http://www.pewforum.org/Government/Faith-on-the-Hill--The-Religious-Composition-of-the-113th-Congress.aspx

The federal government of the people came to be when the constitution was ratified. We have two sources of law in this country. The constitution and common law.

Constitution makes no endorsement of religion(quite the opposite)

English common law's roots predate Christianity.

American law is not based on or derived from Christianity. We can thank the enlightenment for our republic.

As opposed to the Artiest Persecution Complex...all those little moral deviants running around that scream in agony and fall to the ground pretending their ears are bleeding whenever anyone dares utter a prayer in front of them, as if they are so weak-willed they may give up their beliefs and convert to Christianity on the spot through God's Magical Words...

Hmmm...that would be Atheist Persecution Complex....damned auto-correct.

Auto-correct, now THAT is certainly a hell-spawned piece of technology if there ever was one! It sure as hell is the one thing on earth that distinctly points to the existence of the Devil!!!

Auto correct as spawn of the devil. Forget plus one that one gets an amen :-)

Since when are you not allowed to pray in your own time?

Pray whenever you like. I find it silly, personally, but its your time to waste.

Jack, you're frothing at the mouth again.

Answer the question? When are you being prevented from praying?

Froth froth froth....

Jack, you silly atheists....hell, I've seen ateists IN THESE FORUMS tell people that they should have their parental rights removed for teaching their kids religion.

Are ALL atheists so insane? Probably not...but let's not be a total douchebag (I know, that's hard for you...) and pretend that there are not very loud, very vocal atheists that do NOT want Christians to have freedom to express their faith in any way, shape or form.

Likewise, not ALL Christians want to convert you, etc, blah blah blah. They would like a Christmas Tree in the town square because it's PRETTY and fun and traditional...and people LIKE tradition...not because they are tryign to convert you.

Seriosuly, you fucktard atheists go wayyyyyy off the deep all the time. Most Christians are far too pathetic, know far too little about their bible, and live far too sinful a life to EVER be in danger of converting you silly atheists...and seriously...they have to sit through 12 years of Evolution which is against their belief...so it's *really* going to kill you if some 12th grader gets up and ((GASP!!!)) says the Lord's prayer in a speech? Really???? You are THAT unsure of yourself that this action will kill you?

And no....give me a fucking break before you even go there...a kid saying the Lord's prayer at graduation is NOT "the government endorsing a religion". It's a fucking kid saying some words.

You frothing atheists *really* need to get a grip.

And stop oppressing people freedom of speech and right to exercise religion freely.

I think you silly atheists are afraid you might have a moment and doubt and lose your own religious faith, and might, for a second, believe there is something more to the universe. Geeeesh...how awful might that be...

froth froth froth....

go ahead, jackie boy....froth away....

I look forward to mocking you some more later.

I've debated about respondign here and still am to some degree, btu as OBi had the audacity to bring it up...

Declaring war is not a physical act in and of itself and maybe small or large. It may involve simple disobedience or may involve killing thousands of people. It is a mental state. If you wish to see to the complete elimination of a concept or belief and take steps towards that goal, you are declaring war on that concept/belief even if the action is writing a book denouncing it as false.

There is arguably a war on creationism and evolution and religion in general and Christianity specifically and conservativism and liberalism and socialism and, and, and...

That was my point in the other thread. You implied there couldn't be a war because 80% of the US was Christian. That is simple a false statement. That fact that groups are organized against Christian values meansthere is a war. Just as groups are organized against atheism and groups are organized against alternative lifestyles.

There is a war. This is indisputable. Numbers have nothing to do with it. The Romans declared war on Christianity and had far superior numbers. They lost. War is about conflict, not about numbers. When one group of people organize against a set of values, they are delcaring war on that set of values. See how simple it is?

Webster's second definition show exactly how there is a war on Christianity and on gays and on Atheism and on Evolution and on Creationsism.

2

a: a state of hostility, conflict, or antagonism

b: a struggle or competition between opposing forces or for a particular end <a class war> <a war against disease>

c: variance, odds


Now, I'm not saying where I align my views here, especially as I believe in some Christian views but I also believe in the right of others to live their lives as they see fit and I am a firmn believer in evolution as well as true ID (evolution guided by God, not that bullshit the Creationists try to pass as ID that is nothing more than watered down Creationism to apease the masses).

I will also point out that "war" does not necessarily involve the majority of anything. We have 350 Million people, but we go to war with mere thousands.

The Media and Hollywood are a very small minority of America, but they have access to the minds of America, and the media, and Hollywood, are overwhelmingly biased against Religion. At best, they are silent on religion. At worst, and frequently (particularity from Hollywood), they mock Christianity, and make cause children to be ashamed to openly discuss their beliefs in public for fear of being mocked and ashamed, because that is the environment that has been established by our cultural mouthpieces.

So you're able to freely exercise your religion, right.

So very oppressed you are. Clearly.


Also, the level of unintentional irony you're displaying amuses me.

When a high school valedictorian can't even add a simple prayer of thanks to her God in her speech, she is being oppressed. Her faith was as much a contributing factor to her success in her mind and she should have every right to axpress that gratitude.

froth froth froth....No Jack, you illiterate boob. It must be some sort of atheist magic that gives you the inability to read and comprehend....

Christians can NOT freely exercise their religion. This is a very well known and documented FACT.

Now...froth away again, jackie boy...

wow, look at the religion of senate and house of representatives
Republicans: Protestant, Catholic, Mormon, and 1 Jew
Democrats: Protestant, Catholic, Jews, 3 Mormons, 3 Buddhist, 2 Muslims, 1 Hindu, 1 United Universalist, 1 Unaffiliated, 10 unspecific.

I guess that says a bit about the religious right, and the difference between who joins each of the parties.

I'm pretty sure there is a clear pattern here, but coorelation does not imply causation, as they say. Still are the democrats friendlier to secular society, while republicans are fighting for christianity (and 1 jew) in the war on christianity?

If modern American Christians think they're being oppressed, they are pussies.

That said, I think you doughy, self-righteous shit birds could benefit from some actual oppression. Maybe that'll bring you back to your roots and show you what humility really is.

Because as it stands, your religion comes off like a bunch of fucking babies.

If the homosexuals think they are being oppressed, they are pussies.
If women think they are being oppressed in America, they are low slung ball sacks
If the blah blah blah...

Sure...let's face it, we live in the freest, least oppressive society in the history of the world...but we love to bitch...we're good at it.

And as fr Christians in particular, I said my true feeling above - be happy you are being oppressed, because God predicted it would happen IF you are living your life as you should be. In other words, you CAN'T fight it, because God said it would be so, and you can't change the truth that God wrote, right?

And, furthermore, do we really need to be able to say a public prayer to worship our God? No....not really...it really is kind of an in-your-face move. Render unto Ceaser and all that...if Ceasar wants to be a douchebag and not let you pray, so be it.

Why does out government open with prayer at every session? I'm offended. wahhhhh......

If atheists think there is no God and that people are taking to thin air - ie they think Christians/Religious people really are out of touch with reality/insane - then the atheists *really* ought to be fighting for their rights to express their religion publicly, becuase if they are insane, mentally ill, then they should be on government disability and a PROTECTED CLASS.

So again....the atheists are just hypocrites and big old meanies. but most off all I think the atheists are afraid that they see truth behind religion, but they fear having to give up their selfish freedoms if they were to become obediant to a God...

heh heh...suck on that and froth a bit more.

froth froth froth...

Anyone seen my bridge? The sun is a little hot today and I'd like to crawl under for a while...

Just started raining here and cooling things down for a bit finally.

GOD BLESS the rain that gives us cooler air!

THANK YOU GOD!!!

Amen, Lord Jesus!

I'm finding myself enjoying and agreeing with all of krellin's posts in this thread. It's a little frightening.

"Why, exactly, did you come up with this thread?"

Draugnar made a comment about it in the "Men Are Second-Class Citizens" thread, CA.

I said (in many, many more words, of course) that saying men are second-class citizens in the US is as absurd as saying there's a War on Christianity in the most Christian Western nation where 70-80% of the population is Christian and 80-90% of its leaders in Congress, the White House and Supreme Court are Christian.

He said something along the lines of "numbers don't mean there isn't a war" and as an example cited that a tiny group of people declared war on the US by ramming planes into the World Trade Center.

So here we are.

"the Declaration has been considered our Founding Document for many decades, and I think most Americans would heartily disagree with you."

Well, we considered blacks 3/5th of a person for nearly the first century of our existence...that didn't mean that assertion was right or true.

And I think the point still stands--it dissolves ties with Great Britain but does NOT establish the United States of America...

Partly because they weren't so sure they wanted to be united yet, partly because no one knew how that might look or function yet, and partly because, hey, they had to win what was a pretty dire-looking war first, one in which they lost New York and Philadelphia.

So I'd relate that back to your point, CA:

"I think it's pretty much official that 1776 is considered the birth of our nation."

I again make that distinction as I did above between cutting the cord and being truly born in the sense of becoming a person (dare I say born again? ...No.) ;)

You're not really "you" yet the second you're born...you have no personality established yet...even if there's elements coded into you, they haven't been expressed yet...

It takes a few years before you grow up into a toddler and have a mind of your own (a toddler mind that thinks you, too, are oh-so-independent!) ;)

So that's the distinction I'd draw--even if you want to say that the Thirteen Colonies were born as a nation 1776, they weren't the UNITED STATES of America until 1787, and that's the country we are and the one we're talking about now.

As a final point--I think the above argument stands, but even if we did want to consider the Declaration a founding document...

Well, again, technically so were the Articles of Confederation, and the 3/5th compromise in the Constitution, for that matter--and they're no longer applicable.

Further, again, the ONLY reference we get to a deity is the Jeffersonian ideal of a "Creator" as mentioned in the Constitution...and as I've outlined above, Jefferson was no fan of religious scripture, especially books important to the New Testament (ie, Revelations) so between that and Jefferson's being a deist, I don't think you can classify the "Creator" example in the Declaration of Independence as being Christian when, well, its author was notoriously anti-Christian, at least in a religious respect.

I'd add as a final point that if we DID want to accept the Declaration as a founding document...

How about we go back a bit earlier and accept "Common Sense" by Thomas Paine as one as well--after all, it's widely credited with turning a quarrel with the home nation into a full-blown movement for revolution...pretty foundational along those lines...

And as Paine was a NOTORIOUS deist and anti-Christian, dedicating an entire book--"The Age of Reason"--to attacking the Judeo-Christian mythos...

Well, again, our foundations aren't as "Christian" as they may seem at first glance. ;)

"Sounds more like 19th century whalers than 21st Century Christians, you know that right?"

To be fair, CA, a lot of the folks--especially those in the Bible Belt--saying that America is and was founded as a Christian Nation and using that as justification to both push their religion on others and deny rights to others (first blacks, then women, and now gays) sound as if they're right out of the 19th century to me...

Circa 1830 or so. ;)

So how do you explain the fact that the SCOTUS courthouse in D.C. has a figure of Moses holding the ten commandments on the south wall frieze?

dipplayer -- as flagrantly assholish as I may be at times, especially when I believe that whomever I am replying to has never done themselves the wonderful priviledge of exeercising the uniquely human ability to utilize self-awareness of the world around them and apply logic guided by intellect to the decisions they make, which causes me to verbally violate them in a manner which I hope make a few blush every now and then...I am a rather thoughtful person and try to be aware of the world around me, and use history as I understand it, my own experiences and my personal principles to guide my thoughts and beliefs.

:)

Obi -
Question: If the constitution was written by secularists, deists, and anti-Christian enlightenment types, doesn't that put the blame for the 3/5 person clause squarely on the shoulders of those same secularists? Just curious because you're on record as (stridently) blaming Christianity for slavery. Can you have your cake and eat it on this one? Explain...use complete sentences....