There are a range of possible scenarios
Is the game points per supply centre or winner takes all ?
Is it messaging allowed or no messaging ?
Is it a low points game or a big points game, or some type of "special tournament'
game ?
Is entry password restricted ?

I don't like unnecesary Draws, however it's sometimes a "tyranny of the majority"
situation, a recent 4 way Draw I was in had an element of that,
I hung out to reduce the number of players in the Draw from 6 to 4, but chose to agree
with the other 3 players for a 4 way Draw, ( we all had roughly equal numbers of sc's,
but I was confident that myself and my ally could easily defeat the other two players, however when my ally supported the Draw I chose to go with the "majority view" )
as I could not fight a possible alliance of the other 3 players & succeed

I will support a Draw when players in the game are rubbed out for cheating,
or countries go into Civil Disorder early in the game and some players ( invariably me included ) get an advantage and others are unfairly disadvantaged.
Unfortunately I have had a couple of experiences when I've been in the "significantly disadvantaged" and others will not support the Draw--one of those is my "resigned / left game" in my stats, in the others I've copped a defeat and moved on

it's common for a player about to be wiped out to vote for a Draw, ( or leave the game )
but they are invariably ignored by the other players

Other times a Draw is the best result that an alliance formed to prevent another player from getting a solo win can achieve, and thats, in my opinion, an allowable tactic, the alliance cannot defeat the player going for a solo win, but they can deadlock the game and force the Draw & if it's ppsc then its a valid tactic ( in my opinion )

Use some care when choosing what type of game you enter

"Gun" players like Dwaugnar ( ranked Political Puppet in General Site Rankings,
but apparently ranked Evil Emperor Ming Super Warlord Status in Secret Offsite
Ranking System --- ho ho ho ) will only play high stakes, Anonymous Gunboat /Special
Tournament Games where entry is password restricted & players severely vetted &
rigorously scrutinised before being allowed to join

Old Harlots like m'self get over rated rankings in "General Site" ranking system
as novice Diplomats by sleazing about & plying my trade in low stakes unrestricted
entry games

Enjoy, there's something here for everyone to enjoy ( even the Meeptroll )

'they can deadlock the game and force the Draw & if it's ppsc then its a valid tactic ( in
my opinion )'

- if it's not ppsc, is that a valid tactic?

It's an even more valid strategy in wta, and is actually more likely to happen because there is no reward for surviving in wta.

Draws are more lilely in WTA and wins more likely in PPSC.

Yeah, that's what puzzles me. Most of the people I know here that prefer WTA games, state the reason for their preference as being because they feel that WTA games are more competitive.

I have just he opposite experience - to me it seems that once a couple of powers have been eliminated (in WTA), everybody just gets scared and suddenly snuffs the two smaller powers on the board, eager for a draw.

But c'est la vie.

everyone going for a draw makes getting a solo more difficult, thus 'more competitive'.

Orthaic,

Thank you for responding. Don't you feel, though, that in a more competitive game, people would all be trying to win, rather than all trying to force a draw?

Draws seem like a horribly pessimistic goal to take going into a game.

I only see people trying to draw when it is to stop someone else's solo. But then when a draw becomes more likely i guess people are more willing to accept one even when there is no solo threat.

Most of the folks I play against play for the win and, like in chess, are always looking for that opening. It is only when they see that opening won't happen *and* someone else is getting significantly ahead and becoming a threat that they shift modes. Of course, I generally play non-live full press WTA.

Should the ranking system be tweaked? Say, once a game is over points are given based on controlled centers. That way a player is rewarded for getting 12 centers in a draw. Just an idea...

Plus, there should be a handicap based on the competition faced plus the country drawn?

No, GR is already weighted based on skill level. Honestly, the 17 SC player who draws was *not* better than the 9 and 8 SC players who stopped his solo. Arguably, the smaller ones were the better cause they coordintated and denied him the win. Therefore why should he get more points or GR or whatever?

What he said.

Great minds think alike, dipplayer. Of course, that doesn't explain you and me. ;-)

Fools seldom differ Draug, of course i agree with you...

We must be The Three Amigos then.

@ Orathaic, yes, I had that thought after posting & reading it
it's a valid tactic, in my opinion, in any game where one player is going for a solo win for the other players to form an alliance to either defeat the player after the solo win, or force a Draw

How do you defeat a player after a solo? The games over. No mroe turns are run. Seems a bit diificult to me, MajorMidiot. :-)

don't be deliberately OBTUSE Dwaugnar
we know you have a talent for that sort of stupidity, but try thinking it through slowly..

" it's a valid tactic, in my opinion, in any game where one player IS GOING for a solo win.."
I did NOT say "....in any game where one player HAS ACHIEVED a solo win.."

the use of the verb "(is) going"

yes the phrase "player after the solo win" is Perhaps ambiguous,
but if you read it IN CONTEXT you cork brained clown,
"after" clearly means "trying to get"

nice troll

You said "defeat the player AFTER the solo win." Your words, not mine.

After doesn't mean "trying to get". It means "has already gotten." Is it my fault your English sucks MajorMasshole?

One must not underestimate the value of game dynamics. Let's say you're reducing the draw from five to four, by an even split of centers among the four remaining powers. The configuration before the five way draw may not have allowed you to see solo potential, but perhaps elimination of the fifth power provoked a conflict between two other powers competing for the fifth's centers, creating a new game dynamic. Dynamics is the most underestimated quality in Diplomacy as far as I know.

I'd rather play a great game and lose than go into the game worrying about my GR which is pretty meaningless..... then pray that someone includes me in the draw.
I've played games where some players do nothing and try nothing all game, when you ask them what there plan was they say 'to stop you'.
In saying that everybody has their own style and some people are much more cautious and some people like forming nice or strong alliances in games.
I play gunboat because I have a kill or be killed mentality, even then a lot of players go looking for the draw after 2 or 3 players have been eliminated.
I think my main reason for playing for a DRAW is actually not to stop a solo but because the game has got boring and you may have several CDs, some games just lose their way.

@ Dwaugnar
you clown, English is often most confusing to illiterates like yourself or persons for whomit is a "second language" becuse of the ways words can have alternate / several meanings depending on context
yes it was lazy of me to use the word after in that way, but you are deliberately
nitpicking, and I will NOT be lectured on grammatical usage by you

back to the Draw issue, what about a situation where a player could go for a solo win but that requires him or her to betray an ally, or two allies, and they have some reluctance to do that and they suggest a three way Draw ?
It's been a "pleasurable" game and they would rather have a 3 way Draw than go for the solo win-- cannot talk about a specific ongoing game, but it's hypothetically possible that I might be in that situation right now

@MajorMasshole - Not my fault if you never learned that words have meanings and misusing them is the fault of the speaker/writer, not the listener/reader.

Why don't you two mute each other and go on with life instead of acting like first graders?

Draug -- in other words, apparently MajorMitchell is admitting that Americans have a superior intellect, and are far more equipped to deal with nuanced decision making, such as "which form of word applies here", etc.

@bo - Cause yanking MajorMasshole's chain is fun!

@krellin - I guess it is a backhanded compliment to admit we american's are better at understanding b-a-a-a-d English than the English.

I dot think MM is English... Might wanna check that with him.