##CALL GM Vote Count

##VOTE Vecna the PR hunter.

The best argument I can come up with against the lynch a lurker on D1 is that:

1. We've never been able to do it
2. If we were to magically get a sufficient number to do it, the vote would likely be close
3. If we were to magically get a sufficient number and the vote is close it would be pure luck to pick a lurker who is also scum to lynch
4. If we do get the votes, and a lurky scum target, the rest of the scum can just swing the vote (with the assumption the vote is close) onto someone else
5. After the lynching, the scum can simply fall back on the "I was opposed to lynching a lurker" defense of their voting to not lynch their teammate. You can't argue against that defense.

Chaqa: most of the people who dismissed your comment did so in part because of the belief that there's no way you'd be so foolish to post that you're VT on the first message if you weren't. To me that makes the strategy a perfect play.

You say that the first person to post is always accused of being scum, but how many times have they been lynched for it?

If yo uwant to vote for a lurker after Day 1, when we at least have some information about them, I will agree. I have stated my specific reasons why Day 1 lynching of a lurker is an absolute waste. Your hard-on to do this, knowing that is an increased probability that a lurker is a PR can only mean you are hunting PR.

@Vecna -- and for the record, as mafia, I ***never** lurk, because it's a fucking OBVIOUS STRATEGY. Dumbass....

@trip: pretty much always accused, at least. It's very common. Not sure about how often they're lynched. I think it's a low number, but it isn't all that likely that the same person to post first would be lynched with 16+ people in these games.

@Vecna/ob/whoever: By all means, vote for me. I don't really get bothered by day 1 votes anymore. It's just a fact of playing mafia for me,.

Krellin, you dont lurk as mafia - Plenty of others do. This has been proven time and time again. We dont want to lynch Krellin the lurker, we want to lynch captainmeme the lurker (who always lurks as mafia)

Stating that town PR's wont get lynched? No shit genious.

BUT THEY WILL GET NK'd.

Mafia know who is on their team. If they see a town lurking theyre quite likely to think it might be a PR.

HENCE WHY ITS A HORRIBLE STRATEGY for a town PR.

Stating that because I want to lynch a lurker im hunting for PR's is so laughably bad it all but confirms my idea that both you and Captainmeme might just be scumbuddies again.

we have a number of people slated to be modkilled right? ##CALLGM please include that info in the next vote count.

i would lynch lurker captainmeme. my top 3 choices right now for a D1 lynch are xorxes goldfinger and captainmeme.

##vote captainmeme

Lets get this show started

All the people that are hesitating because they dont think itll work?

JUST MAKE IT WORK AND VOTE.

This cowardly strategy has been around long enough. Its time to make mafia games more fun again by punishing it. Noone should be above being questioned by hiding.

Anyone that is too scared to give us enough post history to question them about should be killed off

I'm not a fan of lynching lurkers, personally. I prefer information lynches.

well i don't feel comfortable with a D1 lynch on any of the serious D1 talkers. I'm down for ##VOTE captainmeme, lurking absolutely does have to be punished more than we typically punish it. take it from someone who loves to lurk as scum.

The notion that lynching captainmeme now would give no information is flawed.

Tell me Chaqa, which person right now will give us that treasure of information? Lay out for me which person is going to make us unravel the mystery? People are still taking, people are still voting, we can still use the information of how the wagon forms, what counter-wagon forms, who dont want to join in etc etc. Its no different from most other D1 wagons.

Thanks for proving my point about the scum being able to simply state they don't like lynching lurkers, Chaqa. It's an unimpeachable defense.

@Chaqa - why isn't scum hunting a fact of playing mafia for you? Do you ever do it?

The fact that this captainmeme wagon isnt gathering a lot of easy steam is quite telling.

Mafia should love to vote on such an easy wagon. Why wouldnt they want to kill off an easy towny on day1. Maybe he's even a PR since he's hiding eh?

The only reason they would stay away from this is if hes indeed scum.

People have been suggesting a captainlurker lynch for quite a while now, but theres no traction yet - WHILE this would be the easiest defendable vote for a scum.

All aboard this train.

@Vecna: krellin, brainbomb, yourself, OB, myself, a number of people, really.

@ OB: It's day 1. If you don't know my views on day 1 after 15+ games, you're obtuse.

Chaqa "It's day 1. If you don't know my views on day 1 after 15+ games, you're obtuse."

That may be, but reedeer1 and teacon and trip and moscofleet may not know them. Why not just go ahead and make them part of the record?

My thoughts so far...

Of course, I need to address the wagon on me. I'm not 100% sure what to think of it. I was certainly expecting something of this manner to happen, but I wasn't expecting it from WD - rather from Ghug or someone similar who has threatened to get me lynched for lurking for over a year now. Something very interesting to me is that now that Ghug has the opportunity to do so, he's not particularly committed at all. He's voted for me, but his post about it made him sound like he wasn't planning to stay on the vote.

Ghug - You've been wanting to lynch me over this for the past 10 mafia games. Why, when there's finally some degree of support for it, are you not really pushing it at all?

Same with Goldfinger. His early post specifically said that if I lurked he would lynch me, but he took forever to jump on the vote and when he eventually did he immediately followed it with a post saying 'we should lynch one of the five who were first to vote' or something like that - indicating that he's not committed to it either.

Goldie - Same question goes to you. You said early you would absolutely lynch me if I stayed silent. Why are you not trying to do so? Your vote is not being pushed at all.

I'm not certain what to think of Warden's attack. I think he's probably town - he's seen enough of the earlier games to know that trying to policy lynch me is not going to work and is just going to get me to come out of my shell earlier, which is not something I think the mafia would want me to do. His attack, though, feels like it was planned out before the game began, after he saw what my lurking did last game. His attack on me specifically instead of other established lurkers seems to indicate this.

Warden - Is this train designed to stop me lurking this game, or to lynch me regardless to stop me considering lurking in the future? Was it something you came up with before this game began? Finally, are you committed to lynching a lurker on D1, as in you will not vote for a non-lurker?

Jamiet's vote was at a weird time. He just had a spat of outrage over Yoyo's post, voted Yoyo, then suddenly decided that WD's argument that I was the more important lurker to lynch made a lot of sense and switched. I'm interested as to why WD's post was so convincing that it convinced him to switch from the person he had just been raging at for lurking - the reason 'to make mafia history' does not seem very good considering he also gave that reason for lynching Yoyo.

Jamiet - Can you answer why this? Why did you find WD's post so convincing? And why specifically that post, and none of the ones before?

@OB: good point. I don't like Day 1 because there is no information. Everything is hyped up and over exaggerated, new players are in the mix, and sometimes new roles. I prefer mid to late game vote/NK/theory analysis, not digging into what people say and every little sentence, and day 1 is literally information-less for this kind of game style. So, I usually lay low and try to ride things out until Night 2/Day 3 or so when I can start making some conclusions based on EVIDENCE, not conjecture.

tl;dr Need evidence to make valid conclusions

Vecna - There are 6 (maybe 7?) votes on me right now and we are nowhere near EoD. I'm not sure why you think there's no traction on this train, it's well ahead of anyone else.

Also, I'm kinda hurt that you posted this:

"Yes austria, key lepanto is an -amazing- strategy that is always in your favor. Lets do it."

I thought we had something special :'(

captainmeme, after this huge lurk, your big post is purely a reaction to your wagon without giving a single thought about anything else in the game? that reeks of scumminess.

Yep, it is, y2k. Mainly because I want those questions answered before I continue. I have some thoughts on some other things but you can hardly blame me for focusing on the only really meaningful thing that's been happening today.

@Chaqa "I don't like Day 1 because there is no information. Everything is hyped up and over exaggerated, new players are in the mix, and sometimes new roles."

By that logic, wouldn't D1 VT (or "concerned citizen") claims also be hyped up and over-exaggerated?

captainmeme, your wagon is the most recent meaningful thing to happen, but I reject the notion that it's the only meaningful thing to happen. maybe to you it is since you're lurking and haven't invested yourself in anything but the votes on you, and that's worthy of a lynch.

Certainly. I didn't say I wasn't involved in that behavior. I've never been good at the post analysis and reading into of each line/word of a post part of the game.

Eh. Day 1 is never particularly meaningful early. There have been some interesting interactions, but until a wagon picks up some steam most votes (especially early in the phase) are not meaningful unless they are being pressed extremely hard in an attempt to form a true wagon, the biggest example of which is WD's push on me. The bandwagoning on my wagon is by far the most interesting and meaningful thing to happen today - if you think otherwise point out the other stuff.