" [re: yj] all his "suspicions" will be useless information."

Yes, you'd like to convince them of that, wouldn't you? My logic is clad in iron, and it will be reinforced by the hard stone of the cold cold earth.

Well, hopefully I've been convincing that while I'm willing to self-sacrifice, I also know its the wrong choice while voting thucy is an option. There's still plenty of time for people to realize that. By the time the final votes are due most everybody who is currently voting for me will be rather sure I'm exactly what I claim I am.

I'm going to sleep on it. We'll see what transpires in that period. At the current time, my vote will be for one of: Thucy, Chaqa, Yellowjacket.

But Thucy has certainly made himself a favorite to be that vote with his recent comments. Especially his response to people for voting for Yellowjacket. That was incredibly odd.

If I am ultimately lynched for being outspoken about being anti-lynch, so be it. It would be fitting that the innocent I failed to save was myself.

You're ultimately going to be lynched for being shady as fuck, thucy.

If you could please go over what it is I said or did that is shady, that would be cool.

I am not kidding when I say I do not understand your "logic" against me. Could you go over it again, please?

Sure, I can recap for your firing squad:

You said that the doctor should reveal himself if threatened, implying that the community should then spare his life. This is terribly logic, because it's effectively a "get out of jail free" card for 4 mafiosos and the serial killer. the odds it would actually be the doctor who was targetted are only 1 in 6. This move is obviously pro-mafia, and frankly, I don't think you're dumb enough to suggest it.

Add to that the strange leap to your defense shown by abge, y2k, and joker, who also happened to be in the same voting block early on. All this while nobody seemed to care whether chaqa got lynched or not. Not indicative by itself, but patterns are important.

Finally, just your response to me in general since then. You KNOW I'm not a baddy. When I proposed a trade off, your life for mine, you should have by now offered to kill yourself if only they would SPARE yellowjacket, since you know that I'm not a bad guy, and you'd rather see only one of us die than both of us. It should be clear to you by now that you are going to die in turn 1 or turn 2 regardless of what happens, You could be doing so because you are doc/vig/cop, but then why the chorus of support even amongst those who supposedly disagree with you on policy?


Clearly fowl as a duck, sir.

I don't know you're not a bad guy. I don't know that about anyone but myself, so let's get that clear out of the gate.

Second, yeah I just don't get the doctor thing. What's wrong with what I said? If we are about the lynch the doctor, shouldn't he stand up for himself and say who he is? Better he have another turn to live and do a save, and try to backtrack and throw the mafia off the scent or something, than for us to lynch him.

I don't see what's so terrible about that logic. Maybe I'm just not as clever as you think I am?

Anyway to the readers, before I go to bed: I will be pretty busy tomorrow so I may not have much time to be here. I maintain my stance of no-lynch for the time being, though I do wonder what is really driving YJ's thirst for my blood, since I really don't understand the doctor thing. Is that seriously lynch-worthy? I don't even see an error in it.

I will check in around 4pm CDT to see what the vote count is, and if I am about to be lynched, to say my final piece, but I think that's all I'll have time for.

^^ Still playing dumb? Most of you know thucy is sharper than this.

Even if he IS the doctor, and the villagers back off and don't kill him, the mafia now knows that this person is either the doctor or the serial killer. Since doc can't protect himself every turn, the mafia would be fools to not kill him at their convenience. And even if they don't, then what happens next time somebody gets picked? Now THAT person is going to claim to be the doctor, and we're in the same boat, because we don't know which one is lying.

I think living in the UK is a big disadvantage in this game... You guys always post 7 pages worth of posts between midnight and early morning that I have to catch up on before I leave, leaving me no time to post :(

Anyhow, from what I've gathered so far there are three main possibilities - YellowJacket, Chaqa, and No Lynch. YellowJacket I am very confused about - asking people to vote you out is a very strange tactic. I'm not sure what to thinnk there.

However, Chaqa was initially a completely random pick from me (hence why I said I would be willing to change my mind). The fact that quite a few people jumped on the lynch Chaqa train after I suggested it is worrying, as that may be what the Mafia would do - wait for someone to suggest an innocent person and then bandwagon on. At the same time, a lot of people jumped onto the 2ndWhiteLine train immediately afterwards, which may be an attempt by the mafia to switch attention away from Chaqa if he is one of their members.

Honestly, there are so many possibilities I don't know what to think at the moment, especially considering it's fairly early in the morning. I'm keeping my vote the same for now. I might still change it once I have had some more time to think about it.

How long is there left on the phase?

reading up on about the last 9 pages, few points I want to make:

First, the cop shouldn't out until he has a couple of guilty reports.
Second, while he doesn't have to out, he can soft his role. Act friendly to people he knows is innocent, and suggest lynches on those he knows is guilty. Once the cop is dead, we can then reread his posts to see what they infer.

Cop, don't be too blatant about it, we don't want mafia finding out your role.

Second, a couple of people have asked the doc to save them tonight. Asking for the doc to cover you in no way guarantees that you are town. Doc should save himself tonight, unless either the vig or the cop are stupid enough to claim.

Third, I don't really like how quickly the BW on 2ndWhiteLine happened. If yellowjacket (his replacemetn) turns out to be town, I think cop should seriously consider investigating either Abge or PJman about the BW.

Fourth, Yellowjacket I disagree with you're those who defend Thucy must be maf partners with him. For one, j3ker and Thucy are not mafia partners (same goes with Krellin and Chaqa). Fighting draws attention to yourself (and you opponent) and so two mafia partners will almost never publically argue, as it gives a strong possibility that one of them will be lynched.

The mafia may choose to lynch one of their own to seem towny, but they're not going to argue over simple mechanics, as it creates a chance that one of them will slip and we have an easy target.

Fifth,
##Chaqa, of the possible people being lynched, he makes the most sense.

Neither Thucy or YJ should be lynched at this time. j3ker has it right, we shouldn't use our mislynch on someone who is talking too much.

"Now THAT person is going to claim to be the doctor, and we're in the same boat, because we don't know which one is lying."
Simple solution, if two people are claiming doctor, we lynch between them.

Firstly, just to agree with the captain, UK time zone is going to suck! However not a good reason for lynching any of us ;-)

I had my vote up for 2WL purely because he was silent, I believe the game is designed to be played and we needed vocal people so it seemed pointless to try and keep him alive and we may have been able to gain some information from it. Therefore my vote doesn't automatically roll over to YJ as I don't have the same logic to support it.

I actually find abge the most intriguing so far. He has been swift to swap votes when required, not as vocal as some of the front runners, but always there on the fringe and observing. However I do agree with the policy that a lynch vote is worth it on the first day in order to gain whatever information is available to us and a vote for Abge is going to be a waste (unless I can persuade others to come with me).

I agree with Fasces' argument above regarding YJ, Thucy and Krellin. Rather than reiterate that, simply put I'm changing vote to

##Vote Chaqa

##vote chaqa.

to be completely honest, i have to agree with wardendresden that i think abge is a mafia member, but right now, of the choices availible, voting chaqa out makes the most sense.

also, i find it confusing as well that we get to know the role of who died. but i'll gladly play along. and also2, sorry for not posting too frequently. i'll change that in the future.

Let me make my case. If I were mafia, wouldn't there be at least some amount of people protecting me? No one is. I am being unambiguously voted out, which to me raises a huge red flag - I AM NOT MAFIA.

Well Chaqa, until Kasimax' vote, YJ had more votes on him then here were votes on you.

Why would mafia rush in to defend you when its possible that you wont be lynched. No need to draw attention.

unofficial vote count:

No-lynch (2): Thucydides, AlexNesta
Chaqa (7): captainmeme, VashtaNeurotic, krellin, TheHangedMan, Fasces349, pjmansfield99, kasimax
Yellowjacket (5): y2kjbk, WardenDresden, Chaqa, Yellowjacket, abgemacht

Votes outstanding (4): TheMinisterOfWar, Seyvas, yebellz, TheJok3r

The thing is, there are no reasons being given for lynching me. The ones I've seen are "he seems suspicious" and "if we're wrong, it won't take a lot away"....

So apparently I'm just high profile enough to be suspicious, but not high profile enough to be indispensible?

I propose we either vote no lynch or vote abgemacht, as I don't think Yellowjacket is a mafia

If you swing enough votes to abge, I'd be willing to swap, but yes essentially I'm sticking with you for now Chaqa. (And for record your comments pretty much sum up my reasoning)

Whatever. I feel like Ned Stark. I'm gonna get my head cut off because I tried to do the right thing and got fucked by more manipulative people.

##VOTE abgemacht

again, my 2 cents:

Captain:
"I think living in the UK is a big disadvantage in this game... You guys always post 7 pages worth of posts between midnight and early morning that I have to catch up on before I leave, leaving me no time to post :("
Living in europe in general seems to be a disadvantage. It always takes me about45 minutes if not an hour to read up, and then I run out of time to post. And before I return to finally post, I have to read up several pages again and forget what I wanted to post last time based on what other posts ...

PJman:
"I actually find abge the most intriguing so far. He has been swift to swap votes when required, not as vocal as some of the front runners, but always there on the fringe and observing. However I do agree with the policy that a lynch vote is worth it on the first day in order to gain whatever information is available to us and a vote for Abge is going to be a waste (unless I can persuade others to come with me)."
I share your view on abge, but as mentionned earlier in this post, I forgot what posts exactly gave me this feeling.

Fact is, we can't know anything for sure in this entire game, except our own role, and if you are mafia or the cop you ll know the other mafias or the ones you investigates. So as regular town inhabitant, I follow my hunch - since no real evidence exists in this game - and ##Vote Abge

YJ
I do not understand at all how you volunteering to get lynched will help anyone.

If you are vanilla town, you volunteering to get executed weakens the rest of us townies

If you are the serial killer ... you volunteering mekes even less sense ... except if this is a double bluff - scream "kill me! kill me!" to get everyone to think you are innocent ... even mafia would probably not kill you during the night because they ll probably believe you will be lynched anytime soon anyway ...

And if you are mafia, getting yourself killed weakens your remaining mafia buddies

Just me chiming in. I will agree that abgemacht is quite suspicious, so if we do not lynch him, maybe the cop should investigate him. Also if someone claims to be the doctor and actually os, they Will end up role blocked

I just think out of all the players, he is one of the most suspicious.

Thucy and krellin have been outspoken, but fairly consistent in their movements, voting, and posts. While I have, admittedly, been a bit odd, the lack of anyone seeming to be upset by my possible lynching should prove that I'm not mafia.

However, abgemacht has been visible but not committed, and seems to be trying to influence things without overly exposing himself. Now, he may not be mafia, but he is my best guess at this point.

Right now we have two votes for abgemacht. Let's get some more.

unofficial vote count:

No-lynch (2): Thucydides, AlexNesta
Chaqa (7): captainmeme, VashtaNeurotic, krellin, TheHangedMan, Fasces349, pjmansfield99, kasimax
Yellowjacket (4): y2kjbk, WardenDresden, Yellowjacket, abgemacht
abgemacht (2): Chaqa, Seyvas

Votes outstanding (3): TheMinisterOfWar, yebellz, TheJok3r

I would ask Thucy, Alex, y2k, and others who have supported common causes to help me in not being lynched. I believe that in the end my innocence will win the day, but I need help to survive.