" If it raises campus awareness though..."

UGH...are you fucking kidding me? What closet-sheltered putz is going to college that is unaware of such things? How about PARENTS - DO YOU FUCKING JOB and educate your kids about sex, and teach your daughters how to fucking knee an asshole hard in the sack if he gets too grabby! (That's right...the krelly girls will be fully encouraged to crush your junk into nutt butter)

Note that sexual assault does not need contact - I wonder if this is designed to cover flashing or the like?

y2, I read that article and can't help but feel that behind most of these stories, there is a part where they "complied" under duress. If you are raped, you don't comply unless there are weapons involved. If you comply, you are still a victim, but lose a lot of your case as was the case here....

Wow maniac, thanks for that! Unfortunately, I already complained to PAVE, I expect a rather smug response from them, now.

How can this possibly be the definition of sexual assault? WTF? I mean literally every woman I've ever kissed has sexually assaulted me while simultaneously I sexually assaulted her. That's jacked up.

Yeah, YJ, pretty much. Guess guys should sign contracts before we make moves from now on.

It's not rape, it's surprise sex.

..."every woman I've ever kissed has sexually assaulted me" Please do not make sexual assault allegations on the forum

How about saving it till the honeymoon night so you won't have to worry about it?

@slyguy what part of "even if you are in a relationship" did you not understand?

I really doubt that they'd make a big deal out of it if you were in a martial relationship with the girl...

Right because husbands own their wives and can do as they please with them.

@krellin normally I entertain arguments like what you say, but I don't think I (or you) would enjoy telling a young woman, "so sorry, we could have educated the guy who did this to you, but it was his parents job, so, you know... oops!"

I agree that the whole "always get consent" thing seems a bit opaque to me as well; it's not clear who exactly it's supposed to get though to. All I can say is that there must be a sizable demographic of nominally "decent" men who, in practice, show bad judgement in certain situations where obtaining consent would prevent them from doing something awful.

Yeah, slyguy, that's pretty messed up. A complaint from a married woman against her husband should be taken just as seriously as from an unmarried woma against her boyfriend/neighbor/stranger.

I was not implying that at all. A married woman's complaint against her husband should absolutely be taken seriously. What I was trying to say was that if people would only wait till marriage, they wouldn't have to worry about a lot of these things. That last comment was badly worded and I see how it could have been interpreted differently. Sorry.

"@krellin normally I entertain arguments like what you say, but I don't think I (or you) would enjoy telling a young woman, "so sorry, we could have educated the guy who did this to you, but it was his parents job, so, you know... oops!""

Do NOT misunderstand what I am saying - I do NOT advocate sexual assualt - but if a girl is getting hot and heavy with a dude, slightly drunk, making out, hands on thighs, hugging...and a boob squeeze gets thrown in - THIS is not sexual assualt. THIS is nromal behavior of healthy human beings in the prime of sexual reproductive age. THIS is the thing a responsible parent INFORMS their child most likely WILL happen at some point in their dating life, and TEACHES them how to handle it...disengage if you don't like it, knee him in the nutts if he persists, etc etc etc...but do NOT ruin a boys life with *FALSE* claims of "sexual assault" for a boob grab you **totally set him up to do**.

That is what I'm saying.

If my daughters called me up and said some boy grabbed their tit AFTER they put themselves in a compromising situation and got some hormone-filled kid all hot and horny...sorry, daughters, I'll talk to the boy and scare the hell out of him for you...but...you put yourself in the firing range and got shot...Unless he truly violates them...i think a chick can survive a boob grab. Our utterly demented hyper-victim-status society has turned NORMAL human sexual development into a crime.

And yet, every time some Hollywood or NBA star decides he wants to go public about loving to plug the butthold, pound the poop shoot, we are supposed to jump for joy and cheer on his new open and overt sexuality as if public sexuality is such a great thing....

...and then a young kid, living in a hyper-sexualized society, grabs a tit and he is labelled for life by psycho chicks and a society that suddenly thinks *normal* sexual behavior is perverse!!! WTF?!!?.

It's *fucked up*.

@slyguy that makes sense, actually, well, not counting the waiting part :)

@krellin yeah no I get what you mean for sure. What I'm saying is that situations exist fairly often where a man actually thinks he didn't do anything wrong, and a woman feels like she was raped/assaulted. I feel that asking for consent is most applicable in these situations - it removes any doubt from both parties. That's the ONLY reason I like the idea.

A couple of points. The email says "consent" not "verbal consent" so mutual making out is pretty clearly consensual. Furthermore the question of the absence of "no" simply rules that out as a defense and rules out the molestation of people who are, say, passed out or not capable of giving consent. Similarly coerced "consent" isn't consent.

Long story short, if you behave like a decent human being and not se sexist troglodyte asshole you won't have a problem. Frankly there is nothing here that simple decency wouldn't also dictate. If you have to be told this stuff then you have some growing up to do

Oh and rape and sexual assault are two different things

Krellin - In a democracy such as the USA is sexual assault (a) What ever Krellin says it is or (b) whatever the DoJ says it is? If you had boys rathar than girls would you be telling them that '[if] a boob squeeze gets thrown in - THIS is not sexual assualt. THIS is nromal behavior of healthy human beings in the prime of sexual reproductive age." Or would you be advising them of the DoJ interpretation [even if you disagree with it].

I ask, not to be arguementative, but because i'm also a parent [2 boys, 1 girl] and my advice to them has been different so far. Note different, not better.

Ogion - "Oh and rape and sexual assault are two different things" Rape is always sexual assault, sexual assault is not always rape.

Maniac, you are a moron. You are the type of asshole that thinks "zeero tolerance" means kindergartners should be expelled for bringing a plastic army man to school.

Violent LIBTARD AUTHORITARIANISM at its finest, coupled ass-to-ass with LIBTARD VICTIM-CREATION MENTALITY, by which *every* group achieves some sort of victim status which the state, and ONLY the state, can provide remedy.

I pity you stupid fools.

If *everyone* took a fucking chill pill and put on their *common sense* hat, they would tell the fucking Libtard Victim-Creation machine to go to hell, and fire every prosecutor and judge that destroys a child's life for daring to grow up and explore his surroundings at an appropriate moment (which would be when chick is sucking on your neck)

It *IS* the people of this country that are at fault for this insanity - because you people buy into this victim shit and support it and purport it and pass it on in ever-increasingly hysterical tones...

Krellin - I do not believe kindergartners should be expelled for bringing a plastic army man to school.

Could you, for once, just answer a question? You can include references to moron or libtard or any expletive you like; Just tell us - in the USA who should define sexual assault [or indeed any crime] the DoJ or Krellin?

@ Ogion that interpretation of what "consent" entails is not, to my understanding, standard. Consent is generally (in this context) defined as "A clearly stated yes, not the absence of a no." Consent must be verbal.

Now yeah, for you and me maybe mutual making out is clearly consensual. It's pretty clearly consensual to me too when I slip off those panties and get ready for my big entrance as well. This feeling of "being sure" is where we get into problems though.

@maniac I like krellin's definition better. According to the DoJ I regularly commit sexual assault.

@ YJ - yeah I actually like driving my car beyond the speed limit at times, but I respect my nations authority to set the sped limit and I'm aware of the reprocussions if I get caught. What I have difficulty with is telling my kids, yeah drive as you like the state is an ass. I can't see how that helps my kids.

@maniac understood.

It's actually a more difficult question than you make it out to be though - the eternal question between "good" and "order." Often they are the same thing, and we tend to default to following what's orderly (the state's interpretation). However, when the state gets too tyrannical (in other instances) or boneheaded (in this instance), I do begin to seriously think that ignoring and protesting laws is legitimate.

That's what civil disobedience is all about. I'm not saying for sure that that's the solution here, but I'm certainly not comfortable with the label of, "YJ, perpetratory of sexual assault."

You are married with kids... I assume you don't ask your wife for verbal consent each and every time you are intimate. Are YOU comfortable with the label that the law puts on you for your failure?