Forum
A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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paggas (184 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
On the metagame
What happens if time runs out for a phase and some players have not finalized their orders?
6 replies
Open
Kompole (546 D)
16 Jan 09 UTC
Ultra fast game - JOIN!!!
1hour per phase.
0 replies
Open
Pandarsenic (1485 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
Pause game, please?
http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=7770
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=7770
Tarablus (France) is the only member of this game who hasn't voted for a pause when two members have to leave for a while. He has stated, and I quote, "No pauses ever."
16 replies
Open
Zilph (100 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
Variant Games!
One of my games finally ended (thanks, Babak) so I have points again! There were a couple of variant games I was planning to make/participate in:
16 replies
Open
in watercolor (107 D)
16 Jan 09 UTC
Retreating.
Here is the situation: Austria has two supply stations left (Tunisia and Vienna). Turkey and Germany control every territory touching Vienna as it is attacked from Bohemia with a support move in Budapest. The game does not allow Vienna to retreat to Bohemia and all other spaces are occupied. Will we have to wait the 24 hours until this phase is over to progress? Will the game progress even then? Is there anything we can do to speed this up?
2 replies
Open
Yrt - Zach (108 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
In relation to the bugs
my game just glitched, http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=7900 i'm italy, and ordered piedmont to support hold at Marseilles, its in the order history, but it didn't appear on the map, and wasn't counted, and its probably gonna cost me the game...
8 replies
Open
bonbon (100 D)
16 Jan 09 UTC
Join Red October
Join Red October. 24 hour phases. bet 15
1 reply
Open
El_Perro_Artero (707 D)
08 Jan 09 UTC
Oakland Riots
Well, I think we've all seen the videos. I'm sure Sicarius will want to get in on this one.
65 replies
Open
Puddle (413 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
A Matter of Faith
Let me start with, only post here if you are going to be intelligent courtious (I fail at spelling) and will actually add to the overall discussion.

How many of you would consider yourself true believers in God? The God of Abraham (so Muslims, Christians, and Jews feel free to respond). My Cause for asking is that I've begun to question my total denial of all things possibly divine.
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diplomat1824 (0 DX)
14 Jan 09 UTC
Christian. (Lutheran, to be exact)
diplomat1824 (0 DX)
14 Jan 09 UTC
airborne +5. Jihad is strictly a Muslim concept. I personally consider "holy war" to be an oxymoron.
Puddle (413 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
@Diplomat1824 Yes, but a crusade is essentially the same thing as a jihad
amonkeyperson (100 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
look up the definition (and somee videos on youtube) and you'll find out how people think about islam.
These things are very close to the truth. BUt i have to tell you all something.
EVERYONE in my family is like that.
But the thing is, we're all talk.
We could never do shit.
Chrispminis (916 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
Religion is bunk.

There has so far been no convincing evidence for the existence of God or Gods. Even if it may be true that you can conceive of a God that of who's existence we cannot disprove, I can think of thousands of entities that are similarly undisprovable but none of you would accept it as truth. It's all very well that to believe that there was a divine creator at the moment of the Big Bang and whatnot. I would not be able to dispute that with you because it's a purely metaphysical question. I just don't bother even assuming what may or may not have set off the Big Bang, otherwise I have no real problem with pure deism.

I just have a problem with religion, which is when people take their faith and use it to make value judgements. I may not be able to say for sure a God does not exist but the evidence is pretty clear that if he created the universe, he does not meddle any longer. At what point can someone say they know the mind of God when nobody else can, and then use that divine authority to command others and create value judgements by saying that certain sexual practices are immoral, to impose certain dietary restrictions, and by declaring certain people to be punishable by believers?

To answer Puddle and to summarize... It may very well be that there is divine powers and that our magnificent universe was conceived by a higher power, but that is unknowable at this point. To pretend to know the answer is folly. I presume you don't ascribe to various other supernatural phenomena such as the existence of aliens, unicorns, or the flying Spaghetti monster, and not to the vast majority of religious beliefs throughout history. Is there any reason why you can be more sure of the existence of one of these than the other? The real problem is when your faith directs you to make value judgements based on the uncertain premise of a divine being's existence, let alone it's judgement. "The invisible unicorn told me it was OK to have an abortion." Such value judgements should be determined on rational precepts and not upon the declared judgement of an unknowable supernatural being.
Jacob (2466 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
I sincerely believe in the God who created the universe and upholds it. This is the God of Abraham.

I was raised in a Christian home, but certainly had my doubts about my faith for quite a while. At this point in my life though I am 100% about my faith. I know that comes off sounding arrogant/close-minded, but it would be dishonest of me to say otherwise.

I gave up my job at a major bank because I felt that God was calling me into ministry and now I work for a Baptist church as a Youth Pastor and I am now attending seminary.

I do not consider myself to be "Baptist", I consider myself to be Christian, or, a follower of Christ if you prefer to say it that way.

My faith impacts my everyday life and as I learn and grow more I do my best to live according to the Bible instead of just calling myself a Christian and acting in a completely different way.

To be sure, I fail often. But, I would consider myself to be a "true believer of God" by which I think Puddle meant a sincere believer. That's what I mean when I say that I am a true believer anyway.

One small comment though about the original post. Muslims, Catholics, and Christians all view God in a very different way, so I'm not sure you can say that they all follow the same God - they don't.

So, Puddle, did you have a specific question you wanted to ask or something?
airborne (154 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
deep
My grain of salt...
You are an intelligent person Puddle. I agree with absolutely everything you have said.
Jacob (2466 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
And, as a side comment, the people who participated in the Crusades had "Christian" beliefs that were virtually unrecognizable as any kind of orthodox Christianity. Of course, that doesn't let Christians off the hook - there have been plenty of Christians with orthodox views that have done terrible things.
Chrispminis (916 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
I think he would like to you convince him that he should believe in your God? I think that's the purpose anyway.
Jacob (2466 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
I have a feeling this is going to be a long thread....lol =)
Puddle (413 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
@Chrispminis, Firstly I believe that up until about 1.5 to 2 years ago I was of essentially the same mindset as you. Secondly, somethings, such as aliens, are not mythical so much as currently unproven. By this I mean that ask any reasonably informed astrologer and the answer you will get is that mathematically and by the odds, there must have been, is or will be other worlds such as ours, with life.

Now to the meat of the issue, while it is entirely impossible to share a divine expirience, if someone, anyone of the numerous people who have claimed to have such, had an actual authentic divine,... intervention if you will, then their expirience is rather valid, and would give them some greater insight into a subject. Lastly not all, in fact most descisions should not be solely based on reason, for down that path lies, pardon the expression, godlessness, and the cold cruelty of the exactitude of reason. Morals by need must enter the equation somewhere, and if those morals come down from the church, are they wrong because they come from a man who claimed to know god?
Jacob (2466 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
Yes, well, convincing people that Christianity is true is not what the Bible tells Christians to do.

According to the Bible, the task of Christians is to share the good news (huge understatement there - more like amazingly awesome news!) about Jesus Christ with people. The Holy Spirit is the one who does the convincing =)

Puddle (413 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
@jacob, I dont have a specific question I would just like to discuss the subject. Also there are many paths to God, So Islam, Judaism and Christianity should by definition all be worshipping the same God, merely in differnt ways

@TheBrentingtonExpirience, Thank you
Jacob (2466 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
Puddle, I suppose that depends heavily on your presuppositions. You are presupposing that there are many paths to God.

I don't believe that and neither did Jesus. He said that He was the way, the truth, and the life, and that no one comes to the Father except through Him! That's a pretty exclusive statement...

So, when the beliefs of those major religions are mutually exclusive, how can they be worshipping the same God?
zuzak (100 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
I'm pretty similar to Sioraf in my beliefs, I think. It is irrational to believe something with certainty when there isn't enough evidence to justify that belief. There's a chance Christianity is right, there's a chance Islam is correct, there's a chance Atheism is correct, and so on. The one thing that I do believe in is free will, because I couldn't stand the thought that I don't control my actions. Also, at risk of sidetracking this discussion, because a good God wouldn't create people just to torture them.

@amonkeyperson, how many Muslims have you met? Yeah, obviously, there are crazy extremists, but there are plenty of crazy extremist Christians too. Although I'm being a little hypocritical here, since I don't know any Muslims, but still, not all Muslims are extremists.

@Diplomat1824 As Puddle said, a crusade is the same thing as a jihad. Also, don't forget that in the Old Testament, the "good guys" not only started tons of wars, but also committed genocide, executing everyone in cities, in the name of God. So, Jihad is not strictly Muslim at all.
Puddle (413 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
@Jacob, well that is easily explained, with early christianity, the only way top speak to God was through Christ, and the only way to Speak to christ was through a church ordained official, thereby requiring all to convert to their religion in order to worship god, thereby spreading the word of their chosen Prophet (Or as they believe the son of god) to as many people as possible. A Noble, if mislead, intention. If each religion said that theirs was the ONLY way to reach god, was their way, but it was all simply the same god, either they are all wrong about the method, or they are worshipping seperate gods, in which case they are all still wrong, in the other religions eyes
Jacob (2466 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
@zuzak, I think that if you think there is a chance that Christianity is correct then you owe it to yourself to investigate those claims. Because if it IS true, then everything is at stake. The Bible makes such serious claims about life and death that ignoring them without investigating them seems rather foolish if you think that it could possibly be true.
diplomat1824 (0 DX)
14 Jan 09 UTC
@ Puddle. I do not think the the Crusades were a good thing, nor do I approve of them. Lutherans did not participate in the Crusades. It's the Catholics who did the Crusades. Yes, Christians are essentially the same today. But different denominations have different histories. The Catholics were actually after Martin Luther, who founded the denomination Lutheranism (don't quote me on that spelling, I'm pretty sure it's not proper grammer)
Chrispminis (916 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
"
@Chrispminis, Firstly I believe that up until about 1.5 to 2 years ago I was of essentially the same mindset as you. Secondly, somethings, such as aliens, are not mythical so much as currently unproven. By this I mean that ask any reasonably informed astrologer and the answer you will get is that mathematically and by the odds, there must have been, is or will be other worlds such as ours, with life. "

Oh, I absolutely believe that intelligent life is somewhere out there. My bad, I meant to specify the Roswell aliens.

"
Now to the meat of the issue, while it is entirely impossible to share a divine expirience, if someone, anyone of the numerous people who have claimed to have such, had an actual authentic divine,... intervention if you will, then their expirience is rather valid, and would give them some greater insight into a subject. Lastly not all, in fact most descisions should not be solely based on reason, for down that path lies, pardon the expression, godlessness, and the cold cruelty of the exactitude of reason. Morals by need must enter the equation somewhere, and if those morals come down from the church, are they wrong because they come from a man who claimed to know god?"

Yeah, but it's impossible to distinguish a person with real personal divine experience from a con artist. I would rather not base my decisions on such uncertainty. I must profess, if I lived during Biblical times and saw all the miracles that were supposedly performed I would absolutely be a Christian. To see such is not faith, it's only reason. I demand the same evidence that those of Biblical times were given.

As to the question of morality and the coldness of reason I'll try to answer that... first let me state that I don't believe that religion gives us our morals, but rather it justifies them. The Bible and other religious texts are full of incidences and commands that we find morally horrendous. At one point many of these may have been considered very much the moral thing. The fact is that the passages of the Bible that we quote are discriminated by our own shifting moral zeitgeist. We don't get our morality from the Bible, we just pick passages from it and use that to justify our moral beliefs.

I will tell you that while I do not believe in absolute morality, I do consider myself to be a very moral/ethical person and I do not think we need God to be this way. Morality is very much a pragmatic adaptation given to us by evolution. As social animals we are forced to interact with many other individuals with which we may be in competition for resources or have differing interests. However, there is a distinct advantage to co-operating with other humans rather than murdering and stealing and whatnot. We can undertake greater projects, we can defend and attack in greater numbers and share that mutual protection, etc.

Humans that are completely immoral find their reproductive success highly stunted in a world where humanity is by and large very moral. Morality isn't determined by divine word. If you kill someone it isn't up to God to say that you have done wrong. It's up to the rest of us to punish you for your horrendous deed with the idea that it will deter future murders (possibly our own). Morality feels intuitive because a sense of right and wrong is part of our genetic makeup, enough so that psychiatric associations (though I take issue with them) have decreed that absence of this sense is pathological. Can you call it a fantastic coincidence that our morality by and large is that which allows us to continue to peacefully coexist and reap the mutual reward of co-operation?
zuzak (100 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
@Jacob The same is true about any belief. If Atheism is true, and I devoted my life to God, then I've wasted my life. If Christianity is true, and I've been immoral and Atheistic, I could go to hell. I know plenty about Christianity, and I've never seen proof of God's existence. I like to live rationally, so that, ideally, if I die, and find out that some higher being exists, I can say, "That seemed like the best idea at the time," for anything. Not that I am perfectly rational, but that is my ideal.
Chrispminis (916 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
More importantly, if you apply that logic all around then you owe it to yourself to investigate Islam, Judaism, Jainism, Norse Mythology, and this one that I just made up where you get an eternity of good breakfasts as long as you don't eat any breakfast here in the mortal realm.
zuzak (100 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
@Chrispminis Well, its too late for me now for that last one, so I'll just have to risk it.
Other than that, yeah, investigating other religions is a good thing to do. Just like there is no proof of Christianity, there is no proof against Christianity. That said, there is an extremely low but non-zero chance that certain beliefs are correct, including the one you just made up.
Chrispminis (916 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
zuzak there's still hope! Elvis died so that you could have the eternity of great breakfasts after death AND eat breakfast in the mortal realm as long as you acknowledge that Elvis died for your breakfasting sins.
Just as an FYI, the dead don' necessarily know whether god exists or not. If he doesn't, the dead probably don't know it. And FWIW, Judaism does not believe in the afterlife so the dead wouldnt know if god existed. (ashes to ashes, dust to dust).
Invictus (240 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
I don't see the point of invoking logic, as Spock would say, to religion. Religion requires faith, and faith is illogical. No one will ever convince me that God isn't real, and no one can ever prove to a truly committed atheist that God is real.

Some one once told me that religion is like car insurance. You might never need it, but you still have to have it.
Jacob (2466 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
My logic was simply that if he felt there might be truth in it then he should investigate. At this point, i am convinced that the Bible is the source for truth. I don't feel compelled at all to seek for it elsewhere.

And Chispminis, there are frequently reports today of miracles such as what is recorded in the Bible. My guess is that if you started to investigate them you would find tons of claims, but there would probably be many fake claims and then you'd start to say that there is no way to prove whether or not any of these so-called miracles are real, etc., etc...

It reminds me of a story that Jesus told in which a man died and went to Hell. While there he begged God to send someone from the dead to go and tell his brothers who were still alive so that they would escape. The climax of the story comes when God tells the man that if his brothers don't believe the scriptures then they will refuse to believe even if someone rises from the dead.

I find that story fascinating because, of course, Jesus later rose from the dead and people steadfastly refuse to believe it.

So, I wonder, if you had the evidence which you demand, would you really then believe? Because the evidence is there. I personally know someone who had a physical miracle take place while a group of people were praying for her. There are many other examples, but that is probably the strongest one that I've encountered. If you want to know the details then I suppose I can post them.

Seriously though, the only thing that will really ever convince someone is the gospel message. I'd be much more interested in posting that =)
EdiBirsan (1469 D(B))
14 Jan 09 UTC
I think there is a little confusion here.
There is Faith and then there is Religion.
There is the belief in the Divine and then there is Dogma.
There is the perception of heresy when there is official Dogma in a religion.

Faith is a wonderful idea and may be a critical component of sentient beings, however religion uses or abuses for some Faith by the application of details.

As I say to the missionaries that knock on the door
My faith does not allow me to believe in religion.

Jacob (2466 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
Well, Jesus certainly didn't care much for religion. His harshest words were reserved for the religious leaders and his harshest actions occurred in the temple when he drove out the people selling animals.

But if there is truth then there is also falsehood and so there certainly is such a thing as heresy and not just the perception of heresy.

However, I'm not sure why you'd be worried about heresy if you don't adhere to any religion except that constructed in your own mind.

Jacob (2466 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
But I do understand your distaste for religion. The church I'm in right now is very much bound to its tradition. When Christianity is like that it becomes much more like a 'religion' in the negative sense of legalism and dos and don'ts and much less like 'faith'.

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243 replies
koyo (112 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
Strategic analysis, please...
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=7718

Hey guys, what do you think about the last movements in the game? Do you find some logic in the Italian movements? Isn't it weird that Austria has become twice in civil disorder? What do you think about that?
10 replies
Open
PirateJack (400 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
Gunboat MkI Game
http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=8072
Anyone up for a game of gunboat? 50D PPSC.
Password is 'password'. Didn't want anyone stumbling into it without knowing what it was.
12 replies
Open
StevenC. (1047 D(B))
15 Jan 09 UTC
European Death War is up and running!
European Death War is up and looking for experienced players. Oh, and Operation Sea Lion would've worked if the Luftwaffe had continued to pummel British cities instead of postponing the operation.
0 replies
Open
saulberardo (2111 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
Error ocurred
hey people, take a look at this game:
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=7328
I moved from Belgium to Burgundy with support from Munich but my armies didn't move. Why it happened?
6 replies
Open
Denzel73 (100 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
Zeitgeist
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
3 replies
Open
paggas (184 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
About the layout of the webpage
Hi, I have this problem. The text box for chatting in the Board view is too long horizontally, and its right edge is thus hidden behind the white border. Could you please make it show up in front of the white border instead? Or maybe shrink it horizontally. I am using Firefox 3.0.4 on Linux.
4 replies
Open
oldbenjamin (1412 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
3v3 game
Hello. 3 hour phase? Please let's make it 12 or 16 or just a standard 24.
2 replies
Open
tullman (579 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
Removed units question - time sensitive
A player had to remove a unit but it seems ambiguous as to which one. The explosion is on top of an army in STP but the army has an arrow going to MOS (an order that succeeded), There is also a fleet in STP that was moved from the Gulf of Bothnia. Which unit is removed, STP or MOS?
4 replies
Open
paulg (358 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
Online indicator and last logged in
My observations suggest that "online" refers to anywhere on the site whereas "last logged in" refers to a specific game and is probably sufficient to avoid CDind. Is that correct?
3 replies
Open
mwalton (2561 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
Real Life Friends Playing In Same Game...What is the Etiquette Here?
Do you need to let the other players in the game know that you know each other in the real world? While I could see how it would increase the chances of a strong ally in a game...letting others know about it would also create an instant assumption that might not be real. What is generally consdered the etiquette in this matter?
11 replies
Open
Bananas (130 D)
13 Jan 09 UTC
Report France and Italy
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=7945

Just look at the moves from italy and france, and the registration of italy new gamer. Don't looks suspicius?
16 replies
Open
paggas (184 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
Rules question
What happens if player A has a fleet in St. Petersburg south coast, and player B moves his fleet from Barents Sea to St. Petersburg? How does support hold/support move work out?
2 replies
Open
PirateJack (400 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
Forced unpause needed
http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=7429

In this game two nations have not logged on since the 4th and 6th of January, respectively, and the game has been stuck on pause for many days now. Could we ask a moderator to unpause it for us, if at all possible?
5 replies
Open
General_Ireland (366 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
Could a Moderator Help Please?
GFDT Round 1, Game 4 has been paused since before the Christmas holidays. Everyone but two players has come back to unpause, but we STILL have not heard from the other two, despite repeated attempts to contact them regarding the game. See below for the rest of the details...
7 replies
Open
fearestgoblin (100 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
Total Death
I just started thi game anyone who wants to play the start up to play is 10 coins, come on in and play Total Death!
2 replies
Open
paggas (184 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
About the timing system
This is kindof an ehnancement proposal for phpDiplomacy.
Somewhat long, read the reply!
7 replies
Open
Richard III (373 D)
13 Jan 09 UTC
Can order errors be checked?
I don't want to pause the game in progress - it is what it is, and I'll live with the results of play, please don't delay it. But in my only ongoing game, Ponzi Scheme," my last spring season move included some errors that I just can't believe were mine...
36 replies
Open
philcore (317 D(S))
13 Jan 09 UTC
Ranking List
I've written a little app that goes through all of the user profiles and sorts them by position - kinda like the HoF, except with everyone having at least 101 points. There are 11,000+ members, but only 1754 of them are 100+ making them non-political puppets. It is from this subset of all of the members on the site that the 90%, 50%, etc. ratings are compiled from. Here's the complete list - I can run it once a week or so and post it, if there's interest.
23 replies
Open
EdiBirsan (1469 D(B))
15 Jan 09 UTC
Reaching the Rest of the Players?
We have maybe 5per cent of the players on the forum. I want to reach all the players to encourage them to come to the World DipCon Championships at Origins in Columbus, Ohio www.originsgamefair.com It would be a great place for the php community to meet up June 26-28. Can you all help by posting on you global chat?
4 replies
Open
xcurlyxfries (0 DX)
15 Jan 09 UTC
Curses!
I just lost a game to the dingly berries
3 replies
Open
SpeakerToAliens (147 D(S))
14 Jan 09 UTC
Be thankfull you're not playing the fb version of this...
Adverts! They've polluted the game pages and forum with fb Adverts! Not just down the RHS, where you can make your browser thinner to get rid of them, but at the top of every page! And they flash and flicker and are damned annoying.
9 replies
Open
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