Anyways though, with current compression algorithms and the massively decreasing cost of space it wouldn't be unreasonable to record and save every conversation for a limited duration. A few days worth, say a week, would be easy with current space capacities and compression. Up to a few months would be possible. More then that is going to take up an amount of space that is just unreasonable for the near future. Long term though if the current rates of data storage continue then storing every call for a significant length of time (years) will be more then feasible.

Oh no, he's not insulting people left and right again is he, it's when he starts on the people in the centre that I tend to get concerned, you know the decent people, Christians, the people who really care about us.

Not insulted btw krellin, although I do think your language is in my favour on this one.

Also, what would SYnapse think is going on? :)

By the way, Krellin, insinuating that someone is gay, when you clearly mean it as an insult, is not good. I wouldn't care if you said it about me, and I doubt that many people would be that offended, since you could make a point that to be offended is to be homophobic, but it doesn't mean it is appropriate in a discussion, considering you meant it as an insult, and not as an example of breach of privacy.

Also it's not offending to me but it could be to gay people.

My gay lover in particular.

(joke, no offence gay people)

Actually, no, referring to the phone call to his gay lover int eh middle of the night is only insulting if you, the reader, apply an insult to it. I use it because it is a socially scintillating scenario...one that the voyeurs would be interested in listening to, as opposed to a call to his grandmother. If *YOU* think that was intended as an insult, then it is *YOU* that needs to examine your own attitudes regarding homosexuality.

As in most cases, the insult, the harm, is in the ears of the hearer, not the sayer.

Call me anything you wish...they are words. More importantly, they are words from an anonymous source on some fringe web site on the internet. You really think your words can insult me, unless they have real meaning to me?

For example...a year ago, when I was struggling in the depths of severe alcoholism, and my behavior (believe it or not) was far worse than it is now, there were times when the words of some stung me. The evil Draugnar reached out to me privately and encouraged me, and in part because of this community (as well as my family, of course) I got myself under control and am clean today....but the words only hurt because they were true. Today, Santa, Putin and a few others like to try to insult me and call me a drunk...the words are impotent and harmless today, because I am not a drunk today, and further I know they know this...so the words have no power over me, because I don't allow them.

So...if the image of someone calling his gay lover bothers you, it is you that is the problem, not me, not the image. But, in our *society*, which *pretends* that everybody is open to homosexuality and accepting, such imagery is still truly not accepted,is still something that many bristle at, see as abnormal, etc. It is something to which the voyeurs would listen with great interest...and it is something that clearly caught your eye as something of interest and different. So the problem is you, *if* it bothered you.

tl;dr. Krellin is still an angry troll with authoritarian tendencies.

"Krellin, you started off great, and then started insulting people left and right."

krellin did WHAT??? No! ;)

Krellin, I appreciate that you meant no harm, but the use of the second person makes it seem like an insult. If you want to avoid such accusations in the future, you'll need to try making fewer statements phrased similarly to an insult. Sorry for misinterpreting your words.

"Accusations"....pleeeease...be a little more dramatic, will you.

How about this: if you are mentally shallow enough that you can't look past a little flamboyant imagery to grasp the point of the post, then the problem is your intellect, not the imagery. I'm NOT saying that you can't grasp the point, but it's a pretty standard defense line of the libtards around here: "Wahhhh...that was insulting...wahhhhhh...." and they pretend the argument isn't valid or doesn't exist because of an insulting comment. Ironically, these same libtards often pepper their own arguments and replies with insults, thus making them ridiculous.

Haha ok... but if I say to you, "Hey krellin I think dogs are better than cats because they are more loyal and more energetic and you can take them to the park, oh and by the way you are a fucking RETARDED CAT LOVING COCK GOBBLER if you disagree."

Now, what part of that argument do you notice the most?

btw I'm a cat person too, so don't read too much into that :P

But back on topic, my problem with the feds listening in is that EVERYBODY is doing something illegal. We all have something to hide. Once the government has unlimited access to everything anybody does, it's only a matter of them deciding when a person is "undesirable" enough to bring up the charges.

Feel like joining a protest? Hope you didn't drive 5 mph over the speed limit at all last week, or you'll probably be detained on your way. Not in favor of the war? You're gonna regret having smoked that pot last year. That kind of thing.

Really, krellin, as a person as fiercely protective of his own rights and privacy as you've shown yourself to be, I'm surprised you aren't horrified at the idea!

@YJ - I actually read the entire argument and noticed it all. If I was actually discussing the merits of cats vs dogs, I would ignore your insult, OR I would do two things: Address your argument, and then return the insult.

btw - I foster kitten, own 4 cats and 2 dogs....Each has their merits.

OK but that's fairly atypical... most people (not just mewling libtards like me) wouldn't see much but the insult.

" my problem with the feds listening in"

Right off the bat, you are wrong, and typical of most Americans. they are not "listening in". That is just an outright falsehood to say they are listening in to all Americans.

re: Me, privacy, freedom, etc - IF I believed that the government was currently abusing this power, I would be outraged. But as it stands, there is really no indication of harm to normal Americans by this data collection and storage (and that's all it really is). People are not disappearing in the night, people are not being audited, nobody is kept from protesting the war, etc. People HAVE been audited, though, by the IRS for being a member of the Tea Party...that we all know. This is a matter of National Security, which is one of the few things the Feds are *supposed* to do. I'm far more concerned with the government-mandated curriculum in my child's school, my tax rates, the pending destruction of our health care system, over taxation and over regulation, etc than I am about some federal listener finding out what my wife wants me to pick up from Krogers...

And would mostly remember the insult, since it breaks the flow of the argument. You have excellent arguments, krellin, but sometimes your insults sidetrack what you wanted to say.

"OK but that's fairly atypical... most people (not just mewling libtards like me) wouldn't see much but the insult. "

OK....then I'm atypical, because I read the entire post and choose what/how I want to respond to. You are just reinforcing my belief that most people are thoughtless, emotionally driven twits for whom actual intellectual integrity takes a back seat to their "feelings..."

People don't get audited for being members of the Tea Party, just some assholes decided to attack certain Tea Party political groups for auditing. I think what was wrong, was that they failed to do it to Democrat groups, because politics is a place tax evasion should be avoided.

Also, what would you suggest instead of a government mandated curriculum? Teacher teaches random shit he found on internet?

Not that YOU are that, of course...lol

But anyway, even if you are a calm, collected individual, don't agitate the emotionally driven twits like me, please. We could be arguing about different stuff.

phil a ....uh...teachers ARE teaching random shit from the internet. I have two kids in high school...

Maybe this is a difficult concept for you to grasp, but there was a time when the curriculum was decided at the highest on a state level, but more often on teh *local* level. What??!?! GASP! You mean those local School Officials that ran for office and I voted for were the ones deciding what math book to use? WHAT?!? You mean the highly educated teachers were allowed to determine what was best for their students? The HELL you say...

What the fuck makes you think some Government Appointed Bureaucrat in Washington knows best about what you child, or children in your region, need to know?

Good lord...if the same government appointed bureaucrats want to listen to your phone calls and tell you that is best for your safety, you call them liars and say they don't know what they are talking about. But when they suddenly tell you these are the low education standards everyone must meet, you jump for joy....wtf????

Most of the time, my issue with the government mandated curriculum is that it is not DIFFICULT enough, and because the focus on things like history, writing, math, science is LACKING. I'm astounded at what my children are NOT learning, and how much time they have to spend on bullshit.

So a government appointed bureaucrat can't know what is good for a kid in Montana, but a government appointed bureaucrat can be allowed to have the power to spy on the private goings on of citizens without oversight. I mean, one at worst is a crappy... but the other at worst is downright terrifying.

Something that rhymes with "lack of consistency"

You're more than willing to let an authoritarian government walk off with your privacy for the illusion of safety, but if the government is attempting to assist and make things better, you scream and carry on about how they are overreaching.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"

Basically, Krellin is more than willing to sell his privacy and liberty, but god forbid the government try help out schoolkids.(Even if they don't always succeed... at least they're trying)

"Right off the bat, you are wrong, and typical of most Americans. they are not "listening in". That is just an outright falsehood to say they are listening in to all Americans."

Of course it is, and I'm sorry for giving the impression that's what I was saying. The case I am trying to make is that there is a problem when both:

A) the government decides maybe society doesn't need old krellin stirring up trouble
B) the government has the means for unlimited surveillance of krellin without probable cause that a crime has been committed, and the ability to use that data to press charges.

Because sooner than later they WILL find something, and then it's off to the hoosegow for old krellin

Your 4th amendment is a treasure, sir. Defend it.

But I agree that the abuses you mention are not happening to an extreme degree.

But recent events concerning the patriot act, detainees in guantanamo, and the whole snowden business makes me think it's not so farfetched to think that they could start in the near future.

@YJ - so your argument is not about what the government is doing, it's about what they might do....taking away freedoms, all that good stuff....you sound like a Tea Party Conservative...

Yes, I'm araid of a government that wants to take away my rights to defend myself. I'm afraid of a government that wants to limit my freedom of speech...and it starts when the government says I'm commiting a crime if I say something homophobic...because right on the heels of limiting "hate" speech comes the limiting of *political* speech. I'm concerned about a government that wants to tell me what I can eat, drink and smoke. I’m concerned about a government that wants to tell me what car I can drive, and what source of energy I am allowed to use.

I’m concerned about the government running health care, because right on the heels of the holy grail of single-payer government health care is absolute control over *every* aspect of your like, because everything you do, everything you consume, everywhere you go has potential health implications…and thus the ability for the government to mandate your behavior under the noble guise of saving money/saving you from yourself.

Good lord, YJ, if you are truly concerned about the government infringing upon your freedoms, it’s happening ALL AROUND YOU..and it has absolutely nothing to do with the NSA and their so-called spying on citizens…