@brainbomb I wouldn't know. I would expect at bare minimum 2 mafia to be within the group of active players, including voting and discussion. But your question is meaningless as you well know, as any player who is not scum would know the answer, and any scum player would know the proper answer.

We have no way of reading anything about alignments into the absences of MoscowFleet, or DemonOverlord, or even Yoyoyozo at this point, but we do know with certainty that captainmeme is perfectly happy to lurk as scum or town for no other reason than that he can do so without hurting his chances at survival. Well, his strategy is harmful to the town regardless of his alignment, and thus he makes a perfect D1 lynch if he proves unwilling to change said strategy.

"
@Jamie: Yes, Jamie. Thank you.
WardenDresden Online (49 (B))
New 09:03 PM
+1
Seriously, I want everyone to take a look at last game's mafia QT. Look at what captainmeme posted there. He's using lurking, a mode of play that causes HARM TO THE TOWN, as his primary style because he can get away with it. Scum or not, he sets a bar that is unacceptable, and I'm not going to let it stand. Either he starts joining in, or he dies.
"


I have explained, in my response to Vash, that lurkign can have multiple motivations not all of which are scum-motivated.

Hunting for lurkers at this point in the game is RETARDED. It will give you zero information.

I have said that I hate basing votes soulely on voting patterns --- but when someone is a true lurker, the ONLY information you have about them is their voting pattern.

Therefore, lynching a lurker Day 1 give you ABSOLUTELY ZERO CHANCE OF OBTAINING USEFUL INFORMATION.



Enough with the fucking Day 1 lurker hunting!!

So when you consider that this single post is considered a substantial post, you can also be assured that he will at some point have to do something more than that to make it through the day without being penalized.

Shut up Jamie are you scum or what smh

Hey guys I'm trying to catch up but if I can not I'll likely be replaced

Or what.

I hope you are feeling better, DemonOverload.

Town needs to be looking at who's spamming, wasting our time with mundane stupid long ass, distracting bullshit.

@krellin So you say we should let captainmeme continue with providing ONLY his voting pattern as useful information, thus limiting what he is able to contribute to the town in every future day in both this game and future games, just because his flip won't cause us to gain even more information? By that logic, we should never kill lurkers because we will ALWAYS get more information by killing non-lurkers.

Sadly I purport it's after 1am so I'd better go to bed. See you all tomorrow.

Hey Demon

Preliminary polls were coming in, and crowds gathered in the Main Square to find out more news on the first round of voting. The square was filled with people, and they cheered as images of the main candidates flashed on the massive plasma screen erected to the side of Toad Tower. A rush of excitement pulsed through the crowd as Peach's face lit up on the screen. It was so exciting even the pollsters worried that they wouldn't be able to deliver the news properly! Then Mario's face beamed from the screens as the high percentage points appeared beneath him, and the crowd erupted into chants. "Mario Bros! Marios Bros! Mario Bros!".

Mafia XVIII Day 1
Official Vote Count 4.2:

y2kjbk (1): xorxes
Jamiet99uk (1): ghug
captainmeme (2): WardenDresden, Jamiet99uk
brainbomb (2): OB_GYN_Kenobi, Chaqa
Chaqa (2): Vecna, trip
Vecna (1): VashtaNeurotic
ND (2): DemonRHK, krellin
krellin (1): ND
Hellenic Riot (1): brainbomb
goldfinger0303 (1): y2kjbk

Unvoted (0).
Not voted (8): captainmeme, DemonOverlord, goldfinger0303, Hellenic Riot, MoscowFleet, reedeer1, teacon7, Yoyoyozo

Currently NODOBDY is set to be lynched!

You have just under 21 hours remaining until the end of Election Day 1!

No Warden, you have (intentionally!?!?!?) misunderstood me.

I said DAY 1 lurkers PROVIDE NO INFORMATION BECAUSE THEY HAVE DONE NOTHING, SAID NOTHING AND IF THEY FLIP WHAT DO YOU GAIN. It's common fucking sense.

I'm all for lurker hunting later in the game. But....you have either INTENTIONALLY not understood my post above, or you are just stupid.

Which is it? I"m leaning on your being INTENTIONALLY obtuse as I ******very clearly stated******* "

"Enough with the fucking Day 1 lurker hunting!! "


That implies I don't want DAY 1 lurker hunting. That doesn't mean NEVER.

Fuck....I"m almost ready to give you a scum notch for that pathetic bit of idiocy.

ND
Warden
Vecna?

Just people I'm curious about.

I am saying otherwise: INTENTIONAL LURKING does provide information. It proves that the person is purposefully playing in a way that causes net harm to the town, even if that harm is only a lack of information. Meme specifically has a history of lurking in ways that cause harm to the town. This is why I consider him a far greater lurking problem than others who have failed to post, and why I am not simply generally "lurking hunting"

And it's not only meme that we would look at for information based on lynching him, but on how others decide to react to the lack of information he presents. Examine the fact that you are willing to say that we should never kill a lurker D1, yet you complain that everyone tries to create "psychic" cases D1 that always fail. So which is worse? The "psychic" case you're trying to follow, or killing a commited lurker who has shown time and time again that he is willing to harm the town's chances at this game in the name of his strategy? Krellin scum notch +1.

Alright, brainbomb. You are the person who claims to have read all the previous Mafia games. You repeatedly bring it up that you have. So why the actual fuck are you saying that me being fairly quiet early on is out of character? I do this EVERY. SINGLE. GAME.

Your first game that you played, MXV, I came back with less than an hour to go in the phase and in danger of being modkilled and just repeatedly called guak & Vecna town and pulled the wagon off of Vecna. You have repeatedly complained about my calling guak town in that game since that time, so you definitely remember it. I have never been particularly active right from the start because I do not generally enter a game until I have some actual thoughts about it. I am pretty sure I have also said in past games that I find the early joke posts and unreasoned votes to be pointless. So for you to say that this is out of character of me is just an outright lie. Period.


Now, moving on. You complain about me dismissing your argument against OB and saying all you've done is used gambler's fallacy. This is not true. You first used gambler's fallacy before you made any sort of case against OB.

Quote - brainbomb, P5:
"Or OB_Gyn_Kenobi having been a Town PR 3 games in a Row and the odds of him being scum elevated; couple with an abysmal appeal to audience case on Chaqa. --OR-- is Chaqa actually that stupid.

I wanna find out if Ole Mangina is full of shit. "

"Town PR 3 games in a row and the odds of him being scum elevated".

This is Gambler's Fallacy. Pure and Simple. 100%. This is what I called you out on. And instead of admitting it and accepting it, and pointing me to the other points you later brought up, you have instead just doubled down and denied that you did it first. That is bullshit, and once again, it is a lie. Don't throw shit if you're the one who dropped it.

Regarding other people:

Yoyo - That post is just baiting people. There was zero point to it, and all it has done is distract debate away from legitimate lines of questioning and onto "is Yoyo's post substantial?". Something that was entirely predictable. Very poor form.

ND's case on krellin essentially reads to me as just a long-winded version of saying "vote krellin for acting like krellin". Not a fan of it at all right now. I thought his cases on Vecna last game were full of confirmation bias but this is even worse.

bb DID make a good point about OB changing from an actual scumread (Chaqa) to a "lynch the unhelpful person" (bb) very easily. I agree that this was very dodgy and once you take the gambler's fallacy out, it's worth looking into more. I do find it strange that bb and OB both have given some pisspoor initial reasons for voting each other early on, and they're *not* OMGUS's. Something to keep an eye on.

Vecna's play and carrying through of anger remains very dodgy and I dislike it a lot. I hope when you wake up and post tomorrow the carry-over emotions are taken out, because otherwise I will strongly consider voting for you. It looks like you're doing it to hide other things, and that's bad.

Woah HR: " I do find it strange that bb and OB both have given some pisspoor initial reasons for voting each other early on, and they're *not* OMGUS's. Something to keep an eye on."

BIG LIE

I have never voted OBGYN Kenobi this game. Complete false truth.

My voting history has in fact NEVER included OBGYN.

@GOLDI -- GODDAMNIT!!! Just went to your so-called vote tracker....and seriously? I haven't cast a single vote today, huh?

THIS is why the fucking vote tracker is considerd a bullshit SCUM move by some.

UPDATE the fucking app, or take it down.

I said you'd given reasons for voting him. I did not say you had voted him. Well done for ignoring an entire post calling you out on lying to once again jump to an incorrect conclusion, bb.

##vote brainbomb

You just lied again dude.

" I do find it strange that bb and OB both have given some pisspoor initial reasons for voting each other early on, and they're *not* OMGUS's. Something to keep an eye on."

I quoted you saying me and OB have voted each other. We have not? Again you are lying.

@WARDEN --- or should I call you Mr Scum??? --- at some point in the game a lurker will have actually cast a vote or two, and be forced to make a comment or two, more than the minimal, no-information posts of today.

Fine....you go ahead and lynch a fucing lurker today? Big fucking deal. What did you gain? ZERO, because you have no connections.

The entire idea of this game is to try to link people together. If you take a shot in the dark and kill a lurker but can't connect them to anyone, then you have minimal good.

Alternately, if you let a lurker live and they are scum, and at some point in the game later on they decide to try to start manipulating the vote, it will be obvious and then you can maybe differentiate a Scum lurker versus maybe a PR lurker, etc.


Anyway -- your idea is shit.

Warden --> Scum Notch +1

Scum lurking on Day 1 is complete and utter bullshit. And I'll bet you that you lynch a lurker and gain no information, and are just as likely to get a townie.

The implication in that statement is that OB and I both voted each other and we gave poor reasoning. When in fact only OB has ever voted for me. Are you not doubling back and claiming you spoke out of context or that sentence is just abhorrently written?

"Given some pisspoor initial reasons for voting each other"

Where did I say you'd actually voted each other? I said you'd given some initial reasons to do so. Which you have. So, suck my cock.

You can't write up a case against someone and then claim it isn't reasons to vote someone, sorry.

I have never seen such a reactionary defensive angry side of you.

@WD:
You said "I am saying otherwise: INTENTIONAL LURKING does provide information. It proves that the person is purposefully playing in a way that causes net harm to the town, even if that harm is only a lack of information."

How can you tell the difference between intentional and unintentional lurking? I'm guessing it has something to do with keeping themselves from being modkilled, or that they announce that they're going to lurk...

I meant to lurker huinting on Day 1 is complete and utter bullshit.

If I was angry, I'd be caps spamming. You've just ignored two major points where I've called you out for being entirely wrong, and are trying to cover it up by nitpicking word choice. Well done. I have nothing more to say to you until you

a) answer why you've outright lied about my play being different to past games
b) Admit you used gambler's fallacy first when it came to OB


@Warden
I see your reasons for voting Capt, and I can accept them. I personally find lynching lurkers to be a waste of time as you get the fewest reactions out of it (which is what D1 lynches are 99% about), but I can see the logic there. Do you have thoughts on anyone other than Capt, though?

@teacon --- sometime a person lurks because they are trying to protect their identity on Day 1 and don't want to get called out and killed by stupid idiocy.

A cop, for example, has no useful information on Day 1, and therefore may lurk

Therefore -- in effect -- Warden is actually doing as much PR hunting as he is lurker hunting.


THAT is why Warden earns a scum notch.

@Hellenic -- you can REALLY see the logic? lol But is it TOWN logic, or SCUM logic.

Lurkers are not ALWAYS scum. Lurkers on Day 1 *especially* may not be scum.

Warden's insistence on hunting lurkers Day 1 is total and complete bullshit. It is *very* anti-Town.

In fact....

##VOTE Warden, for trying to lynch potentially reasonably quiet lurking PRs.

a) I havent lied at all. In MXV you posted a massive and substantial series of drunken rants asking players in game questions. Your posting was far more noted in MXV and you used it as a way to breadcrumb being the lazy cop, so there it was at least befitting of excusable.

In MXVI you did lurk but you were still present to have a conversation when the gunshot went off and you asked Jamiet a series of questions and actually started to talk quite a lot. You wasted an awful lot of time that game also tunnelling me certain i was cult which turned out to be quite amusing because :"you" in fact ended up being cult in the end and on the losing team.

This game youve done nothing like that. You have nothing to contribute, and you dont seem to care about anything going on other than me pressuring you to contribute. You continue to say you dont care about Day 1 even though you also freely admit you die alot Day 1 or get night killed often Night 1. Are you mad that I want to talk to you?


b) Yea, my suspicions of you both started from going blind, with nothing else to work with. I am happy to admit that I will always think outside the box and check every possibility. in this case I thought maybe Page 1 it would be interesting to vote for you. I never imagined people would join that. I know you are a great player and I am geniunely scared of you being mafia.