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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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hootie (100 D)
12 Nov 13 UTC
New Player Question
I'm new to the games. By accident I joined two. One permits me to issue orders, the other does not. Why
2 replies
Open
stupidfighter (253 D)
11 Nov 13 UTC
Hi, I'm new!
So I've found out about this awesome game and I'm looking to get into it while I have the free time available in my schedule.
The game rules are petty clear to me, but how do we communicate in-game? Is there a PM system, or do we use e-mail?
25 replies
Open
SantaClausowitz (360 D)
11 Nov 13 UTC
Draug is watching us... Draug is watching us...
Due to a little complaint sent to the moderators it is obvious our friend draugnar is not only still around, but cares deeply about forum events.
33 replies
Open
hecks (164 D)
08 Nov 13 UTC
Bowie
I don't appreciate David Bowie as much as I think I should, and I feel badly about that, so I'm trying to make today an all-Bowie day at work. So please suggest a Bowie album for me to listen to. What's your favorite Bowie album and why?
35 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
11 Nov 13 UTC
(+1)
Putin
This is your military.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhuzb3WMntc&feature=youtu.be
21 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
10 Nov 13 UTC
Masculinity
At some point during the day, I reflected on this topic. Not in a "am I masculine" kind of way, but I tried to analyze the subject sort of as a neutral non-male observer. Should a "man" be "masculine"? Can a woman be masculine? Fascinating questions if you ask me.
60 replies
Open
Dharmaton (2398 D)
11 Nov 13 UTC
WoTC own Diplo.
www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=ah/prod/diplomacy
4 replies
Open
JECE (1253 D)
07 Nov 13 UTC
philcore: "Meethinks" is a reference to Jar Jar Binks, not Shakespearian English
Where on Earth did or do you go to school?

threadID=1063154
49 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (873 D)
03 Nov 13 UTC
First game
A Sunday afternoon trip down memory lane...
30 replies
Open
ILN (100 D)
03 Nov 13 UTC
niggers
Basically,
38 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
11 Nov 13 UTC
Decline of Civilization
http://www.spike.com/shows/1000-ways-to-die

We are too comfortable, life is to easy, if we have people with time to make this...and make money off this. UNLESS Putin starts in episode 3...then I might be OK with this...
2 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (873 D)
10 Nov 13 UTC
Samsung pays $1bn to Apple.... in small change
http://news-hound.net/samsung-pays-apple-1-billion-sending-30-trucks-full-of-5-cent-coins/
9 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
05 Nov 13 UTC
This is not an apology or a goodbye. This is a statement.
I grow weary of the shit here in the forum. My health is failing and I am trying to go to school. So after this post, I am asking goldfinger to silence me for a period of no less than 1 year. I'll use the time to finish my games and do schoolwork.
75 replies
Open
hecks (164 D)
08 Nov 13 UTC
(+2)
Goats: Nature's Badasses
http://www.trueactivist.com/13-pictures-of-crazy-goats-on-cliffs/

Goats: putting rock climbers to shame since forever.
11 replies
Open
DC35 (0 DX)
31 Oct 13 UTC
(+4)
Dicks
Penis
21 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (873 D)
04 Oct 13 UTC
RIP Vo Nguyen Giap
Those of us interested in military history and strategy should note the death today of one of the 20th Century's great generals.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24402278
47 replies
Open
Al Swearengen (0 DX)
05 Nov 13 UTC
Six Myths about Drone Warfare you Probably Believe
http://www.cracked.com/article_20725_6-myths-about-drone-warfare-you-probably-believe.html
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Gunfighter06 (224 D)
07 Nov 13 UTC
(+1)
@ Invictus

Dude, we're the United States. We can ignore customary international law if we want to, especially a 160-year-old one that was only relevant for half a century after its inception.

As for considering the Benghazi attackers "air pirates", you're right. That's bending the rules way too much; it can't be done. We should have immediately declared war on Libya after the consulate attack.

"I don't see how glorified Dog the Bounty Hunters are better than the US military in attackign terrorists"

Well, giving Blackwater a 1 billion dollar contract to capture UBL would have been a better idea than invading a country that has historically been a graveyard of empires. I don't like the DoD's excessive use of contractors in recent years, but contractors can do specialized things that our military simply cannot do.

"The "reprisal" part just authorizes the individual to cross an international border to achieve the end. What this means is that you can go into a state's internal waters or even a port rather than just operate on the high seas. It doesn't mean "reprisal" as in revenge. Legal terms rarely have the same meaning as the colloquial definition of the word."

Okay, what if we consider the physical bodies of the "air pirates" to be the equivalent of a pirate ship?

"The solution, however, isn't resurrecting an institution that went out of vogue in the nineteenth century and applied to an entirely different situation."

How is it a different situation? The only difference between terrorists and pirates is motivation. Pirates were/are greedy, terrorists are religious fanatics. Both were/are damned near impossible to fight by conventional means.

"You're just attaching yourself to an obsolete scrap of the Constitution that sounds steam-punk and sexy and bending reality to make your argument sound plausible. It isn't."

The Founders didn't have to deal with radical Islamic terrorists when they were writing the Constitution. I'm thinking outside the box to reapply an overlooked power of Congress to a modern problem. Each unique problem has to be dealt with in a different, Constitutional way. The consulate attack (Benghazi) should have resulted in an immediate declaration of war against Libya. 9/11 should have resulted in letters of marque and reprisal to be issued to private contractors against al-Qaeda leadership.

It's not perfect, but it's much, much better to bend the War Powers Clause to fit modern needs than it is to give the President the power to summarily execute anyone in the world at will. It restores Congressional oversight at the very least.

"false choice between supporting that idea or supporting Obama's extra-judicial executions?"

What other choice do we have? I'd rather bend/revive an archaic but effective clause of the Constitution than set a precedent of Presidents having the power to summarily execute anyone in the world whenever they want.
Putin33 (111 D)
07 Nov 13 UTC
I'm rather confused as to whether Bills of Attainder are legal or not. Most recently the government passed the Magnitsky Act which seems to have all the markings of a Bill of Attainder.
Invictus (240 D)
07 Nov 13 UTC
Just because it passed doesn't mean it's constitutional. Someone's probably already sued over it.

I'll deal with you tomorrow, Gunfighter06. You've really gone off the deep end on magical-thinking kookiness lately.
Gunfighter06 (224 D)
07 Nov 13 UTC
@ Putin33

"Just because it passed doesn't mean it's constitutional" - Invictus

Less than 5% of everything the government has done in the last 100 years *has* been constitutional.
Invictus (240 D)
07 Nov 13 UTC
"Less than 5% of everything the government has done in the last 100 years *has* been constitutional."

Don't have time for the big post yet, so I'll just deal with this.

Nonsense. Just rank nonsense. It's not even worth taking apart, it's so transparently untrue. Not every policy you disagree with is necessarily unconstitutional.
Gunfighter06 (224 D)
07 Nov 13 UTC
I disagree with all policies and laws that are unconstitutional.
SYnapse (0 DX)
07 Nov 13 UTC
What about a new constitution?
SYnapse (0 DX)
07 Nov 13 UTC
very age and generation must be as free to act for itself in all cases as the age and generations which preceded it. The vanity and presumption of governing beyond the grave is the most ridiculous and insolent of all tyrannies. Man has no property in man; neither has any generation a property in the generations which are to follow. The Parliament or the people of 1688, or of any other period, had no more right to dispose of the people of the present day, or to bind or to control them in any shape whatever, than the parliament or the people of the present day have to dispose of, bind or control those who are to live a hundred or a thousand years hence.

Thomas Paine
Gunfighter06 (224 D)
07 Nov 13 UTC
@ Synapse

What's wrong with our current Constitution?

(Other than the 16th and 17th Amendments)
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
07 Nov 13 UTC
Such a travesty, we have an income tax, oh no....
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
07 Nov 13 UTC
(+1)
Sigh. This thread was good until it became serious.

What on earth is wrong with the income tax and direct election of senators?
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
07 Nov 13 UTC
(+1)
Who knows, radical libertarian bullshit, huh?
Gunfighter06 (224 D)
07 Nov 13 UTC
(+1)
@ goldfinger0303

I would argue that returning control of US Senators to the state legislatures would result in a better system. The Senate is the house of the States, not the house of the people, so why do the people get to directly elect senators? Also, state legislatures would have the power to recall senators if the 17th Amendment was repealed. That way, if your senator did something moronic you could press your state legislature to recall them, instead of waiting for years for them to come up for a reelection in which they will have all of the advantages of an incumbent. I'll admit that in 1913 state legislatures were more corrupt than a direct election, but nowadays the reverse is true. Elections can be bought. It's a hell of a lot tougher to buy a state legislature. Furthermore, we'd see more common folks serving as US Senators rather than career politicians. Some average joe could win a seat in the state legislature via a grassroots campaign, make a name for himself, and eventually work his way to being a US Senator without having to sell his soul to anyone in order to get elected in a direct election.

As for federal income tax, we functioned just fine for 123 years without a federal income tax. The federal government simply does not need that much money to do its job. The idea that the federal government can steal a part of your hard-earned income is completely disgusting. Time to cut up the government's credit cards and blank checks.
ILN (100 D)
07 Nov 13 UTC
Bo, I suggest you take that dildo shoved up your ass before you get hemorrhoids.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
07 Nov 13 UTC
But if it's shoved up my ass I've already taken it.
I'll have to admit, the Senate theory is interesting and I'll have to think on that some more. Because you're right - state government today is not like what is was a hundred years ago. But would this in any way diminish the importance of small states? Smaller states with career politicians have Senators with vastly more importance than their state actually should wield. Would that decrease at all? And would senators be more vulnerable to single term election swings, like that of the (now hated) Tea Party in 2010?

But I completely 100% reject the notion that we should get rid of income taxes. There are many reasons, but I'll pick two to go down. First off is that it is more efficient economically. Taxes on anything reduce productivity and lead to deadweight losses. Simple economics. However, since labor supply is much more inelastic than demand for goods, property, etc, the deadweight loss from a tax on income is much smaller than that on the tax of another good.

Another approach is the development approach. For the 123 years before it was enacted it wasn't efficient to collect income taxes. The government didn't have the ability to oversee that such a thing was done properly. What it did have the ability to oversee was imports coming through a few ports on the seaboard. Thus it was more efficient to raise revenue via a tax on commodities. You see this in developing nations today - which have little to no income tax while having higher commodity taxes.
krellin (80 DX)
07 Nov 13 UTC
"I'll have to admit, the Senate theory is interesting" It's not a "theory". It's how it used to be by design...
No, the "theory" is that governance will be better by going back to how it used to be structured.
SYnapse (0 DX)
07 Nov 13 UTC
I have no beef with the constitution but it's not the only measuring stick of good law
Gunfighter06 (224 D)
07 Nov 13 UTC
@ goldfinger

"But would this in any way diminish the importance of small states? Smaller states with career politicians have Senators with vastly more importance than their state actually should wield. Would that decrease at all?"

Probably not. Regardless of how they are selected, each state stills gets two senators. I believe that the decrease in career politicians would be consistent regardless of state size, but honestly I hadn't thought of the difference between states that could potentially arise. I still think repealing the 17th is worth it for the reduction in corruption alone. We all know how fucked up the electoral process is. State legislature elections are generally more "pure" than statewide elections.

"And would senators be more vulnerable to single term election swings, like that of the (now hated) Tea Party in 2010?"

Yes, but that's not a bad thing at all. Like I said, as things stand senators can get away with anything for about four years after reelection, because no one is going to remember come election time. They also have all of the advantages of incumbency in a direct election. In a state legislature-appointed system, the combined advantages of incumbency and guaranteed six-year terms are mitigated and/or eliminated.

The problem of corporate donors essentially "buying" senators would be eliminated as well. First of all, there is no need to campaign when senators are appointed by their state legislature. Second, no one is going to dump resources into someone that could be removed from office at any time by something as small as a grassroots movement.

"But I completely 100% reject the notion that we should get rid of income taxes. There are many reasons, but I'll pick two to go down. First off is that it is more efficient economically. Taxes on anything reduce productivity and lead to deadweight losses. Simple economics. However, since labor supply is much more inelastic than demand for goods, property, etc, the deadweight loss from a tax on income is much smaller than that on the tax of another good.

Another approach is the development approach. For the 123 years before it was enacted it wasn't efficient to collect income taxes. The government didn't have the ability to oversee that such a thing was done properly. What it did have the ability to oversee was imports coming through a few ports on the seaboard. Thus it was more efficient to raise revenue via a tax on commodities. You see this in developing nations today - which have little to no income tax while having higher commodity taxes."

All are good arguments, but those arguments are based on the assumption that the government should maintain its current size or a size similar to its current size. I'd cut the federal government to the size it was 150 years ago, and we wouldn't *need* an income tax to run it.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
07 Nov 13 UTC
^ tl;dr - Let's kill 90% of the population so that we can go back to pre-Civil War population sizes
What happens if you're wrong though, gunfighter? What if its not the election campaigns where they're bought but its by the lobbyists? The problem is that we have reasonable suspicions about why lawmakers act the way they do, but we don't know for sure what is guiding these decisions.

And I'm saying that regardless of the size of the government an income tax will put less distortions on the economy than any other kind of tax. Do you put the tax on property? Well, that unfairly punishes landowners. On food? Well, the rich don't pay their fair share in that case. On luxury imports? The poor don't pay at all then, and we may drive luxury businesses out of the country.
Gunfighter06 (224 D)
07 Nov 13 UTC
@ bo_sox48

I said 19th century size, NOT 19th century population. The theory that the size of the federal government should be tied to population is completely asinine.

@ goldfinger

"What happens if you're wrong though, gunfighter? What if its not the election campaigns where they're bought but its by the lobbyists?"

The advantages still outweigh the disadvantages. It makes senators more accountable to their state at the very least, which is a good thing because the US Senate is supposed to be the house of the states. Besides, if senators are directly elected, then they unfairly represent the people instead of fairly representing the states.
Gunfighter06 (224 D)
07 Nov 13 UTC
@ goldfinger continued

I understand your arguments in favor of the income tax, but I would favor making the federal government so minuscule that non-income taxes would be small. The only time ANYONE should interact with the federal government is when they join the military or when their mail gets delivered.
ILN (100 D)
07 Nov 13 UTC
Mail a federal duty? LOL. Private sector does a million times better at that. Ever hear of lysander Spooner? UPS? FedEx?
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
07 Nov 13 UTC
(+1)
Well, I really like the FDA, Gunfighter. And the NIH (the ones that do the research to create vaccines and prevent a pandemic?). And then there's border control, which I rather like too. And the FBI. Oh, and Dept of Commerce is needed to conduct any international trade these days, so they're needed as well. And I do like the SEC too, because Wall Street has been known to cheat. And FDIC insures that if I put money in a bank I'm guaranteed to have it, so they can stay too.

Do you see what I'm getting at?
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
07 Nov 13 UTC
Why wouldn't the government grow as the population grew? Why do you think the empires of the past collapsed? Why do you think Europe is ruled by Germany, Britain, and France instead of Rome and Greece? They didn't extend their power and their empires got picked off little by little.
And I would have probably backed you on the senator thing if you had refrained from the states' rights argument.
Putin33 (111 D)
07 Nov 13 UTC
"Less than 5% of everything the government has done in the last 100 years *has* been constitutional."

All laws are constitutional until a judge arbitrarily decides they are not. That's how this works.

Gunfighter has a point in that the direct election of Senators hasn't diminished the problem that the 17th amendment sought to address - the fact that the Senate is a millionaires' club. Although having them selected by the state governments isn't going to change that any. The Senate is an archaic institution that needs to disappear or have its powers diminished ala the House of Lords.

Gunfighter06 (224 D)
07 Nov 13 UTC
@ ILN

The Postal Service is constitutionally mandated. While I agree that the private sector would be much better at mail delivery, I will continue to defend the USPS as long as the Postal Clause remains in the Constitution.

@ goldfinger

"Well, I really like the FDA, Gunfighter. And the NIH (the ones that do the research to create vaccines and prevent a pandemic?). And then there's border control, which I rather like too. And the FBI. Oh, and Dept of Commerce is needed to conduct any international trade these days, so they're needed as well. And I do like the SEC too, because Wall Street has been known to cheat. And FDIC insures that if I put money in a bank I'm guaranteed to have it, so they can stay too."

I don't like any of those agencies, especially border control or the FBI. Border enforcement should be a military responsibility. People act like secured the border is so difficult, but it's really not. Deploy the military to the border. With live ammunition. It's beyond belief that we can secure the borders of the Kunar province but not the Mexico-Texas border.

"Why wouldn't the government grow as the population grew? Why do you think the empires of the past collapsed? Why do you think Europe is ruled by Germany, Britain, and France instead of Rome and Greece? They didn't extend their power and their empires got picked off little by little."

I would argue that Rome and Greece overextended themselves, just as America has done. The federal government is trying to do far too much for far too many people and the burden is placed squarely on the people who can least afford to care for others. Besides, I said "federal government". If the states want to play Good Samaritan or communist, they can do so as long as they don't infringe on individual rights.

@ goldfinger continued

What does my anti-17th Amendment have to do with my states' rights argument?

@ Putin33

I'll respond to you later. Wait one.

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67 replies
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
09 Nov 13 UTC
Party room
For those late night games when people are dicks.

Here's to us!
2 replies
Open
ILN (100 D)
09 Nov 13 UTC
Guy faked being black to win election
Genius in action: http://www.khou.com/news/local/White-guy-wins-after-leading-voters-to-believe-hes-black-231222981.html
17 replies
Open
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
09 Nov 13 UTC
(+4)
Glory to Arstotzka
Your face, it is different.
20 replies
Open
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
08 Nov 13 UTC
(+1)
Bubble ...... what bubble !!
When a company that has never made a profit floats on Wall Street and rises 73% on its first day of trading and the company is valued at US$31bn you know capitalism is fucked.
11 replies
Open
Dharmaton (2398 D)
09 Nov 13 UTC
Cpt. Kirk rides his ship
railguns anyone?
1 reply
Open
ILN (100 D)
08 Nov 13 UTC
Absurd
The wonders of government efficiency - The cost to build a street: http://cdn.thegridto.com/wp-content/uploads/527a85e0c67b1-DPS.jpg
20 replies
Open
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
07 Nov 13 UTC
(+10)
Dick shoots a big load in somebody's face
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/12/cheney/
20 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
09 Nov 13 UTC
Piss Me Off
I'm inspired....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSEYXWmEse8
0 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
09 Nov 13 UTC
(+3)
Really Dirty Video (Warning)
WARNING: It's getting boring around here, so if a really dirty video offends you, DO NOT CLICK THROUGH.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpNyQlNh_5E
13 replies
Open
Al Swearengen (0 DX)
09 Nov 13 UTC
Russia
Russian soldier doing a back-flip over barbed-wire while throwing an axe at a target?

2 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
07 Nov 13 UTC
(+1)
Imitation thread
Let's do this again. Imitate other forum members in this thread. Keep it nice and light.
35 replies
Open
SantaClausowitz (360 D)
08 Nov 13 UTC
(+8)
Learned something new this week.
I didn't know mapleleaf was the mayor of Toronto.
3 replies
Open
SYnapse (0 DX)
08 Nov 13 UTC
(+1)
On privacy and hysteria
More to follow
65 replies
Open
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