yes thats kindof what i have a problem with.

like you said if you were born in a muslim country you would be muslim
now if you were a christian (or a more devout one I guess) dont you think that same argument could be used against you

I am not devout - I live in Bulgaria - a former communist country where religions was illegal :)

I am not arrogant enough to claim that everything in this world can be exlained by human math/logic/reason/science - and believe there's something more to it. And, as my environment is Christian this is where I take ideas from.

I do not claim that Christianity is better than any other set of beliefs. Actually, I think most religions are the same - a lot of good ideas and some nonsense combined :). The problem is not with the religions themselves but with the people that try to defend/attack them :)

Why do you need an argument against me (or any other Christian) - did I do something bad to you :), am I trying to make you believe in somehting against your will :)

I think you need to define the question before asking for answers - do you have a problem with Religions as a whole, or Christianity is particular :)
If it is the second noone can help you :)

Some Christian are trying t make you believe something against your will. As are some Muslims, Sikhs and some people from every religion on the Planet.
I have no problem with what people believe, it a free world you can think what you want. I do have a problem with people believeing that they are better than someone else due to their religion, and I think this has been the experiance of several others who have posted in this thread.

Sicarius,
The important point to remember is that there are many paths to God. Where you are from will sometimes dictate whether you call Him God, Allah, Bhudda, or one of the myriad of names He goes by. The path you choose is not as important as making the decision to walk it. The road is often hard and long, but how you conduct yourself along your journey is what is important.

k
your taking alot of what I say and turnign it ass backwards
I didnt say you were devout, I said you wernt
I never said everything in this world can be explained by science, I strongly disagree with that sentiment
I never said my beleifs were better than anyone elses

my aim isnt to get an argument against christians, were you not paying attention at all?
I want christians themselves to tell me why they beleive what they do
our conversation is furthering neither an intelligent disscussion or the original purpose of the thread, so if it's ok with you I would prefer that you not post anymore
enjoyed talking wth you, when we were talkign about something

to others, again the goal of this threa dis not to say whose beliefs ar ebtter or what religion is this or that

all I want is for christioans to explain to me the reasons behind their faith. not so I can critisize their beliefs, just so I can know

ok, np :)

Ivo makes some very good arguements.

I personally am disgusted by orginized religion as a whole. I'm not sure what I am to be honest. I grew up Protestant, but have spent some time trazeling the world, and since i love to learn I have seen many religions. I have taken a little from each and this is what I believe:

There is a higher power, there is life after death, all religions have been corrupted by man, and none of them are uneffected by men with personal agendas. I believe a man named Jesus was hung on across (Allthough a coma could explain his rising, and second death afterwards). Was he the son of god, yes, as are we all. I don't believe that god sends you to hell because you haven't stuck your head in a bucket of water though.

There are many threads of commonality through most of the worlds major religions, I guess that is what I believe in.

Unitarian Universalist.

and i don't see what this has to do with Diplomacy.

Hey, Sicarius, if you really want to know the reasons behind the Christian faith, I suggest you ask a different group of people...

Sicarius, why are you asking only about Christianity? You are not asking why people are religious, but only why are they Christian?

Do you imply there is a difference between Christians and other people?

I know why people are religious in general.
(or I think I do)
but each religion is different
and christianity being very dominant in the country I live in and the west in general, I think it deserves special attention.

to me I just dont see how anyone could possibly beleie it. its full of holes and contradictions and circular logic.
I mean I've read the bible, but I'm sure a christian knows more about christianity than me

I do know know, therefore I ask

Sicarius: you're sounding kinda Republican. stop it. you're scaring me.

explain why I'm sounding republican and I'll explain how t's actually something very different

I am a Christian because I have experienced miracles, answers to prayer, joy in the midst of dispair, liberation from harmful habits, and as I continue to draw closer to the Triune God the richer my life and relationships become.

I guess my real question, or at least the main one, is why you bleive in the bible

I don't "believe in the Bible."
I believe in the Triune God that the Bible points us to.

care to clarify?

Can you go deeper into that Stagger? In particular the fine line which truly defines your beliefs, I'm honestly very curious about what you have to say and I'd love some examples if you'd be willing to describe some of those events vaguely explained.

I'm not sure what you mean by "fine line." You'll have to go deeper into that yourself, Archonix.
I'm glad to expand up my earlier statement, but explanations would be much easier if I didn't have to type everything. :(

I'd like to edit what I said above about the Bible.
> I believe in the Trinue God that the Bible invites to know and experience for ourselves.

What is it that truly makes you believe that there is anything beyond what you can see/feel/touch or see undoubtable evidence for? What is it that makes you believe that not only is there a higher power but he is a single power and that he has had a son that was sent to earth and died for our sins?

Also, you mentioned miracles, prayers answered, joy in the midst of despair and so on, can you describe any of this better? I'd like to know why it justifies your beliefs.

Here's one (among many) of my experiences,
When I was 16, I started wearing glasses. (I discovered I needed them when I went for my drivers license.)

When I was 22, I was in church one Sunday waiting for the worship service to begin and suddenly I could see perfectly without my glasses. After about 5 minutes, my vision returned to "normal."

I thought a miracle was "a divinely natural phenomenon experienced humanly as the fulfillment of spiritual law"

Can you talk more about the questions in my first paragraph?

thats what I'm curious about as well

Another first-hand experience,
When I went to university (and broke), one Saturday I went into a Christian bookstore and saw a $40 book that I really wanted ("Calvin's Institutes"). I decided I couldn't afford it, but on my way out of the store, I saw a sign that the next weekend the store was having their 22nd Anniversary and EVERYTHING was going to be 22% off. I decided to come back the next Saturday and buy the book for about $30.

When I got back to residence, I had a strong sense that I shouldn't buy the book. I didn't know why - other than the fact I was broke - so I decided I should pray about it and see God would let me know one way or the other if I should buy the book.

I prayed about it before bed Monday night, Tuesday night, Wednesday night, and by the time I finished praying Wednesday night, I "knew" in my heart that I shouldn't buy the book. And I decided I wouldn't.

The next morning, I got up and decided I would buy it. Why not!

So Saturday came I went back and bought the book and saved about $10 and felt good about it. . . until Christmas morning when I opened the gift from my sister. Can you guess what it was? The book! She'd gone to a lot of trouble to get it for me and paid full price and I had to admit to her that I had bought it a few months earlier.

My prayer had been answered, but I didn't listen!

I'm sorry if I offend you, but that seems like a very poor excuse to believe a giant invisible omnipresent omnipotent omniscience man lives in the sky and tells you which books to buy