Good call by Victorious, it seems. How's this, guys?

http://www.amazon.de/GL551JK-CN128H-Notebook-4700HQ-Display-schwarz/dp/B00OYT61N8/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1447081238&sr=1-1&keywords=gaming+laptop#productDetails

Note: it's a half German half English beta.
Asus, 16GB RAM, 4GB graphic card (Nvidia GeForce GTX 850M), 256GB SSD. Sounds good but I'm still no expert.
€1053,27 but it does say "used". My German is really bad but something about being in the original wrapping, but with tiny scratches or something? Does that mean it's actually unused? Not sure..
Could someone figure out what exactly it says about the condition on this page:

http://www.amazon.de/gp/offer-listing/B00OYT61N8/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=all&qid=1447081238&sr=1-1

It's German. Also, is there a guarantee that it hasn't been used? This is more of a general question as well.

Not sure if it's risky? I don't typically buy stuff online, especially not if it costs this kind of money..

I was going to link the other stuff I found, but basically the first 5 laptops in this link:

http://www.amazon.de/s/ref=sr_st_price-asc-rank?keywords=gaming+laptop&fst=as%3Aoff&rh=n%3A340843031%2Cn%3A427957031%2Ck%3Agaming+laptop%2Cp_n_feature_browse-bin%3A1478228031%7C1478229031%2Cp_76%3A419123031%7C419122031&qid=1447082124&sort=price-asc-rank

Some have a "new" option, but I can clearly get a nice discount for "used", just not sure whether that's risky.

I wouldn't buy a used laptop, but that's just me.

Also the 860M is not as good as the 960M. You need to start looking at benchmarks. I've explained how to do this, but if you still don't understand how I can show you again.

I think I could figure that out myself. The question is probably whether it's good enough though, which is something I still can't tell. I can figure out what's better although it might take a while.
It's a few 100s cheaper I believe (not at pc atm), hence I consider it.

The Asus we picked before seems to be more than €1600 now, which is more than I seem to recall..

I'm looking for the same quality for less, basically. Like I said, I think one of the first 5 laptops in that link will probably do, I'll try to narrow that down..

Yes the price appears to have gone up by 300

Refined my search to get rid of the ones I'm not getting anyway, still having trouble seeing which would be best though:

http://www.amazon.de/mn/search/ref=cs_switchlang?_encoding=UTF8&language=en_GB&qid=1447090810&rh=n%3A340843031%2Cn%3A427957031%2Cp_n_feature_browse-bin%3A1478228031%7C1478229031%2Cp_36%3A125000-99999999%2Cp_n_feature_keywords_five_browse-bin%3A2607025031&sort=price-asc-rank

Another possibility I found is this:
http://www.laptopshop.nl/product/660330/category-45702/msi-ge72-2qd-407nl-apache-pro.html#product_specifications

For heat dissipation I checked the following link, which makes me think it's good?

http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/msi_ge72_2qd_apache_review,6.html

An 860m if probably good enough although it world help if you reminded y us what games you played/want to play

GTA V, Battlefield (whatever the newest is called :P), Total War: ATTILA, PAYDAY 2, perhaps a new Need for Speed or something..

Those are the heavier games I can think of right now, I try to vary the types of games I play.

Just Cause 4 maybe. It might be nice if it can keep up with any future programming urges I may or may not have, but I doubt that's going to be a problem anyway.

You should have no problem with GTA or Total War. Games like Far Cry 4 will but rough.

Really? Didn't think Far Cry 4 was that rough. Looking at recommended specs now:

RECOMMENDED:
OS: Windows® 7 (SP1) / Windows® 8 / Windows® 8.1 / (64-bit only)
Processor: 2.5 GHz Intel® Core™ i5-2400S or 4.0 GHz AMD FX-8350 or better
Memory: 8 GB RAM
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 or AMD Radeon R9 290X or better (2 GB VRAM)
DirectX: Version 11
Network: Broadband Internet connection
Hard Drive: 30 GB available space
Sound Card: DirectX-compatible (5.1 surround sound recommended)
Additional Notes: Supported video cards at the time of release: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 or better, GeForce GTX 700 series; AMD Radeon HD5850 or better, Radeon R9 series. Note: Laptop versions of these cards may work but are NOT officially supported.

Also, which laptop are you talking about at the moment?

I'm just talking about the 860m card.

Ah right.

Also recommended specs is not a good way to tell how a game will run. Look at the benchmarks for the games I talked about. I have a link to the benchmarks somewhere above.

Ah right, only just found out I didn't scroll far enough down.

My current favourite which I posted before: http://www.laptopshop.nl/product/660330/category-45702/msi-ge72-2qd-407nl-apache-pro.html#product_specifications

Graphic card (960M) looks good with benchmarks, 16GB RAM, 128GB SSD, heat dissipation seems to be good according to a link I already posted as well..

The specs in that one seem very nice. I don't have experience with MSI, so I'd just encourage you to read a few reviews. Customer Service, Heat, General Build Quality is what you want to learn about

I guess a good question left is whether the price of €1400 is right, and whether a better deal is to be found at amazon.de...

Cross-posted. I'll try to figure out those things as well, abge. I often can't figure out whether I found a review for a model that is practically the same or different in a relevant way though..
I think it's all good, just not sure :P

How does one pay in E's?

@Ishmael: That depends on the specific payment method and possibly your bank. In some cases your bank handles it automatically and you just pay a fee for conversion rates and administrational stuff.. You should probably check with your bank.

So anyway, not sure if it's my incompetence, but I can't really find much reviews (none for the specific model, some for similar models), but everything looks okay I guess..

I think I'll wait for tomorrow or Friday before ordering it, giving some time to think it over and, perhaps more importantly, give you guys some time to change my mind if it's a bad idea :-)

So the model I'm looking at now is this one:
http://www.laptopshop.nl/product/660330/category-45702/msi-ge72-2qd-407nl-apache-pro.html#product_specifications

If you have the time and mood, please consider checking it out and telling me whether it's a good deal.

Buying now.

I can still return it, so let me know if you see bad things..

Just skimmed the thread, but I want to drop a warning in case someone else is looking for the same thing.

gt860m can actually be three cards, one of which is completely different. Also, gt960m comes in two variants.

The 960m comes in 2gb and 4gb variants, and that's the only difference. Get the 4gb if possible.

The 860m has two chip types, GK104 and GM107. The GM107 version is *exactly the same* as 960m. Well, not 100% true, but very close. So, a 4gb 860m with GM107 will be better than the 2gb 960m.

But, there is also the GK104 version of 860m. And it gets tricky to say which is better. GM107 is a newer architecture, and will handle some things, such as tesselation immensely better. It will also age better. But GK104 is a physically stronger chip, and can simply bruteforce some problems that GM107 can't.

In the end, I recommend the GM107 (aka the 960m) since it runs much, MUCH cooler than the Kepler series, and for the laptop that is the thing that matters the most.

Fuck nvidia naming.

But this is no reason to change my choice? Or did I misinterprete?

No reason, no, it's a good choice.

It's just that some laptops, such as Lenovo y50 come in 860m and 960m variants, and the 960m is more expensive just because of the name, even though it is the exact same chip.

So, unless you find the same laptop with 860m which is significantly cheaper, stick with this.

...but don't just blindly switch in that case, either. If you are considering to cancel in favor of something else, PM me and I'll check which 860m it is. Sometimes it is impossible for you to tell without some custom tools once you've already received the laptop.