@ Octa - I'm very sorry you hate my argument, but I wouldn't say it's untrue, it's my experience. Before, I entered my profession I was always angle to find one of "these" jobs, I've never been on the dole in my life. My father left school at 12 and voted labour all his life and was never on the dole either. My son worked in McDonald's until he got a proper job. My point is that a lot of people think they're "entitled"
At work, our domestic cleaner Tom, he plays in goal in a local polish league god bless him, works two cleaning jobs and so does his wife. I see loads of people who are about to have their benefits reviewed trying to claim they are depressed and threatening suicide if they don't continue to con the system, that's THE waste on our exchequer, not our Polish or Iranian immigrants, and asylum seekers need employment too, it's a technicality when they get "leave to stay" Nigee

Guess what? I couldn't find any because they are offered in bulk to employment agencies recruiting in Poland etc and locals never get a look in.

Also, the reason these jobs remain unpopular (and I readily admit they are unpopular) is because they pay so little and get have very harsh conditions. How do the bosses get away with this? Because they have a dirt cheap supply of foreign labour who don't know any better. What should happen is either these jobs should end in the UK or the conditions should improve. How you can argue that a wave of immigrants being forced to work in crap conditions and suffer the resulting membership of the underclass is a good thing I have no idea. This is one of the things that leads to riotingUnemployment is lower amongst immigrants than locals in the UK, that is because they are economic migrants as opposed to asylum seekers who are people running away from torture/war/famine ..... there is a difference.
More money is spent on asylum seekers because they have higher social needs and social costs. Economic migrants have come to work...... they cost less, they pay taxes, they do low-paid jobs, etc, etc, etc

Ooh, I re-posted you guys on my backside, soz :)

On the "pay so little" comment, we have a minimum wage thanks to Labour

If your complaining about "harsh" conditions, stop wearing Next, Ralph Lauren, DKNY, GAP, Converse, Banana Republic, Land's End, and Marks and Spencer's (scrub M&S, they're made in Merthyr Tydfil, I remember it well) as these all make use of sweat shop labour, the UK isn't India or China, get a job.

In the UK we just need to look at the Pakistani & Bangladeshi communities to realise the benefit of hard honest work for the later generations... I respectfully give you Asian Dub Foundation, New Way New Life:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jywa9oK3ytU

@Oct and Red,
Fair enough. The stats were, nevertheless, surprising. Like I said, I'll try to dig it up someplace.

Like ADF very much. However, can't access YouTube where I am, unfortunately.

@Oct,
Although...
"Not wishing to be rude to our American cousins, but comparing the violent crime rates of immigrant populations to native born Yanks is a bit like comparing their body hair to a troop of monkeys. They would have to be pretty damned unusual to come up worse."

If that's the case, one might wonder if the immigrants skewing the UK immigrant crime stats are the US expats...

By the way, the chorus on that tune doesn't say "dance in a gay Nigee bar" - it's bangladeshi for "new way, new life"

@ Timur - when you coming home!?

@Jasbrum,
"If your complaining about "harsh" conditions, stop wearing Next, Ralph Lauren, DKNY, GAP, Converse, Banana Republic, Land's End, and Marks and Spencer's (scrub M&S, they're made in Merthyr Tydfil, I remember it well) as these all make use of sweat shop labour, the UK isn't India or China, get a job."

Hey, the label on my Ralph Lauren suit says "Made in Canada". Have I been had?

Immigrants skewing the UK crime stats is like saying that people with a mental illness skew the stats for violent crime, tabloid... the way the police investigate and report crime skews it, people on bail for over two years, evening all...

@hecks - definitely counterfeit!
I feel slightly jealous about your apparel now :(

No, no, it's definitely Lauren. But I think Ralph is lying to me. Actually... let me check when I get home. It may actually say, "Assembled in Canada"...

"Hey, the label on my Ralph Lauren suit says "Made in Canada". Have I been had?", .....that must be a moostake.
I went into that cheap chav shop the other day 'Primani' and I'm sure I could see the tears of a little child labourer on the material of one of the dresses.....

Mustav been tears of laughter, I've seen your comedy video, excellent!

Disclaimer - I admit to having a Ralph Lauren t-shirt... got it from TKMax, staffed full of eastern european immigrants, I'm doubly undone :(

Ralph Lauren is overpriced crap anyhow. You are paying for a name and a logo but it ain't quality.

Not when you pur-chase it from TKMax ;)

@Draug,
Lest you worry, I did get a deal on the Lauren suit. But I have to say, my Tommy Hilfiger suit has aged better. The quality of the stitching on the Lauren suit isn't great. I forget who makes my third suit, but it's also excellent.

The Ralph Lauren suit doesn't fit anymore anyway. I lost 50 pounds in the last year. Anybody want a low-quality used Ralph Lauren suit in size 44S?

Hilfiger is better, although I'm still a fan of fitted (not bespoke as even I can't afford that) from Jos. A Banks.

Well, yeah. I mean, there's a really great 70-year-old Italian tailor downtown who will make you a custom tailored suit for a few grand, but I work for a non-profit, so I buy off-the-rack.

And congratulations to us. We appear to have successfully hijacked this thread.

I love a good hijacked thread (and a good hijacking movie).

"Coz' every girl's crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man" ZZ Top ;)

Oh shit, I've been complicit in the highjack

"Drive this thread directly to the nearest Men's Wearhouse and nobody will get hurt!"

ZZ Top - The kings of fashion advice...

When you get up in the morning and the light is hurt your head
The first thing you do when you get up out of bed
Is hit that street a-runnin' and try to meet the masses
And go get yourself some cheap sunglasses
Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah

Spied a little thing and I followed her all night
In a funky fine levis and her sweater's kind of tight
She had a west coast strut that was sweet as molases
But what really knocked me out was her cheap sunglasses
Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah

Now go out and get yourself some thick black frames
With the glass so dark thay won't even know your name
And the choice is up to you cause they come in two classes
Rhinestone shades and cheap sunglasses
Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah