Or we flip to no lynch, YJ. No reason for one of us to go down for no reason.

@YJ: Let the record show that I was the first person to put in a vote on 2WL. And also the first person to remove my vote from 2WL/You. Keep in mind that my vote for 2WL was purely due to inactivity and wanting to see who would go along with it and who would not. We'll gain this information for anyone we vote for really, but at the time, 2WL made the most sense due to him not having participated.

You on the other hand, I knew I needed to unvote right away. You expressed a willingness to want to play earlier when you realized you missed the signups. There is no plausible reason for me to want to lynch YOU specifically at this time. So, maybe I'm reading your posts incorrectly, but reading, "(against 2WL/now me before I even got here and started yakking)" seems to wrongly depict why you had votes. If I was modding the game, personally I'd think it would be fair to remove those votes. Your replacing 2WL is quite different than a replacement in a different circumstance where that player actually participated. 2WL never offered any opinions so there's no way any of our votes can be assumed to vote him for his character.

As for the accusation of, "defending" Thucy, it's not that I don't find him suspicious for our disagreements, I just think we have better options. Including people who have barely participated or Chaqa. Since we are required to vote, my vote will most likely go to Chaqa. I realize it's most likely his inexperience that is driving his reason to be voted, but I currently see Thucy as a more valuable asset to the game if he is town.

I've made my points for Thucy already. Those reasons are very straight to the point and clear. So I shouldn't need to clarify them again. But Thucy has made the claim that we will learn much more in the next coming days. I'm willing to give him that opportunity. But definitely don't think he's off my radar.

How about this;

The fact that Eden was so quick to replace 2WL rather than just letting him be dropped from the game indicates me that he is no vanilla townie.

Now, i don't know whether he is good or evil, but it seems to me that there is a least a pretty good suggestion that he has a role.

As for Chaqa, I don't know about him. I was going to defend him since he really was just espousing the anti-lynch position, but then didn't want to seem like we were on some kind of team, but now that he has accused me (and I'm not sure why - did he think it would make him look innocent? More likely just a ploy to save himself by getting me lynched instead), I feel comfortable saying that I don't see any reason to lynch Chaqa. Or YJ for that matter.

As to the pro-lynchers who came to my defense, I can't speak for them. Since I am a townie I can safely assume that they are probably not mafia, else they would have jumped at the chance to have a vocal townie lynched.

In my kind this clears those who defended me in partial bit of suspicion.

More than that though , I don't really know. I am retaining my no lynch vote.

And I will say this in my defense: if you kill me off, you will gain information, yes. The information will be that you made a huge mistake by lynching me.

Please do not force me to abandon my no lynch vote in an effort to save myself. Remember that we are all probably innocent.

If someone must be lynched though I again vote for a quiet poster , like the HangedMan or pjmansfield.

Not them in particular just those who have posted very little.

There are what , about six or seven of us posting a lot? I highly doubt all four mafia members and the serial killer are among these. Some are lurking.

Thucy, it's partly that according to krellin, being an anti-lyncher is "suspicious" and partly that it adds more drama.

Chaqa: I'd rather go down if it shows me as honest and they pretty much have to hit thucy next. I'd rather still just everybody vote for thucy now, since I don't see what exactly you've done that's so suspicious to garner 4 votes.

As joker said, my votes were at least earned "in absentia." I don't blame anybody for voting out an inactive player as the "path of least resistance."

I find it strange though, that you were willing to cast a blind lynch at me/2WL, who even inactive had done nothing suspicious, and you are willing to target chaqa, who hasn't done anything suspicious, but you are unwilling to target thucy, despite your supposed "suspicions," and some good logic I've pointed out.

Well, a little over 19 hours left, this is going to be interesting. We should probably talk about what the cop and doctor should do soon, as they are among us.

^^ that last paragraph was for joker, not chaqa.

Also, I need to comment on this. I just can not let this slide without being unnoticed...

"Also, keep in mind that if I'm wrong, no biggie, but if I'm right, it means you can be fairly sure I'm honest"

Being right is not a total indication of being honest. It can also be an indication of knowing something. Your point is valid that the mafia won't talk to each other until the night phase so a sacrifice can't be planned. I'm assuming this much is true in regards to them talking since it is a widely standard practice for them not being allowed to talk in day phase. However, lets keep in mind that everybody here is a diplomacy player and inside them there is a deceitful little bastard somewhere. If a mafia member decided to have a go at one of his own members to distance himself in the event of a lynch, I wouldn't rule it impossible for the members of the mafia to make a call for themselves to sacrifice. I would assume that they would attempt to avoid it at all costs if they could, but voting for one of their own to blend in, I would never rule that out. And it should never be assumed that all people who voted for a scum are honest.

Note, won't you all, how thucy, unlike your old pal YJ, is NOT willing to step up to the altar of sacrifice. He knows its a bad trade for his team, and I know it's a good trade for my team.

##Vote thucy

Anyway, marking my place so I can get back to this in the morning.

Yeah I think the idea that being against lynching is suspicious is ridiculous.

We have all pointed fingers and suggested people are mafia - let's stay our hand this round and see who is murdered , who is saved , what the identity of the dead is , and what the clandestine policeman may have to say. We will also get to know what power the serial killer picked .

Bottom line; I still see not lynching today as a good option. I hope others will agree. But if people abandon the no lynch camp I will change my vote to one of the quiet people, if nothing else than as a means to provoke them to speak, and lastly if I am in danger of being lynched I will vote for the second highest voted candidate, since I know for myself that I am on the town's side , but know no such thing for any of you.

"it should never be assumed that all people who voted for a scum are honest."

true, but scum would only vote for scum on turn 1 if the outcome was unavoidable (the target would be safe or dead regardless). This vote is too close to know for sure, and isn't even in yet. I expect more changes.

@YJ you are right I will not volunteer to be lyncjed. If you have been reading my reasoning, I am averse to accidentally lynching townies, especially on the first shot-in-the-dark turn. So no I will not volunteer to be lynched - it would hurt the town for no reason. I don't know why you would volunteer either - I have not voted to have you lyncjed nor will I except under the circumstance outlined in my above post

"I highly doubt all four mafia members and the serial killer are among these. Some are lurking."
This is true, but I still feel like we would gain more information by voting to lynch at least a somewhat vocative player. The more involved, the more potential debate, the better chance to catch a mafia member out. A less active player seems just as likely to me to be the doctor/vigilante keeping his head down as a mafia member, whereas the vocal townies are either mafia or vanilla. So it would be safer to vote for a player who contributes a lot. (Not to say that volume alone in either direction should be used as justification for a kill.) Just my feeling.

"I find it strange though, that you were willing to cast a blind lynch at me/2WL, who even inactive had done nothing suspicious, and you are willing to target chaqa, who hasn't done anything suspicious, but you are unwilling to target thucy, despite your supposed "suspicions," and some good logic I've pointed out."

I feel like I voiced my opinions for voting 2ndWhiteLine but that was before you joined. And I wouldn't doubt that you probably missed my reasoning. It's worth mentioning again I guess.

It's well noted that I am of the mindset that every day you lynch someone and take a shot at hitting a mafia member. Of everybody in the game, only 2WL had failed to make a post. There's no point to letting someone unwilling to contribute survive. And when you're of the mindset of taking a chance every day, there's no better choice than to eliminate someone who essentially isn't playing in the first place.

And I know you've seen my reasoning for not voting Thucy. That shouldn't need to be posted for a 3rd time. And as a result, I will not.

I'll be honest, while your contributing, YJ, the more you post, the more suspicious of you I become. You have made various comments that strike me as peculiar. If I had to make a vote today it would either be you or Chaqa.

Yellowjacket, can I get a commitment to switch to no lynch if it comes down to that vs. one of us being lynched?

I'm sorry, YJ, but I don't buy your story for a second. If you were truly innocent, then why on earth would you be sacrificing yourself for Chaqa? You're trading someone who is guaranteed to be innocent (allegedly you) with someone would *might* be innocent. It makes no sense.

The only way this spiel of yours works is if you're both mafia and you're trying to confuse the situation in a desperate attempt to save your partner in crime.

Sorry, but I'm pretty much convinced both you and Chaqa are mafia now.

As I've already invited you to do, joker. Kill me, by all means, and then when you see the result, kill thucy.

I am not mafia. I don't believe YJ is either, but I can't do anything about this.

##VOTE Yellowjacket

abgemacht, if this convinces you to change your mind, ok.

Thucy, I urge for your help in this vote to save someone who agrees with your game style.

@Chaqa

If you can convince the others to vote for YJ, I'll follow suite.

I don't have any convincing to do because I don't really believe he is mafia. But if it's me or him, I know how to choose.

Yellow, I hope you'll vote no lynch. If it comes down to it, I will as well, and save us both.

Wow, so much defense for each other. Just can not ignore. I mean, I guess it's easy to side with the person that's defending you but damn, this seems to be more than usual.

"Yellow, I hope you'll vote no lynch. If it comes down to it, I will as well, and save us both."

Look at how the two of you collaborate. YJ confuses everyone by trying to get people to kill him, the vote gets split between you and him and you both walk. You aren't fooling me.

@abge only because nobody is defending him but himself, and just look how quickly a little army of defenders arose around thucy.

Since I'm reasonably certain he's not mafia, it's more likely I'm sacrificing myself to save a cop/vig/doc/ than to save the damn serial killer.


@chaqa I can't commit to that, yet. I still think sufficient information would be gained if you, me, thucy, (or abge, y2k, joker) were targetted or guaranteed to be targetted next to make the sacrifice of you or me worth it.

If I'm right about you, your innocent blood buys us info. If I'm wrong about you, well that tells the world a hell of a lot about thucy, abge, y2k, and joker. I probably die for being an idiot, but that's also worth it :)

I can commit, tentatively, to voting for me before you.

You guys act like I'm some mastermind. Anyone who's played a press game with me can tell you I fucking suck at manipulation.

nobody is trying to fool you, nobody is trying to split the vote.

## VOTE yellowjacket.

Kill thucy next.

##VOTE yellowjacket, sorry.

I honestly don't know, but I can say that YJ's strange attack towards me combined with my logic that he is not vanilla makes him the most suspicious person to my mind.

I just didnt really follow his "logic" against me like at all, lol. Which then leaves the question - is he just trying to get me killed for some other reason?

If the mafia wants me dead, and I'm sure they do, a cleaner way to do it would be to get me lynched than it would be to murser me and confirm whatever I had been saying before my death.

So, chaqa, are you going to show us you aren't in cahoots with YJ and vote for him?