It's worthy of being the concept for a Dilbert cartoon

Dilbert's mate, Fred the engineer who's always playing games accidentally applies for a position as boss of the pointy headed boss or similar

Re life on other planets, a simple question, if we find evidence of life it could be :
Evidence of life that did exist, or evidence of life that does exist now,

The type of life we find is :
Simple forms of life, eg bacteria or similar,
More advanced forms of life eg plants, animals, but not intelligent with language and culture,
Intelligent life as part of a highly evolved ecosystem.
I doubt we'll find super intelligent life unless they want to be found.

Obviously it's most probable we'll find really simple life forms first simply from a logistical constraint, that's what our machines will come across first, and that's the type of search we primarily engage in and design our exploration machines to do

The discovery of life on Mars, present or past, which clearly arose independently of the life forms of Earth, would be a disastrous finding.

The reason why is that it would indicate that the appearance of simple life forms is exceedingly common in the Universe, indicating that the reason we have not seen evidence of intelligent life in the Universe is not that life itself is rare, but that intelligent life very very rarely escapes its own solar system.

See "the Great Filter." For those familiar with the terminology, finding life on Mars would mean the Great Filter is ahead of us, not behind us. Not conclusively of course, but it would be the most important support of that possibility by far to that date.

If we find evidence of extra terrestrial life, then those (in my opinion ) duplicitous dog collar'd deceivers of themselves and others will claim it's all their false tin God's doing,and plan and because they "work both sides of the street" then as long as we have not found evidence of extra terrestrial life they'll claim that's also their false God's doing and plan.
You may lead a cleric to knowledge, but you'll never persuade him to think .

The point (as posed to christians etc) by the original poster doesn't actually make a lot of sense when you think about it.

How does finding life anywhere else prove or disprove a thing? If God can create life here he can create life elsewhere. It doesn't even prove evolution and such if you were talking to a creationist - again if God can create life here, he can create life elsewhere.

The point of contention would be if intelligent life were found elsewhere - not life. There is plenty of life on earth but none of it approaches humanity (made in God's image). It may be the same elsewhere in the universe.

Your point assumes life came from one point and grew into humans, and thus life could have grown elsewhere. If life was put here by God though then it is just as plausible life was put elsewhere (though not likely intelligent life - since the universe is entirely flawed through human activity/God would need to redeem them too).

@Thucdides 'but that intelligent life very very rarely escapes its own solar system.'

True, but we leave traces behind that go beyond our solar system. it's just a matter of looking for radiation that isn't natural and viola you've found intelligent life. Only in practical sense it's not so easy cause of how big our universe is.

^on the assumption that that intelligent life is more or less developed as we are as in they have discovered radiowaves

It's a shame BaloOldGuy isn't here to participate in this thread...

From a theological perspective, if God created an infinite (give or take) universe in which the only bit that mattered was this one, I would have to question a lot of my understanding of God.

The Earth itself, even from a non-believer's point of view, seems almost designed as a playground for humanity. It has hot bits and cold bits, flat areas, hills and mountains, jungles and forests and grassland, oceans and islands and continents. Everywhere is accessible to some degree, everywhere is connected to everywhere else. Every square inch of the canvas has been used by the Artist, and every square inch designed to captivate the humans who gaze upon it.

Contrast that to a lifeless galaxy. The Artist buys a huge skyscraper for his art, and in the janitor's toilet on floor 115 draws an awesome picture on matchbox, then leaves the building.

@octavious, as a non-believer, that's nature and evolution you've just described. There's a reason why there are mountains/islands/... where they are. It follows a set of laws, the laws of physics. Which brings us to the discussion, did a 'god' create those laws, or are they because they just are. At the moment, I believe the latter, cause there is no indication of beings higher than us (ie in more dimensions).

Gods are entirely superfluous and not required for the construction of a moral or ethical code, nor for the aquisition of knowledge.
They're simply the convenient tool used by an elite group, the priests to acquire power and wealth.
Why then assume a God, or God's are required to create our universe without any demonstrable evidence for the existence of a God or God's, or their responsibility for creation ?

@ gonnor

It really doesn't bring us to that discussion at all. It's either God's doing or it isn't, and whether you swing one way or the other is a matter of faith. There is nothing to discuss.

I feel you have missed the point I was trying to make. For most of humanity's existence the universe has been the Earth and a disc of stars above it. Everything on Earth could be plausibly seen as put there for us to explore/make use of/protect etc etc. It is a narrative of existence that is familiar and comfortable, whether there is any truth to it or not.

Now our understanding of the universe has fundamentally expanded to include other solar systems and galaxies, but we do not yet understand the nature of this expanded universe. If the universe is full of planets that support life (be it intelligent or not), and it is possible to travel between them, then the narrative is essentially unchanged. Humanity's universe is bigger but essentially the same. Full of wonders to explore/make use of/protect.

If, however, this new universe is inaccessible or dead, then the narrative changes completely. The universe is huge and glorious, but it has not been put there for us, and we have no significant part to play.

I beg the differ. What if there are beings in higher dimensions than we can observe (+3 ) and they had a hand in our big bang? I've put '' around god on purpose, to use it in a greater sense.

But you're right, I misread your post and understand your point. I also believe people made up stories to put meaning to life and explain our surroundings. (i hope i read your post correctly this time haha)

If the universe is dead except our planet, this would really blow my mind and i can't really wrap my head around it what it would mean to me.

Here is a Scary thought.. I fully believe and support the belief in the existence of life on other planets. I don't think this goes against any religion , the creator may have created many earths. BUT if there are others some or one of them would be the most developed and or intelligent.

THE SCARY thing is . What if its us ??????

Btw, it's not that I believe in those +3 beings, it's just that it crossed my mind once and I wanted to hear if someone else has thought about it. Just wanted this to be clear.

Dunno how threads live their life on webdip

The Mormon religion, generally viewed to be naive and out of touch believes absolutely in other worlds with humans just like us. Lest we not forget that the notion the world was round, and that the sun revolved around us were offenses you could be jailed for at one time.
Religions have adapted quite well to the notion of an infinite universe, some schools of thought even describing that the universe itself is proof of a God in its design.
I would argue that there is life on more celestial bodies in our immediate solar system than just Earth and mars as well. Titan and Europa very likely have bacteria and life living in the unfrozen depths of their oceans. Liquid Methane based life would be fascinating.
Also we shouldnt even dismiss that some bacteria could live on Venus as it mimics somewhat the high heat environments of Yellowstone Geysers.

"True, but we leave traces behind that go beyond our solar system. it's just a matter of looking for radiation that isn't natural and viola you've found intelligent life. Only in practical sense it's not so easy cause of how big our universe is."

I'm admittedly not super informed on this topic, but what makes us think that our little radio waves or whatever aren't way to small in magnitude to just dissipate in the cosmic noise over distances of thousands or millions of lightyears? Seems hard to believe that satellites beaming the latest episode of The Walking Dead would really emit much of any consequence into deep space. And so it would go for comparably advanced species in distant corners.

And anyway, consider this: what if whatever the Great Filter is... let's call it... I dunno - climate change and mass extinction collapse (just for grins...) - what if that Great Filter always or nearly always comes into effect almost right at the time the civilization develops use of EM radiation like radio? Certainly we have only been using it for about 100 years and have probably about another 100. That's a blip. Assuming very many species even get that far, this would mean that although the Great Filter being positioned where it is doesn't *preclude* sending radio out into space, it certainly makes it exceedingly and vanishingly rare.

Just a thought.

@Connor
I mentioned the idea of +4 dimensional life in response to Octavious's post about life forms that evolved to never die of old age
Remember we have a 4dimensional reality the 3physical dimensions of space plus time as the 4th dimension, although I have to admit I only have a simpleton's understanding of the space-time continuum
I think S Hawkins proposition that if time travel is possible it's only possible to travel forward in time relative to the time in the location you travelled from.
Sorry Hollywood.
I speculated that possibly the way a life form attains immortality is to leave a physical existence in 4 dimensional reality and become entities that exist in these other dimensions of the space-time continuum

@Brainbomb, I've got a copy of the Mormon "Bible" that I purchased from an opportunity shop for 20 cents, possibly overpriced, but the money goes to charity. I'm not sure how to describe it, imaginative, convoluted, long winded, just not credible, are some desciptive terms I would use. Thankfully the author(s) have not inflicted a sequel upon us.

@thucydides, I'm no expert either so I can be wrong aswel, but you'd be surprised by how little power you need to transmit into space. That satellite we shoot into space to find ET's, the one that exited our solar system some time ago has only 25W iirc. Remember, they don't have to decode it, they just need to detect radiation that isn't natural.
I do admit I forgot that it propagated at the speed of light, so good call on that. So it'll probably be some time before the nearest star can pick it up. Unless they use shortcuts in the space-time continuum. (interstellar!)

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to say with the Great filter

@mitchel, i don't think we have a 4 reality. Can you 'see' time? who is telling time is the 4th dimension? for all we know it's something else. yes, i know, you can see time as the 4th axis with this current state now at the origin. But time is relative, it's something we invented in our perspective.

Again, I'm no expert, i'm saying what I'm making of it. I would love to read a book about it though.

My comment was actually about life forms that never evolved the ability to die of old age, which is a subtle but important difference. Still, the discussion has moved on :)

I see your point Octavious, but don't think it works that way.
I imagine all the "embryonic" forms of life at the simplest level are short lived, and that as more complex life forms evolved, even at the very early stages they evolved to live longer, but still finite lives as individuals
So I think it works the other way, longevity of individuals within different species may increase as evolution progresses
However it's certainly a thought provoking idea that your company suggested
Maybe I'm just too conditioned to associate longevity with "more advanced, or more evolved species" and intelligence

Damn typo's I have no idea where the word company arose from in that 2nd to last sentence

How would a species that has not evolved the ability to die of old age deal with it's own population growth and the "Malthusian" problem of population increasing beyond it's "food" and other required resources supply.
I suppose that even though the individuals do not did of old age, there are plenty of other causes for death, disease, starvation, violence, etc

Actually, if there are enough other causes for death occurring at a high enough rate, then it's quite possible.
Damn good Octavious, it's not such an impossibility as I first thought.

Still how do we define "death from old age" ?
Commonly old individuals die from sicknesses that would not have killed them when they are younger

Breaking News: Mars Opportunity rover discovers cave with primitive Art inside. Proof humans once walked on Mars.

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/chauvet/gallery/5b.jpg

Um, Valis is already here, what more proof do we need? :))

The problem with the concept of methane based life is that methane is not very reactive, much less so than water. It is unlikely the reaction mechanisms of methane would be sufficient to produce a self replicating organism.

In the sense that burning methane is easy, but making anything out of methane is difficult.