@Balki "I'd like Sayid to scan Y2K"
Its super dangerous to call for the investigator to scan particular people. Since it gives the mafia an idea of someone who they might kill to remove any information we got from a scan.

Finally, the investigator should aim to scan people who they think are unlikely to be night killed, or people they think are likely to be mafia. That way the information is likely to be preserved until into later in the game and less scans have been wasted on the dead.

balki just doesn't want cop to scan scum :)

@HR: You're misinterpreting my words. I said he's made "some substantial contributions", and by that I simply mean that he has made some large posts; I did not say that he has been a "major contributor" and this is an exaggeration. I agree with you that uclabb hasn't offered much actual 'substance' but he has made some posts that OB should have been able to make a read on. Instead OB offered us simply a "-" for his read on uclabb. This isn't appropriate. I'm particularly thinking of the way uclabb came in and shut down the discussion on damian/DO, telling us to move on.

wj, I'm really disappointed in you. When we were mafia together, you put on a big show of being a bit self-important and attacking those who attacked you, but I thought it was just a big show, meant to ruffle feathers, and you'd drop it when you were town. Instead, you've just doubled down on it, leading me to the conclusion that you were actually holding back to avoid suspicion before. Try to separate yourself from your reads and realize that everything you're saying is just confirmation bias stemming from you thinking anyone who says anything about you must be scum.

You're gonna see this as me protecting OB and double down on your ghug/OB position, but frankly I don't care, because that position is stupid. OB is odd on his own, and I'll give him more of a read when I get back from class, but most of what you've said about him is just baseless.

I'd really appreciate those who are scum reading yoyo to vote for him - nothing is final until day officially ends, but I 'd like to see how many would support a yoyo lynch.

give me a damn vote count (##CALLGM !!!!!) and i'll consider potentially moving to OB or yoyo given who is voting who.

Demonoverlord was quick to jump on my early attack on Wjessop.
And quick to jump on the attack on Balki.

But has produced little of substance otherwise. I'm also included to think we might learn something from lynching someone so quick to jump on others acquisitions.
##Vote DemonOverlord

Other things:

@Yoyo
Whilst it was good that you went through MX to prove DL wrong in solid detail, could you not have used the time you obviously spent doing that to contribute some more actual reads? You pointed out your P5 scumreads, but as others have said, you've not really built on them at all. I didn't take them as strong reads at the time as you just spat them out with little-to-no explanation, and I'm surprised you've stuck by them still without questioning them further. I remember in MX, when you scumread me, you were pressuring me pretty much constantly at every opportunity you got. Why aren't you doing that here?

@DL
What do you think about Yoyo proving you wrong about going back over his previous games? How much detail did you really read those games in? As I incorrectly townread you last game, I'm putting a lot more scrutiny into you this game, and I don't think your play is all that different to last game - lots of floating about on the edge and following other peoples thoughts (like the Yoyo being more anti-lurker thing). Not a lot of original thought.

@Captainmeme
You said your net would be fine this game; where are you?

@OB
I like how you accused wjessop of being defensive, then spent a page defending yourself in a fairly similar way, if somewhat less aggressively. I agree that some of your "reads" are pretty weak here, so here's some questions for you to answer:

A) Why are you pleased ND is being less 'verbose', and what do you think of ND as a result of it and the rest of his play (I personally have noted that almost no one has given any read on ND, and I'm a little curious about that)

B) Why do you think captainmeme's contributions have been townie?

C) People are already questioning your lack of a uclabb read, but I'm more curious about the lack of a guak read. guak has contributed more in this D1 than in the last 3-4 guak D1's combined. Why haven't you picked something up from that?

D) Why does damian 'deserve to win' if he's scum, when the next (and only other) thing you point out is that the tunnelling he's doing is either narrowminded or scumlike.


@Damian
You repeatedly say that Espi pointing out that TrPrado isn't in this game is a towntell. Why do you really think this? That's the exact sort of cheap townie thing a mafia can do where they don't have to add anything original, but can do something they know someone else is going to point out sooner or later anyway. I completely disagree that it makes him townie, and given his lack of anything else since, how strongly do you really hold on to that?

@Everyone

I suspect we're looking far too hard for mafia co-ordination due to the encryptor. Given that we've clearly been looking for that since the getgo; any smart mafia would have been minimising the use of the day chat to avoid exactly that. Mafia don't usually co-ordinate strongly on d1 because they don't want to get called out as a team - so why do you think they'd suddenly co-ordinate far more in a game where we're looking out for it with far more scrutiny than normal? I think it's a wild goose chase, and something we should only be looking at later on in the game; particularly close to EoD's.

@wjessop

I don't think uclabb's contributions are read-worthy is my point. I agree, he's made some posts; but in my eyes they're just active-lurking filler which is not alignment-indicative. I'm far more curious about the absence of a guak read when guak has indeed made some proper scumhunting contributions, and I'm a little surprised you let that one slide.

@HR: That's true, and fair. I guess I focussed more on uclabb than guak because of the recurring joke that guak is a phantom. You're right that guak shouldn't be allowed to bypass scrutiny because of this cliche attached to him, and I'll be mindful to avoid doing so in the future.

M13 Day 1 Unofficial Count
--------------------------------------------
Balki Bartokomous (3): y2kjbk, guak, DemonOverlord
captainmeme (1): SaladinSmith
DemonOverlord (2): Balki, damian
Deathllama (1): Yoyo
wjessop (1): Toemato
Yoyoyozo (1): captainmeme
Bo_sox (1): Ghug
damian (2): ND, Bo_sox
OB (2): Deathllama, wjessop
Espi (1): uclabb
Y2k (1): OB
Salidan (1): Hellenic Riot


No vote (2): Maniac, Espi

Currently NO ONE Is set to be lynched.


Those (2) who have not yet voted must vote before end of phase or be mod killed or replaced.

@ghug: "stemming from you thinking anyone who says anything about you must be scum."

This is a fallacy.

I'm pretty sure ND gave me a slight scum read earlier, and Toemato and SS voted for me too -- I didn't behave as you say towards any of them. And I have not behaved in the way you describe towards OB, DO, or damian -- it is simply their manner. In fact, I've been quite flexible with damian.

Don't try to put me in to the pre-fabricated box that's convenient for lynching wjessop.

@HR - I admit that I was wrong in saying that Yoyo had never been anti-lurker, but his response is a bit odd (citing an example from M12, where he was a power role, but not reading M11 because he was a power role) and I explicitly said I had only reread M11 and M12.

maniac made me believe he was voting for yoyo? did he not vote?

##CALL GM

Please can you explain what order you're using to prioritise the list of votes?
(as it's not ordered by number of votes)


@damian, you keep posting unofficial vote counts, do you know the answer to this?

@HR
I've mostly been arguing this because for quite some time he was one of the more focused on lurkers. Despite others having made no real contribution. It isn't a strongly held belief more a slight town lean. I acknowledge that it could be a ploy to appear town. And I think I asked Balki if that's what he thought it was somewhere up thread.

Also I'm really not sure how I'm being accused of tunnelling.

I'm inclined to agree about looking too hard for mafia coordination might be a wildgoose case. We've had the idea of bussing come up a lot for a day 1 thread. But I haven't read many day 1 threads so maybe that isn't unusual.

@wjessop. I have no idea how tie breaking is done. Just figured since it doesn't take long I'd update the vote numbers so we have an idea what is going on. Also I forgot to update the who is getting lynched thing. Balki is in the lead for votes and will be lynched.

Finally, wow we are really spread out on who we are voting for.

if mafia coordinate with day chat, it's going to be way more subtle and misleading than any attempt they would otherwise make if they had no private day chat. they can explicitly coordinate while discussing how to actively make it look like they aren't coordinating.

@damian: I think you misunderstood my question.

I'm not asking about tie breaks. A tie break = no lynch.

I'm asking what order the votes are listed in -- i.e., as it's not orders by number of votes or alphabetically.

Oh, wait. Found this in the opening post " In the event of a tie during a lynch vote, no one shall be lynched."

If you mean the order of the names. Its mostly random. I'll often add people into the list based on convenience. Thus if OB were to vote for Maniac right now I'd add Manic in where Y2K is. I'm not sure how the GM does it.

I'm surprised the vote on OB isn't getting more traction.

Are scum trying to encourage voters the other way?

If I do unofficial counts in the future, I'll try and remember to order it based on number of votes. If people would find that helpful

I always ordered them by the age of the vote (oldest votes highest, or furthest to the left for multiple votes of the same person). It was easiest to add to; and also good for seeing who was staying consistent in their vote and who was hopping around all over the place.

##VOTE Yoyo

DL wasn't proven wrong. He said he checked day one. I'm pretty sure the only quote from day one is the one he found. I also think his defense is ridiculous. It continues to come without any actual contribution, and all it says is that he's urged people not to lurk in the past, which everyone has done.

@wj, I pretty clearly said I thought you were town. Stop claiming I'm trying to get you lynched, because I'm clearly not. As town or scum, I lead shit. I don't manipulate others into doing it for me. I don't want you lynched.

In the convention center on my phone now. I'll respond to questions in a little bit when I can connect to the Wi-Fi here.

For now, the ND verbosity statement was sarcasm. He said he wanted short to the point posts in the pre game thread, but has continued making longer posts.

I didn't have reads/notes on uclabb or guak because nothing seemed to stand out for them to me. I'll go back and give them a relook.

@ghug: I haven't once said you're trying to actively get me lynched -- but putting me in that prefabricated box is simply inaccurate.

I'm gonna go find OB at the convention center.

@Maniac,

My thoughts on Yoyo:

In the first 24 hours or so of Day 1, he came across as the usual Yoyo to me. Confident, one-liners, unhelpful, uncaring about what others think. I was surprised by the significant amount of heat he received, and I've been viewing the early heat on Yoyo with some skepticism.

But when Yoyo came back with his defense, citing quotes from earlier games, that surprised me, and went against my Town Yoyo profile. I'm not used to Yoyo playing so defensively on Day 1. Yoyo, to me, is like the Honey Badger. Honey Badger don't care.

That said, I don't want to lynch Yoyo today. My uber confidence profile of him may be corrupted by the fact that he had a PR last game. I also generally think he has a lot to contribute as the game moves along. I think I'll have a better read on him from his behavior later in the game, if I should be around to see it.

balki is making me want to vote yoyo