If we're bringing 20 year differences in, don't forget that crime has dropped dramatically.

http://www.ncgunblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/2011-Violent-Crime.jpg

All this talk of crime and no one I mentioning the muffin massacre. In 1936 only a few years into the Japanese occupation of china the pro-muffin Japanese brutally slaughtered nearly 10,000 fortune cookies. That is a crime.

I'm a bit late to the party, but I feel the need to respond to this: "Has Japan ever put Americans in concentration camps?"

First, I should point out that internment camps are different from concentration camps. While the American (and Canadian) governments might have rounded up the Japanese and forced them into camps, they were not systematically exterminated, nor were the people there subject to biological experimentation. The Japanese, on the other hand . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

Some excerpts:
"Between 3,000 and 12,000 men, women, and children[1][2]—from which around 600 every year were provided by the Kempeitai[3]—died during the human experimentation conducted by Unit 731 at the camp based in Pingfang alone, which does not include victims from other medical experimentation sites.[4] Almost 70% of the victims who died in the Pingfang camp were Chinese, including both civilian and military.[5] Close to 30% of the victims were Russian.[6] Some others were South East Asians and Pacific Islanders, at the time colonies of the Empire of Japan, and a small number of Allied prisoners of war.[7] The unit received generous support from the Japanese government up to the end of the war in 1945."

"Prisoners, including one known POW,[15] were subjected to vivisection without anesthesia.[16] Vivisections were performed on prisoners after infecting them with various diseases. Researchers performed invasive surgery on prisoners, removing organs to study the effects of disease on the human body. These were conducted while the patients were alive because it was feared that the decomposition process would affect the results.[17] The infected and vivisected prisoners included men, women, children, and infants.[18]"

Another article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes

More excerpts:
"One case of human experimentation occurred in Japan itself. At least nine out of 11 crew members survived the crash of a U.S. Army Air Forces B-29 bomber on Kyūshū, on May 5, 1945. (This plane was Lt. Marvin Watkins' crew of the 29th Bomb Group of the 6th Bomb Squadron.[78]) The bomber's commander was separated from his crew and sent to Tokyo for interrogation, while the other survivors were taken to the anatomy department of Kyushu University, at Fukuoka, where they were subjected to vivisection or killed.[79][80]"

"Many written reports and testimonies collected by the Australian War Crimes Section of the Tokyo tribunal, and investigated by prosecutor William Webb (the future Judge-in-Chief), indicate that Japanese personnel in many parts of Asia and the Pacific committed acts of cannibalism against Allied prisoners of war. In many cases this was inspired by ever-increasing Allied attacks on Japanese supply lines, and the death and illness of Japanese personnel as a result of hunger. According to historian Yuki Tanaka: "cannibalism was often a systematic activity conducted by whole squads and under the command of officers".[110] This frequently involved murder for the purpose of securing bodies. For example, an Indian POW, Havildar Changdi Ram, testified that: "[on November 12, 1944] the Kempeitai beheaded [an Allied] pilot. I saw this from behind a tree and watched some of the Japanese cut flesh from his arms, legs, hips, buttocks and carry it off to their quarters ... They cut it [into] small pieces and fried it."[111]"

I haven't read anything about systematic targeting of groups, ethnic or otherwise, so I guess it's fair to say that the Japanese didn't have concentration camps as we understand them. However, a comparison of the respective wartime actions of the Japanese and the Americans (or most of the other countries engaged in the war) shows us that, while interment camps were bad, the Japanese were worse.

I gather from your initial post that you are becoming a weeaboo. Stop.

As others have pointed out, Japan has numerous problems that aren't exactly the same as American ones. I think you'll find that Sweden is a better country to compare the USA to if you are looking to score points from the "left". (I use "left" in quotation marks because there are no mainstream leftists in the USA; indeed, the left is dead in North America).

bo_sox, if you're going to play the whole "X country is better than the USA" fuck-fuck game, come up with something better than Japan, FFS. As others have pointed out, they raped entire Chinese cities(!) 75 years ago. CHINESE cities! Not just *regular-sized* cities! Oh, and those nuts dropped sarin gas in that subway.

Despite what the propagandists might have you think, there are very few countries that can claim moral high ground over the United States.

Bo - Japan is an ethnically homogenous nation. Japan is also an aging nation, with a low youth population and very low youth unemployment

Bo - unless you're trolling you're a complete idiot (although, if you're trolling you may still be a complete idiot). Japan has committed some of the worse ethnically motivated genocides of all time. Also, switzerland being neutral in wars isn't a good thing. That just means being a pussy that doesn't fight for justice, and/or helping the nazis steal jewish money.

@Socrates: Trust me, you don't want to Switzerland a pussy. They are armed to the teeth and will beat your ass if you go too far.

The gas was 20 years ago, and funnily enough, after that attack, the people of Japan were wise enough to stigmatize cult religions. Now they don't have any issues with that, unlike in the US. When someone commits mass murder in the US, the NRA hands out *more* guns. Because they are morons.

You don't prescribe bacteria to kill bacteria, you prescribe antibacteria, which slowly eradicates the original culprit. Good ole USA forgets how easy it can be.

Soc Dis, you really are scrooge. Neutrality in wars in is a beautiful thing. Why commit suicide to the Germans when you know they won't dare enter your mountains if not provoked?

The example of Japan to make the point was not ideal. A simple correlation of homicide rates and gun ownership over a large variety of developed countries would have been more persuasive I think.

On the other hand, "There are very few countries that can claim moral high ground over the US" is a truly LOL-worthy statement. I love that some Americans actually believe this. Its good comic relief.

Not fighitng for justice is evil or being a pussy. Who really thinks you should be 'neutral' (i.e. mildly supporting the nazis) and let the holocaust happen when you can fight against it? Good to know how bo would have acted though. I am scrooge, but I thinkk saying that I prefer for instance the french resistance to the vichy government isn't scrooge-esque - unless you're talking about after he has seen all the ghosts and changes.

Also, as an fyi, I do not think the US is a particularly great country in a moral sense. At all.

Switzerland as a nation would have been annihilated if they had stood up to the Nazis. They were wise and concerned of the wellbeing of their own people first and foremost. That's their job description. Their neutrality saved lives and prevented Swiss Jews from being taken into the Nazi camps.

Not true at all Bo. The Swiss would have easily repulsed the Nazis.

Bo, if you hate your country so much, why don't you just leave?

Chaqa, I sincerely doubt that if the Nazis had tried they would not have been able to take over Switzerland. While tanks don't really work that high in the mountains, planes still do, and Switzerland would have almost no way of stopping any bombing runs. It doesn't quite excuse the Swiss for cooperation, though.

Anyway, if we really want to stop irresponsible people having guns, all we need to do is make the person that provided the gun partially liable for stuff that happens with it. I expect stores would be a lot more careful with who they sell to.

Phil, the Swiss could have likely blocked the mountain passes into the Swiss heartland. I don't know if it was the case back then, but during the Cold War (and maybe today) the Swiss had explosives rigged to block every mountain pass, road, bridge, tunnel, etc. into Switzerland in case of invasion.

@ pangloss: bo doesn't let little things like facts or reality get in the way of his naive moral platitudes.

@chaqa - they only removed the explosives from the blasting holes in the past year or so. I think they only did that after ww2 though

@trip ... I am. Give me a few years. Anyway, I don't hate the US, it's just fun to piss you guys off.

Don't flatter yourself, bo.

Someone remind me when I get home to scan this thread for profile quotes.

Or just point out the best ones.

I enjoy these debates about US gun laws, you know why? Because in the UK where private gun ownership is very tightly controlled we have zero debate. In the last twenty-odd years I haven't heard anyone argue for a relaxation of the law so as to enable people to own more guns. I wonder why that is?

I know we have different laws because of our culture, apparently uk citizens either care more or care less about their loved ones. No one has explained to me which, just that it's different.

The fact that some people actually believe that america has moral highground over some other countries is truly funny. Especially considering that it is the inky country that has ever launched 1, or 2, atomic bombs. Both of wich were launched mainly at civilians as an act of terror. There are also hingg like vietnam, the japanese internment camps, the 350 years of slavery, the kkk, among others. Japan participsted in WW 2 but that's all. The fact that they were sometimes brutal is not proof of racism, especially in the modern world.

They're all to busy sliding their cars around corners to be out shooting each other. Peace through drifting.

I think that both groups are wrong. America should admit it is an empire, which is not a bad thing and then using that logic everything America does is what has historically happened in every empire throughout history. 1) proliferation of conflicts on the fringes of the empire (Vietnam, Korea, Iraq) 2) disenfranchisement and slavery of minority ethnic groups (black, asian, and various forms of European throughout history) 3) use of new weaponry to improve the efficiency of combat (nuclear weapons)..... If people look at it that way America is just a modern imperial empire. Which in of itself is not a bad thing. Every empire has driven forth a different kind of change and advancement. Empires inherently have the resources to act as testing grounds for new radical ideas. With the American empire came the vast connectivity of the world which should in due time lead to the final empire, which will be one that consists of the entire globe. I see the things America does and has done and while I don't agree with most I understand the value in it. For example the dropping of the bombs on Nagasaki an Hiroshima were done to save lives. Looking at realistically what would have happened if America and the ussr had to invade japan millions would have died. The Japanese were not keen on surrender and the civilian population had been militarized to commit suicide or die fighting the Americans rather than be captured. The self inflicted civilian casualties that would have resulted from a land invasion would have been the percent of civilians killed on Okinawa extrapolated to the entire island of japan. Which is well into the millions. Further the amount of military dead on both sides would have been significant but I usually leave that out of my argument because soldiers die, that is an unfortunate reality of war. Looking purely at the civilian casualties, the dropping of the atomic bombs while cruel and grotesque was more efficient and less deadly than a classic land invasion... Further let's not forget the US requested japan surrender before they dropped the bombs, meaning japan was given not one but two chances to surrender before the final bomb.... Another example slavery can also be looked at and compared to every empire ever: Rome- slaves, Egypt- slaves, England - slaves, Spain - slaves, china - slaves, Persia- slaves, America- slaves; what should be realized is that England was the first empire to renounce slavery, after they established economic ties to all of their connected branches; America soon followed suit and then like every nation on the face of the earth faced broad and sweeping racism.. Again I'm not condoning racism here just saying that it has existed in some form in every empire throughout history. Romans enslaved minorities from the fringes of the empire; Egypt enslaved Jews and other ethnic groups; China enslaved vast numbers of their Asian neighbors; and the European nations enslaved Africans and Native Americans.... So just thinking of that America is not on moral high ground but is on the same level as every empire throughout history.

I didn't read that but I searched the post for the word "muffin" and I didn't find it and that in itself is an achievement.

"Anyway, I don't hate the US, it's just fun to piss you guys off."

The joke's on us, guys! We've been had. bo_sox sure showed us. He was just pretending to be stupid! It was all an elaborate ruse. We played right into his hand.

http://i.imgur.com/21jMaoL.png