i'd say clyde since it's kinda like syria - it only comes into play in attacks on england's north.

No Clyde is awesome. Critical to slip in there because it threatens EDI and LVP while also commanding a presence over the major waterways of Irish Sea, Norwegian Sea and North Atlantic. Any France or Russia should take heed.

I originally put forward Tuscany because no one else mentioned it. The only critical stalemate line it is in is the SouthEastern where it could be replaced by Rome if Rome was just enlarged to include it. Finland is close because it shares most of usefulness with Gulf of Bothnia, but beats Tuscany because of late game land powers like Turkey and Austria trying to win.

I vote Tuscany. NOT CLYDE

Actually, Centurian, I've seen a couple of pseudo-stalemates in games where they were eventually broken by slowly sliding up a fleet to Tuscany to break GoL. I've seen less use for Clyde, despite that it is adjacent to some important territories. I would say this is because any attacking France or Russia have better options in Wales, Yorkshire, and any of the SCs, unless England was absolutely bent on keeping those safe and you have to sneak around to Clyde of all places. Once you have either Wales or Yorkshire (especially with a convoy), your attack on the English homeland is almost certain to succeed, barring massive strategic retreat to protect your own homeland, and putting anything in Clyde is just superfluous and drains the units momentum for when you want to move on from England.

Syria.

OMGNSO, Heligoland is often cited as evidence of the brilliance of the design of the game, for specifically the reasons you mentioned. But is it ever actually used?

it is used, but not often occupied possibly. and i would argue that an increase in how often a province is occupied does not necessarily mean an increase in its relevance, or a decrease in its irrelevance.

Heligoland Bight has only one use... Grabbing Ger by the balls. It is hardly used tho as it is such a blatant attack.

I don't see Baltic Sea used much. I use Clyde a lot as 1) it surprises everyone. 2) it colours Iceland in to your colour :)

Finland can be pretty pointless if Scandinavia isn't heavily contested.

Well Chrisp if we are talking massive invasion then its better to pass up Clyde for the big names. But if you get a single fleet in Clyde it can cause England a headache and its easy because the entry routes usually prompt England to cover his centres (depending on which way you are coming in from).

I agree with Submariner, changing Iceland's colour is nice for intimidation factor.

I'd also like to add Tunis to this list. Even though it's an SC, I've very rarely seen a war fought over it.

I'd say Syria. Finland and the Barents Sea are used by Britain against Russia, and vice versa. Skaggerak isnt critical, but fairly important for someone trying to take Scandinavia. Tuscany is crucial to break a Western Mediterranean stalemate line.

Another vote for Syria here.

Syria. Clyde has tactical value when trying to blockade/invade England etc

Well the idea is that Syria is definately the worst, but the second worst is up for grabs

They are all important in particular situations in some games but i guess one could say that syria and maybe North Africa have the least likelihood of being moved to in any given game.

as a side issue, whats the SC least likely to be part of ANY winning game?

I have no idea, but I'm guessing Rome, Ankara, Rumania, or any other one. To be honest, they're probably all equally likely for all I know.

syria's playing a huuuuge role in one my games right now.... which is probably why babak wants to change the topic lolz

Can I see the game?

well syria is no 1
no 2 north africa
dont underestimate clyde and albania
in one of my games we (italy and turkey) convoyed from albania to clyde to attack the germans there...

Wait... Germans in Clyde...

I hope you're not going to start commenting on their active game aoe.
Maybe it is, but generally Syria does virtually unused. North Africa however is often used when setting up or taking down the Western Med stalemate situations.

I think this discussion shows well that there isn't a province with little - possible - impact on the game. The game is simply too brilliant for that.

Syria is far from the least relevant for one reason: Lepanto.

Clyde gets my vote.

I don't think you can do much with Clyde that you can't do with attacking fleets in the surrounding oceans.

Centurian, even with a lone fleet I think every other English territory is more important. Wales and Yorkshire are stronger tactically, and the others, with varying strengths offer the almighty SC. Clyde is really a backdoor, and only if England appears to have the more juicy territories covered. In that case, your attack might be mitigated anyway without backup.

North Africa is pretty important because the Straits of Gibraltar are an extremely popular stalemate point. Syria is occupied far more than Clyde and North Africa though, simply because of the Lepanto. Hel removes a lot of E-G tension early on. Try playing a game without it.

I know that we debate lots of issues in these forum without any realistic hope of actually arriving at a conclusion (Gay marriage, cyberbullying etc, etc, etc..) but we really ought to be able to decide something so simple as what is the least important province in diplomacy. If only by a straight forward debate followed by a vote.

I'd have to vote for syria. of all the land provinces mentioned, besides n.africa, it's the only one that doesn't border two centers. concerning n.africa, its importance in helping to break into and out of the med gives it a higher value in my opinion. i also think that the key to the lepento is the e.med, not syria.

A little bit of a defense for Syria.

As Russia, occupying Syria means the death knell for Turkey. With an army there and in Armenia you really put Turkey in a rough place. If only for that I'd say Syria isn't quite the wasteland people say, because when it's used it's devastating.

I'll stand by my feeling that Bohemia is pretty meaningless as long as Germany and Austria survive. Even then, I often see Bohemia stay red he whole game because whoever picks up the pieces of Austria usually secures Vienna through Galicia and Budapest.

I'll disagree on the Bohemia point because Austria is the country that generally goes down first, and because of that it becomes a key point in the Germany-Russia conflict since it grants access to Galicia if the Russian has fortified his borders well enough.