Revolutions are violent but sometimes necessary acts.

Violence solves things more often than people might think, but more often, it causes more problems, and is only to be used in extreme situations. One murder does not merit a riot.

"El_Perro_Altero +4."
damnit, I've been given diplomat1824's endorsement :-(

@Sic "dont give me that 'violence doesnt solve anything' bullshit"
The problem is, I wouldn't say that these people were trying to 'solve anything.' I don't think that some of them even knew why they were rioting. It looked more like an angry bunch doing that stuff just for kicks

Savlian, if the murderer goes free with the backing of the state, it does. If he walks without a trial, that town will be torn to pieces from within, and rightfully so. The evidence is there, they excuse of confusion lame. He should already be rotting in a jail cell awaiting a trial.

One murder does not justify more.

I am not a pacifist. But I fail to see the point in killing people, because one already died. Its not logical, and if the murderer walks. It is not the end of the world. The city will not be torn apart, because the second it looks like it will, the national guard is deplioyed in the city. And as a general rule, you DO NOT piss off someone with a handheld automatic.

one murder does not justify more, I would agree with that, but no one wa smurdered at the riots.

look the state killed a man in cold blood and you expect people to just accept it? the riot was a completely justified response.
we can all talk shit about it because it failed, but not if it would have succeeded.
in greece when alex was shot by the police look what happened! greece is going to be a new country now.
do you think anyone in greece is saying "oh those kids who rioted when the cops shot that guy, they're just doing it for fun, it wont help anything, they probably dont even know what they're doing it for"

I have a bad (good?) habit of tuning pacifists out. they might make some good points but their overall view is fucked.
if hitler had a really great idea for public transportation woul dit really have mattered?

It seems to me that protesters who make violent situations give peaceful protesters a bad name. The violent ones are basically saying, "Cops, I adore your methods and I wish I were as powerful as you but because I'm not, you are my enemy." They egg on the cops and drive us further to what we all fear: a police state. How does a violent protest affect the fact that a young man was murdered? Not at all.

And besides, the police weren't even the victims of the protests... local shopowners were. They suffered the most. I guess if you're anti-capitalist, then that's ok---but then why aren't they busting up places of business on a daily basis? They need an excuse. And the murder of one young man is a pretty lame excuse for such childish behaviour.

peaceful protestors have a pretty bad name anyway.
kindof a joke honestly.

IU'm not saying peaceful protest does not have its place, but I really despise pacifists. hypocrites.

you really think anyone is driving on the progression of te police state? I cab assure you it would proceed quite smoothly even if there were no crimes.

oh speaking of pacifists, I would like to remind everyone that if they want me to send them a free copy of "how non-violence prtoects the state" (a book by gelderloos"
then give my your email and I'll be glad to send it

oh also its ridiculous to think that every violent resister is just really jealous of the police.
I'm sure all those in the warsaw ghetto uprising wanted to be nazis to thier last breath

What makes you say pacifists are hypocrites?

through inaction they perpetuate the violence they proclaim to hate

a pacifist wouldnt stop someone raping their loved one.
a loved one could be a person or animal or some environmental feature.

take for instance those hippies crying over cut trees that someone on here thought would be hilariuous to compare me too. well if they're so broken up about the trees being cut down, why just sit there and cry? they should have stood the fuck up and went to go blow up some bulldozers or something.

ok most of that is pointless just pay attention to my first sentence

I can't speak for other pacifists but to me pacifism is a very personal thing. It is true that I disapprove of any kind of violence but I disapprove of my own violence far more than violence enacted by others. I bear a far more amount of responsibility for my own violence than for others' violence. The violence I hate is the violence I commit. By not committing such violence, I am not perpetuating that which I hate. Is that hypocritical?

could you have said violence any more :p

if you would not commit an act of violence to stop even greater violence then yes.
if you realize that some violence is necessary to stop even worse things from occuring or continuing, then you are not a hypocrite at all.
you just need to realize that sometimes in some situations, violence is nessessasry. sp

I have a hard time evaluating violence. How do you know when once violence is greater than another?

Chill out, Sicarius. I'm just joking around.

(you're only mad because you know I'm right)

I think its ridiculously easy to determine what violence is worse.

whats worse, a man beating and raping his family for years, or one of them finally killing him

whats worse a country of people getting bombed and slaughtered daily, or them picking up whatever they can find and fighting back?

whats worse, the state killing millions upon millions of people with impunity, or a few smashed windows and thrown rocks?

diplomat get off the thread unless you have something useful to contribute. if your reply is just a retort then dont bother posting it at all

I think there's an element of justification that plays in there too Sicarius. I don't even think your act of violence has to be preventing a greater act of violence to be justified.

For instance on the face of it, is rape more or less violent than a bullet through the head? I think most of us would agree that as ugly as it is, we'd rather a loved one get raped than have a bullet in the head. So bullet in the head is a greater act of violence than rape.

But a bullet in the head is the level of violence that I would escalate to in order to prevent the rape of a loved one, if I were so armed at the time. If not, then a knife to the throat, a rock to the skull a boot to the nose - whatever it takes.

I would not make a good pacifist.

pacifists dont make good pacifists.

good pacifists dont exist. they are enablers, helping the things they proclaim to hate

OK, Sicarius. That is actually one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. If you have the internet required to play this game, you are obviously not living in a country where millions get slaughtered by the state with impunity daily. At that point, yes, a revolt would be necessary. But do you see your government killing millions and millions of people with impunity?

I didn't think so.

The deaths of millions would justify a violent riot. It has been pointed out that while a riot does not spell death for many people, it certainly risks it. The death of one man, does not mean that people should live in fear of the people from the next block breaking into their shop, breaking stuff and taking what they want. You may say that with a government that would murder someone like that, people should live in fear. It was one man. If this was a very regular ocurrence, it could be alarming. However, the chances of you getting gunned down in the street by am rogue cop, are very very slim.

So, yes, with the situation you described, violence would be necessary. However, that is not our situation. One man died needlesly. Are we really going to risk the lives of more? Its not going to bring him back. Nor is it going to stop it from happening again. Because a rogue cop is just that. A rogue cop. And the state can't do anything about. These riots were totally unnecessary.

I live in America pal.

you really dont think America kills with impunity?

ask the people in Iraq and afganistan and gaza and countless other places if they agree

so yes I see "my" government killing millions of people with impunity. not daily, but I never said that.

ask someone in mogadishu if they think its ridiculous that the united states kills people and gets away with it. ask people in vietnam. ask anyone anywhere really.

nothing to say?

What do you believe, Sicarius? Do you think that a state of anarchy would be a good thing? If you voted for Obama, you would be a bigger hypocrite than John Kerry.