (152 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
Perhaps we should have a seperate list for enginering wonders.
figlesquidge (2131 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
Fair enough. For that, I think key factors are Scale & any new technologies that had to be invented/significantly improved for the project, and as such the lasting effect of the project be clear.
Iron Bridge - as above
Eiffel Tower - Still gets it for me, was such a technological masterpiece, and the fact it remained the worlds tallest structure into the 20th century is impressive.
Empire State Building - King of early 20th century American boom. No further skyscrapers are listed mainly because modern records are almost inconsequential - if anyone had enough free money the designs can merely be scaled up further to break the record.
Troll A oil rig ~ Maybe just me, but as well as being an immense feat of engineering, I actually quite like the look of it in a functional non-nonsense way.
London Sewer System ~ The original installation, it saved millions of lives and helped transform London&The Thames
--
Not sure what else would go on the list (I'll think about it), but as a Bristolian I'd really like to put the Clifton Suspension Bridge on there although I know its not in the same class.
Note: can you count the internet as being engineered? Clearly not in the sense we mean, but if not it gets a place.
figlesquidge (2131 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
How about TAT-8, the first transatlantic fibre-optic cable?
warsprite (152 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
Perhaps the Panama Canal. The designed so well that the original gates, locks, rail engines are still in use with only routine maintaince, almost a hundred years later. It all operates without a single pump, and generates it's own power.
jimgov (219 D(B))
01 Mar 10 UTC
Maybe the personal computer?
Puddle (413 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
Okay thinking in the spirit of the original 7, structures (more or less) that inspired instant awe or left a strong impression on all, and were known to nearly all people, not just well read people, here a few suggestions from me.

1. Eiffel Tower
2. Statue of Liberty
3. Forbidden City
4. Panama Canal
5. MAD System (Mutually Assured Destruction)
6. Internet
7. Taj Mahal

If the name isnt enough, then it doesnt belong on the list
figlesquidge (2131 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
I could go with that list Puddle, although I would probably swap MAD with Big Ben.
Was just reading through, and whilst I knew they were all truly spectacular creations, I hadn't quite got my head around just the scale of extravagance about the original 7.
Puddle (413 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
I agree Figle, so amended

1. Eiffel Tower
2. Statue of Liberty
3. Forbidden City
4. Panama Canal
5. Big Ben
6. Internet
7. Taj Mahal
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
oops, my bad with the british empire bit, misread that...

obiwanobiwan apologizes to outraged british folks everywhere ;)

As far as the Globe Theatre not being advanced enough to count as a Wonder... in the Theatre context, it does. The Globe wasn't just the site where Shakespeare put on most of his great plays- they literally ALLOWED him to have those plays with its various features that were NOT common and, without them, Shakespeare couldn't have written his plays the way he did, fast and full of effects. The Globe could produce AMAZING effects with cannons and fires and trapdoors and trick props... FAR ahead of its time, some things like the cannons and their pyrotechnics (for magic and explosive scenes, like, say, Prospero using his staff to conjure spirits and fire and such) are not even today widely seen or done... partly because when done WRONG that's it, just like how the Globe nearly ended in 1613, it burned after an effect gone wrong, and from the parts left that were OK and new parts they rebuilt it until 1642 when the theatres were closed.

The Globe is to theatre what the Enterprise is to Star Trek- it's THE ship... the most storied, legendary, has the most legendary captain/writer at the helm, had the most amazing things/plays happen with it... it's THE ship/THE theatre.

I'm still pulling for The Globe Theatre... without it Shakespeare would have likely have altered his plays to such an extent that iconic imagery we know today (Juliet on the Balcony... can't do that without the Globe's balcony, then a big deal, or Hamlet alluding to the heavens above when there was some sort of tarp over that let the sun in and illuminated the painted-on/sewn-on stars... its not clear how often it was used or how much, but it was, and without it, do we lose some of the best lines in Englishb Literature?) or might not have written some of them at all (without the effects, does "The Tempest" get made as his last play... do we lose that great line "Brave new world, with such people in it?" as a result... and what else?)

You NEED the Globe... with all these high-tech towers that are so vertical and boxy and almost the same (sorry, but the Empire, CN and Sears towers all blend a bit simply because they all ARE, at some level, just a huge skyscraper... no great works went on within them, no gods or kings honored... the biggest thing was King Kong on the Empire State Building and that wasn't even real), no matter how tall or impressive...

There;s something about the simplicity, and yet the complexity IN that simplicity, in the Globe Theatre, where a Queen WAS honored, kings and princes and lovers DID appear all the time on that stage, in that unique and specially-shaped theatre... where so much of the English language (and the English people, to an extent? You tell me, Englushmen, how important is Shakespeare and the world of the theatre to your national prestige... at least we in the States here you dig it more that most Yanks here appreciate theatre) came to fruition...

And the BEST WORKS.

Othello.
Macbeth.
Julius Caesar.
The Merchant of Venice.
A Midsummer Night's Dream.
Romeo and Juliet.
King Lear.
Richard III.
The Henriad (Henry IV 1 and 2 and Henry V)

AND, the MOST important piece of non-Biblical literature in the Western Hemisphere EVER to date, so widely known, THE play, THE piece of literature...

HAMLET.
"To be or not to be"
THAT is the question...

And it may not have been asked if not for The Globe! ;)
PirateJack (400 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
7 Wonders of the Modern World... Hmm, that's a toughie. What do you base the criteria on? Physical impressiveness? Cultural contributions? Examples of scientific excellence? There's a lot of choice when you have things like mass production and automated systems. Hell, even things like Pokemon would fit the bill if you take the latter two options.

Still, here's my list:

1) The Large Hadron Collider at CERN - It's a machine that recreates the effects of the Big Bang. Just think about how damn impressive it is that we can even *think* about doing that.

2) The International Space Station - The first multi-national endeavour to put a man-made, habitable object in space permanently.

3) The telephone (and subsequent communications advancements such as TV and the Internet) - The first method of 'instant' communication.

4) Latitude/Longitude - Made true navigation of the unknown world possible, and such an important discovery that the British government put a £20,000 reward on a reliable method of measuring it.

5) Panama Canal - For the same reason as above, it made exploring the Seven Seas ten times safer.

6) Penicillin - It was such a revolutionary drug when it was first discovered that we're still using it to combat what were previously fatal diseases.

7) The Gutenberg Bible/Printing Press - In the same vein as the telephone, it is the predecessor of mass production. It's the sole reason the Reformation was able to go ahead and, in my opinion, is the reason the Western World has evolved from the time of absolute monarchy to democracy. Printing gives books, which induce literacy, which begets education, which gives rise to meritocracy, which allows the common man the chance to become powerful.
KaptinKool (408 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
1) Burj Khalifa

Worlds tallest building. What can't be said about the Burj? It is an absolute marvel, take the worlds 2nd and 22nd tallest buildings, stack them on top of one another, and you have the Burj Khalifa. Lots of pioneering in civil engineering, crazy condensation collection systems, etc. etc. There is absolutely nothing mundane about this building, it exudes power and commands awe.

I don't really care what else is on the list, but the tallest building always has to be there, people respond to maximums, and this resembles the current pinnacle of mans capacity. You simply can't look at the Burj without feeling wonder.
chemkrafty (100 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
How about you guys look at it from this standpoint. 2000 years from now, what mighty structures will people still be talking about? I doubt its the tallest building...that will have been long surpassed. Think EPIC...I believe that's the point that was being made about the cultural significance. If its not culturally significant, it will not make the history books in 2000 years. Think EPIC AWESOMENESS (pyramids) or radically life altering (Roman Aqueducts). I do not have enough knowledge of world structures to make an acceptable list in my mind, but a few of the things I would put on it would be:

- internet
- space station (would be surpassed by the first moon colony)
- some of those large, beautifulo cultural buildings you are all discussing that have meaning to people beyond "its huge or tall"...that's why there are so many religious buildings on the list. They remain and are rebuilt. When the CN Tower, or Empire state building reach a certain point, they will be ripped down and replaced by another tall tower.
KaptinKool (408 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
Well the post was asking for structures, but the internet doesn't even touch the progress in transistors that made computers possible. Almost everything we use every day works because we don't have to use vacuum tubes in computers anymore.

And the biggest and tallest will always inspire. So put it this way:

1) Tallest building in the world
Octavious (2701 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
I don't know. The tallest building in the world is only slightly taller than the next one, and loses the uniqueness that a great wonder should have. In the same way the US Interstate Highway System would be a wonder if it wasn't for all the very similar transport networks found across the globe. I have been giving this far too much thought and got nowhere, so in the end I've just decided to say sod it and written a list of the four things that have genuinely made stare at them with my mouth open in amazement.

1) The US Navy. I have yet to see anything to match the sight of a US fleet in terms of inspiring a feeling of dread/unease/awe.

2) Glastonbury High Street. In a traditional sleepy and quiet small town in England you suddenly find yourself surrounded by shops selling skulls, cloaks, stone daggers, bone daggers, potions, spell books, wands, and crystals while druids strole past on their way to the local pagan temple. This came as one hell of a shock.

3) Wigan Pier. Wigan Pier was something I'd heard about in passing many times. It has global fame, party due to George Orwell's book, and is considered important enough to have major signposts directing tourists to it much the same way that Windsor Castle and Buckingham Palace do. The impact of seeing it therefore, after years of hype and anticipation, left me totally speechless. Anyone who has also had the unique experience of visiting Wigan Pier will understand why.

Bridgewater Carnival. The carnival itself with countless floats and dancers is impressive, but the grand finale where the high street is turned into a river of fire by a hundred squibs is stunning.
Sendler (418 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
highway system in the usa??
i prefer the autobahn system in germany... but I wouldnt count it as a wonder
if any transportation system, maybe japanese railroad system or tokyo public transport
KaptinKool (408 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
@octavia - The Burj Khalifa is 200m taller than the 2nd tallest building. You can't fathom how difficult an increase in height like that is to engineer.
KaptinKool (408 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
there are only 22 buildings in the world that are even 200m tall or over.
KaptinKool (408 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
The Interstate is the bastard child of the Autobahn, Germany innovates, the U.S. replicates.
Panthers (470 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
1. My House
Draugnar (0 DX)
01 Mar 10 UTC
My list is rather pedestrian, but they standout to me.

1. Eiffel Tower
2. Statue of Liberty
3. Brooklyn Bridge (and it's older but smaller sister, the Roebling Suspension Bridge)
4. Golden Gate Bridge
5. Empire State Building (and it's little sister, the Carew Tower)
6. World Trade Center (original twin towers are gone but not forgotten).
7. The Leonard P. Zakim Bunker Hill Bridge in Boston (that cool cable stay bridge)
TaoQiBao (100 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
1. The NASA
2. The internet
3. Penecillin
4. The United Nations
5. The aeroplane
6. The automobile
7. The German Reunification
KaptinKool (408 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
United Nations is a joke.
KaptinKool (408 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
Also the question was about structures.
figlesquidge (2131 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
"1) The US Navy. I have yet to see anything to match the sight of a US fleet in terms of inspiring a feeling of dread/unease/awe." - Well how about the British Navy of Empire days.
KaptinKool (408 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
@figlesquidge - you are totally correct. In fact there really is no force today that represents peak power in any form other than technology. The greatest relative powers are all pre-1000AD.
warsprite (152 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
If you put reative cost to the society, would any modern wonders stackup to the ancient wonders?

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74 replies
Troodonte (3379 D)
02 Mar 10 UTC
Problem with orders
Loading order...
I'm getting this message where i should input orders and I can't input them. Anyone else? Using Firefox.
1 reply
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noiseunit (853 D)
02 Mar 10 UTC
Live Game, Ancient Med, Anonymous gunboat - Booyea
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=22972
6 replies
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Jean d'Arc (236 D)
02 Mar 10 UTC
TUES Gunboat
TUES GUNBOAT BEGINS IN LESS THAN 7MINS
WE NEED TWO MORE BRAVE PLAYERS
0 replies
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Jean d'Arc (236 D)
02 Mar 10 UTC
Tues Gunboat
JOIN THE TUES GUNBOAT GAME WE NEED 4 MORE MEMBERS TO JOIN STARTS IN 17MINS.
0 replies
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orathaic (1009 D(B))
02 Mar 10 UTC
Religious?
I know i bring this up a bit when talking about the universe (whether that is in religious debates or not) but this guy explains it better than i do: http://www.ted.com/talks/sean_carroll_on_the_arrow_of_time.html
10 replies
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obiwanobiwan (248 D)
02 Mar 10 UTC
FIRST EVER WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
gameID=22941

Gunboat, and a variant, but I'll take it... I LOVE fleets, and my 11 here served me well. ;) FINALLY!
4 replies
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sean (3490 D(B))
01 Mar 10 UTC
Looting
A sign of a dysfunctional unequal messed up society or Humanity's inherent nature coming to the fore ?
17 replies
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dskippy (139 D)
26 Feb 10 UTC
Fleet Rome
Why is Fleet Rome disabled? I would like to play it in my next game.

-mike
21 replies
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doofman (201 D)
02 Mar 10 UTC
live now please
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=22961
0 replies
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Boodaboy (104 D)
02 Mar 10 UTC
Live Med. Gunboat 30 min start.
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=22960
1 reply
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Boodaboy (104 D)
02 Mar 10 UTC
Live Med. Gunboat 30 min start.
Game is http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=22957

Just looking for some late night fun.
0 replies
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doofman (201 D)
02 Mar 10 UTC
live game for anyone online and interested
7bet, 5min phase, wta, anon
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=22956
0 replies
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oyenegra (100 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
Which Country is Best in World Variation?
I'm fascinated by this new World Map Variation, and I wanted to see if I could start deciphering which countries are the best to play. So I took some statistics on previously/currently playing games online.
14 replies
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wydend (0 DX)
02 Mar 10 UTC
New 101d WTA.
Anonymous Players
36 Hour Phases
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=22925
0 replies
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thatwasawkward (4690 D(B))
02 Mar 10 UTC
Live Ancient Mediterranean Gunboat game starting in half an hour.
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=22941

Come play!
7 replies
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Happymunda (0 DX)
02 Mar 10 UTC
NEW WORLD GAME(WORLD WAR 3(THE ONE WHERE......)
hey can you guys join my world-wide game, it has 8 more days and only 5 people the turns are 1 day and the pot is 5 per person
0 replies
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Jean d'Arc (236 D)
02 Mar 10 UTC
live boat
WE NEED PPL TO SIGN UP FOR LIVE GUNBOAT...-4
only 2 more spots
0 replies
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curtis (8870 D)
02 Mar 10 UTC
live gunboat in 13 minutes
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=22949
2 replies
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Stukus (2126 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
What do you do when you can't do anything?
So you're in a Diplomacy game. Too weak to do anything, don't want to attract the attention of the superpowers, what do you do?
15 replies
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tmg996 (147 D)
02 Mar 10 UTC
Tell me you dont love this!
Dont ya love it when somebody goes offline then comes back while their ally protects their cd land, then they pop back up out of no where and kill you! is that even legal? if it is that should be changed
9 replies
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5nk (0 DX)
02 Mar 10 UTC
Live wta gunboat in 1 hr
2 replies
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5nk (0 DX)
02 Mar 10 UTC
Live AncMed WTA Gunboat
0 replies
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klokskap (550 D)
02 Mar 10 UTC
Need Austria replacement IN VERY GOOD POSITION
1 reply
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chemkrafty (100 D)
01 Mar 10 UTC
Drawing or not drawing
So when you are in a situation with a 2v2 stalemate, one side wants to draw but the other side refuses. (there is no possible way to break through without a stab) What do you do?
16 replies
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azzaron (1765 D)
02 Mar 10 UTC
New Live Game!!!
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=22937
2 replies
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azzaron (1765 D)
02 Mar 10 UTC
New Live Game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=22934
2 replies
Open
KarlTheLittle (311 D)
02 Mar 10 UTC
Live Gunboat in 30 Min.
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=22935
1 reply
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mel1980 (0 DX)
01 Mar 10 UTC
Live Gunboat Classic
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=22932
starts in 30 mins, 15 join
1 reply
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