Forum
A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
Page 1233 of 1419
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Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
10 Feb 15 UTC
House Game in Cambridge, MA, US
Starting 1 pm on Sat 2/14.
PM me if interested.

Also looking to get regular weekly/monthly games going so contact me even if you can't make it this Saturday.
15 replies
Open
nancydroman03 (0 DX)
14 Feb 15 UTC
Buy Passport ,Visa,Driving License,id cards [email protected]
Buy Passport ,Visa,Driving License,id cards [email protected]
1 reply
Open
Hannibal76 (100 D(B))
13 Feb 15 UTC
vDiplomacy
I found it by accident and it was weird. It was like entering bizaro land where everything looks familiar but different. For example, people actually discuss diplomacy in the forums. Why do both these websites exist but have the same everything but are different I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON
28 replies
Open
dipplayer2004 (1110 D)
14 Feb 15 UTC
Kingsman: The Secret Service
Go. See. It.

4 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
14 Feb 15 UTC
New rules: On Rational Discussion
http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/04/ethnic-tension-and-meaningless-arguments/

Will anyone second?
3 replies
Open
ssorenn (0 DX)
13 Feb 15 UTC
WTA FP 25 Hour
whos interested?
1.ssorenn
2.chibli alex
17 replies
Open
nicolasdranny100 (0 DX)
14 Feb 15 UTC
(+1)
Buy Real /Novelty Passports,id cards,visas,drivers license
Purchase Real and Novelty Passports,id cards,visas,drivers license ,Permits for all countries ([email protected]) +237-673-971-112
3 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
13 Feb 15 UTC
Pure Gunboat
http://www.vdiplomacy.com/variants.php?variantID=11

The best idea or the worst idea? Sign up below to find out!
32 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
04 Feb 15 UTC
Singular They
http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/

So, you was once exclusively plural? Who knew?
Thoughts?
230 replies
Open
Zach0805 (100 D)
04 Feb 15 UTC
(+1)
ISIS
Burned Jordanian Pilot alive.
Thoughts on this Tragic Incident.
199 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
13 Feb 15 UTC
This week's Minsk agreement on the Ukrainian conflicts
Please post any thoughts you have here, will post my own soon.
9 replies
Open
dipplayer2004 (1110 D)
11 Feb 15 UTC
Atheist murders religious people.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/chapel-hill-shooting-three-young-muslims-gunned-down-in-north-carolina-at-their-family-home-10037734.html
126 replies
Open
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
27 Jan 15 UTC
(+2)
The Leagues 2015 Signup Thread
Back in November I did a sort of straw poll among you all, and the Leagues was the one with the most votes, so this is the one I shall be bringing back this winter. Signups will close on Sunday Feb 1st after the Super Bowl.

Info can be found here: http://tournaments.webdiplomacy.net/The-php-League
170 replies
Open
A_Tin_Can (2234 D)
12 Feb 15 UTC
They're remaking the Man From UNCLE
I feel like this might be relevant to your interests:

http://io9.com/first-trailer-for-guy-ritchies-man-from-uncle-is-stylis-1685309128
0 replies
Open
naked (4955 D)
12 Feb 15 UTC
How to get a random country ?
I have 6 games right now on this site, with France (3), Italy (2) and austria (1). Just stepped out of 2 other games simply because i got every time France. There was no preselection. It is simply getting boring.
29 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
12 Feb 15 UTC
The Key
The key lepanto, of course.

Why are people so belligerent toward a key lepanto? I am yet to find a player that is actually open and receptive to it. Speaking from Austria's perspective, do Italian players simply not have the willpower not to stab?
46 replies
Open
tvrocks (388 D)
12 Feb 15 UTC
Average iqs
I'm curious about what the average Web dipper iq is. Mine is over 9000, however, as I would be an outlier I will just go with my iq as being 135. Please post.
42 replies
Open
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
10 Feb 15 UTC
Have you delved too deep?
At what point have you reached a part of the internet when you begin to question your existence for seeing whatever page you're on? Where you see the page and just go "What?.....why?....how?"

http://www.reddit.com/r/TsundereSharks might have done it for me.
16 replies
Open
King Atom (100 D)
11 Feb 15 UTC
Jon Stewart Announces Abdication
Post messages of regret, and sympathies for those suffering this tragic loss of life.

Also, who can recall the funniest daily show quotes?
13 replies
Open
KingCyrus (511 D)
12 Feb 15 UTC
Please Help Me Explain
I am having a slight problem with an ally. Please help me explain a rule about supports.


If a unit is attacked, REGARDLESS if they have any sort of support hold, they may not perform any sort of support themselves.
8 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
11 Feb 15 UTC
Jeb Bush releases all emails as Governor...
Including SSN, medical information, and other personal data of thousands of citizens. Thoughts?
http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/10/8013531/jeb-bush-florida-email-dump-privacy
21 replies
Open
VashtaNeurotic (2394 D)
09 Feb 15 UTC
(+1)
THREAD FOR ADVERTISING REPLACEMENTS
Hopefully the title isn't too close to another this time, but it really would help site organization if we had a thread dedicated to advertising replacements on the forum. Let's see if this works.
9 replies
Open
Justin.tang92618 (19 DX)
12 Feb 15 UTC
Advertise any games here
Here you will post any games so that people can join.
3 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
11 Feb 15 UTC
Who's Got the Sexist Accents? Most of Us Here, That's Who (Apparently)
https://www.yahoo.com/travel/which-country-has-the-sexiest-accent-110641864972.html I like that just generic "British" and "American" accents are #1 and #2...because of course Brooklynites, Cajuns, Angelinos and Minnesotans (doncha know!) sound completely the same...as do *insert topical English counterparts. But hey, on the bright side, US and UK Webdippers...we've got the sexiest accents around (not you Canadian players, though...not even in the Top 10, eh?) :p
16 replies
Open
Byng6 (243 D)
11 Feb 15 UTC
Better Call
Hey everyone. I am trying to start a North American map game. Full disclosure three of the players do know each other (Byng6, Hydraheart & Timmler). We like playing together and do not necessarily align. There is nothing more fun than destroying my friends :) So if you do not have a problem with this join the below game:
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=155096#gamePanel
Password = saul
0 replies
Open
bbanks2504 (0 DX)
11 Feb 15 UTC
Join our game and make our dreams come true!
Hi everyone,
A small group of us want to get a World War game going. Join us (http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=155069)!
0 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
05 Feb 15 UTC
Vaccination Law
http://www.laboratoryequipment.com/news/2015/02/california-aims-limit-vaccine-exemptions

California is considering stricter vaccination requirements, but evidently they are also considering the continuation of a religious exemption, which renders this law useless..
154 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
11 Feb 15 UTC
(+1)
Excellent article: what is 'othering'
http://thebodyisnotanapology.com/magazine/im-not-your-token/
17 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (758 D)
02 Feb 15 UTC
(+1)
God: Utterly evil, capricious and monstrous
http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/feb/01/stephen-fry-god-evil-maniac-irish-tv

Discuss.
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dipplayer2004 (1110 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
Oh, I understand, TrPrado. I am not familiar enough with the aspect of the Quran you are referring to, so I can't address that, but I'm well aware the BofM is full of crap.
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
08 Feb 15 UTC
(+1)
@kas:

Yoink is 100% correct. People often take one verse without taking into consideration the rest of the Bible. This can occur with any book. If the whole is not taken into account, then the part is easily taken into context.

God called a people for His name. His ultimate goal since the fall of man was to redeem people back to that perfected state.

God then raised a group of people up (Jews) that would honor His name. Understand that no man, no matter how righteous, can honor God entirely because sin is in his nature. I won't go into detail on this because it's a book in itself.

From Genesis, God promises to His people that He will bless those that bless His people and curse those that will curse them. In Exodus, His people are slaves and God will now move His people out of bond age to the land that He promised them. He gave pharaoh the opportunity to let His people go. Pharaoh refused so God did what it took to get the Jews out of slavery.

God was giving the Jews land of their own to be a holy nation. The land He gave to them was the land of the Amalekites (among others). He was doing this because the sin of the Amalekites had reached its peak and God was not going to allow a wicked nation to possess the land. While they were on their way, the Amalekites came and attacked the Jews. As a result of this, God returned war on them. Recall the promise made--bless those who bless and curse those that curse. God brought retribution against a people that initiated war against God's chosen people.

Recall that the land was given to the Israelite nation because those who previously possessed it sinned to the point they were no longer permitted to live there. Throughout history, even when it was God's people sinning, God would remove them from the land.


Therefore, just as I told jamietuk, we cannot take a single verse at point value, we have to take it in context of the Bible as a whole. The Bible is such a deep and interwoven piece, that to not understand it as a complete work, we can misinterpret or misunderstand truth and come away with a flawed perspective.
arborinius (173 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
If god is all powerful, can they create an object that they cannot move?
Jeff Kuta (2066 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
(+1)
"Except that the Quran doesn't contain inaccuracies, be they historical or scientific."

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran

(Not vouching for the motives of the source at all, but there seems to be a pretty extensive list of errors.)
RowYerboat (107 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
(+1)
If God designed Adam to have free will but then smited him and all his offspring for eternity for not loving/following/obeying him enough, he is very emotionally needy indeed for a supposedly almighty being.
kasimax (243 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
@tru: i will repeat the verse again: "completely destroy the entire Amalekite nation--men, women, children, babies"

i would be fine with war (as a matter of fact, i wouldn't, but that's not the discussion at hand), but god is explicitly demanding a genocide here. i will ask you as well: do you think a genocide can ever be justified?
dipplayer2004 (1110 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
Kasi,

I think it's a relic of a Bronze Age religion in which it was perfectly normal for your deity to command you to go and smite your enemies. (The Amalekites had been traditional foes of the Hebrew people for centuries--they were supposed to be destroyed during the conquest under Joshua, but had not been.) I think its continuing presence in the Bible is a challenge that forces readers to think. There are many interesting commentaries on this episode, and people have drawn many interesting lessons from it, about sin or obedience, or justice, etc. But I also think it is fair to question this verse and what it tells us about both God and the Bible. If there was a man named Samuel, who was spiritual advisor to a king named Saul, I am willing to believe that his belief was that God would command this sort of policy. I can't imagine Jesus prescribing such a policy, though. I think that the understanding of the Deity evolved. I think we can see that evolution in the Bible. I think it shows the Jewish people wrestling with their understanding of Deity. And there is much we can learn as we study that evolution.

I even have a new interpretation, a modern liberal one: this passage illustrates the danger of religion/state entanglement. It shows how religion can be perverted for political ends. It actually is an illustration of the exact sort of danger we see today in ISIS. The Bible doesn't always have to be showing us The Way to Do Things. Perhaps sometimes it is also showing us The Way NOT to Do Things.
kasimax (243 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
@dipplayer: so you're saying that god did not command the genocide of the amalekites?
dipplayer2004 (1110 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
"If God designed Adam to have free will but then smited him and all his offspring for eternity for not loving/following/obeying him enough, he is very emotionally needy indeed for a supposedly almighty being."

Totally missing the point. God wants us to be free so that our embrace of His Love is genuine, truly from ourselves, and not coerced. (This is the problem with Calvinism--it negates our free will and says that all our turning to God is because of God's grace.) It was never about the smiting. A great poet said, "If you love someone, set them free. Free, free, set them free." Same idea.

BTW, Adam and Eve were not historical persons. There was not a historical event that was the Fall. It didn't happen on October 25, 4004 BC, or whenever. It is Mythology. It is describing the human condition, the sort of world we live in. "Adam" means "the human." Adam is Everyman.
dipplayer2004 (1110 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
I think that the prophet Samuel commanded it. Based on his understanding of God and God's relationship with Israel.
yoink1324 (100 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
@kasimax

I understand that this prescribed "genocide" is troubling. It is hard to reconcile that genocide would ever be a justifiable sentence because it calls for the annihilation of every person in a particular group. The thought of that many people dying is surely terrible. That said, the biblical example does not seem to be an act of "murder". It is portrayed as an act of "justice".

In Exodus 17, God gives the death sentence to the people of Amalek, saying they will be "completely blot out". The apparent crime is that the Amalekites attacked the wandering and nomadic nation of Israel as they went toward the Promised Land. The casualty rate of the battle is not mentioned.

Now, even our modern justice systems prescribe penalties for such behavior. I would assume that most nations would return fire if they were attacked, and I know that many legal systems prescribe the death penalty for convicted murderers. So, it seems that the perceived injustice is not simply a result of the returned attack, but the magnitude of the sentence. Why would God prescribe the total annihilation of these people?

Unfortunately, the answer is not explicitly stated, and I don't have a great answer for that. However, the biblical text presents it as a just punishment rather than a murder, per se.

I'm fairly content to leave it at that, but many others still show concern. At the root of the concern is usually the question, "how could God kill innocent children (or animals)?" According to the biblical text, no person, man, woman, child, infant, or even fetus, is innocent of their own accord. The only exception to this idea is Jesus, who is described as God incarnate. Therefore, the "innocent" part of this question needs to be removed. Moreover, Psalm 139 says that God knows our every thought before we even think them. Our every word before we speak them. Some suggest that this foreknowledge allows God to know our hearts before we commit our deeds. Putting this with the Amalekites, some suggest that God knew how they would behave. The attack was not a one time thing, but an indication of how they would continue to act. Therefore, rather than waiting for the initial crime to occur, God sentenced these people, including the children, according to his perfect knowledge, and the penalty was death. This paragraph is an interpretation of the Scripture, and therefore is not inspired, but it is a common interpretation that helps some reconcile the destruction of the Amalekites, the first-born sons of Egypt, and the people of the flood.
RowYerboat (107 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
Dipplayer, I think you're missing the point, that is, "Why in the world would God care at all?" In fact, assigning God human-like desires of any kind, or even consciousness, is a perfect illustration of how human-centered and ridiculous the whole idea is. It should be pretty obvious that God didn't create man in his image, but quite the reverse.
kasimax (243 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
@yoink: even if i accept your interpretation (which you earlier deemed unnecessary): that still doesn't explain the genocide. if he called for the murder of those babies and children because he knew they would become evil, how can there be a free will? if he knows what i will do next, that means i don't have a free will. if that were true, the fall of man in the garden of eden wasn't necessary, because god knew from the very start that adam and eve would eat the apple.
Jamiet99uk (758 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
@ Dipplayer: If you genuinely wanted someone to love you of their own volition, you wouldn't threaten to punish them for not loving you.

Unless you were a complete dick.
RowYerboat (107 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
^ "You're free to love me, or not love me, but if you don't...well let's just say that you should love me."
dipplayer2004 (1110 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
Jamie, the punishment is self-inflicted. We cut ourselves off from God, which is to cut ourselves off from Life, from Beauty, from Joy, and from Love. That's hell. We do it to ourselves. If we choose to reject God's offer, we are punishing ourselves.
yoink1324 (100 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
@kasi

A few points of clarification:

1. I did not say the Bible needed no interpretation. I just said it's meaning does not lie in interpretation alone. Many of its teachings about who God is and how we should relate to him are quite explicit. Unfortunately, the reasons that God chooses to do things a certain way are not usually explicit.

2. The only explanation I have for the genocide is that it was prescribed by God. You are welcome to challenge whether you think that is just, and I cannot give a perfect answer. It is sufficient for me to believe that God is just, and that my interpretation of his justice is likely limited. As a metaphor, should a figure in a painting ask the artist why he altered or eliminated another painted figure? No, the painted figure has limited understanding (in this case, none) of what the artist is doing. Similarly, I trust that God, who is portrayed as the Creator and Architect of all things, has a better sense of where things are going than any and all people for all time.

3. Foreknowledge does not necessarily eliminate free-will. If I see a two year old walking with an extended hand toward an open flame, I can know that the hand will enter the flame and get burned. However, whether or not I choose to intervene, they have the free-will to attempt to finish this act.
Jamiet99uk (758 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
@ dipplayer: Does God ever make threats against those who do not love him - or does he never do this?
dipplayer2004 (1110 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
It's not a threat. It's warning of the consequences. It's like a parent who tells their kid what will happen if they choose to do something. "You can choose to drop out of school and become a criminal, and I will still love you if you do, but you won't be able to live under my roof."
TrPrado (461 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
Um, no, Jeff. The geocentrism section is entirely false, and based on stipulation. "Some apologists try to explain away the Qur'anic description of the sun moving in an orbit as a reference to our sun orbiting the black hole at the center of the milky way galaxy every 225 million years" seems to ignore the fact that God did say there were things in the Quran the Arabs wouldn't understand.
"The Qur'an assumes a flat earth which has physical places into which the sun sets and rises from." Also false. The Quran describes the shape of the Earth accurately as being egg-shaped (as it is, the Earth is flatter at the poles).
(From a different article referenced in that one): "Muslims often blasphemy Islam by mistranslating or misinterpreting Qur'anic verses." The Arabic words have more than one meaning, so translating them based on meanings of that same word is not a mistranslation. Which pretty much actually rips apart half that article as a whole, which attributes many things to "the more common translation."
"There was no "separation" of the "joined" earth and heavens as this verse suggests." Not even as a singular mass? For shame, bad science indeed.
(For reference: "Hast thou not turned thy vision to thy Lord?- How He doth prolong the shadow! If He willed, He could make it stationary! then do We make the sun its guide; Then We draw it in towards Ourselves,- a contraction by easy stages.") "Shadows are produced when the sun's light is blocked by an obstacle. It is the Earth's rotation that causes these shadows to change size and location. However, by calling the sun the guide of shadows, this verse claims shadows are caused due to the sun's movement." I honestly don't see what the article's on about with this one. Is the sun's light not what projects the shadows? And the direct path of which (altered by Earth's rotation or not) still is as the verse says. "Further, this verse suggests that shadows can be made stationary i.e. the rotation of the earth can be stopped. This is not possible." Oh, to question omnipotence.
"The Qur'an has statements about the end of the world that are much as one would expect if the author believed the sun and moon to be of similar size and a similar distance from Earth." Or, perhaps, it was talking about an eclipse (it was), which (eclipses) are actually very well described in the Quran.
(In regards to where it in the Quran states that the sky guards the Earth) "Asteroids and meteorites have penetrated the atmosphere and hit the earth throughout the course of history. This includes the massive meteorite that hit near the Yucatán Peninsula 65 million years which killed off numerous species including most dinosaurs. There is no guardian, whatsoever, that prevents these types of events form [sic] happening." How sure are they that it meant protection from physical things. I mean, the atmosphere DOES protect from very harmful radiation.
("Your Guardian-Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority): He draweth the night as a veil o'er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession:") "Night is just the darkness of space as seen from the earth due its rotation." I'm still not reading an actual inaccuracy here.
"The Qur’an state that humans were created instantaneously from mud or clay. There is no indication that the author is aware of the evolution of human life over millions of years nor our common ancestry with apes and primates." Not even that mud/clay be the starting point for the single-celled beings from whence we came?
"The Qur'an states, incorrectly, that semen originates from a spot between the backbone and ribs. Today we know sperm comes from the testicles and semen from the pelvic region, which is not between the spine and ribs." In the male embryo, what will become the testicles is located between the backbone and ribs, so that's still not wrong.
("And of every thing We have created pairs: That ye may receive instruction." and "Glory to Allah, Who created in pairs all things that the earth produces, as well as their own (human) kind and (other) things of which they have no knowledge.") "Not every creature procreates or reproduces through male and female sexual relationship." The contemporary understanding of those verses is actually of matter and anti-matter.
"The author of the Qur'an repeats a common view of the 7th century that the earth was a fixed and un-moving object" Actually wrong. The Quran mentions the motion of the Earth. Both rotating around its axis and "moving like the clouds" (revolving).
"When a fresh water river flows into the sea or ocean, there is a transition region in between. This transition region is called an estuary where the fresh water remains temporarily separated from the salt water. However, this separation is not absolute (thus cannot be described as a "barrier"), is not permanent, and the different salinity levels between the two bodies of water eventually homogenize. The Qur'an however erroneously says that the seperation between the two types of water is absolute and permanent." On one side of the barrier, there is fresh. On the other, there is salt. This is also noticeable with seas (though they be different salt levels, not simply fresh and salt), not just rivers.
"Modern geology has discovered that large plates in the crust of the earth are responsible for the formation of mountains. Called Plate tectonic these massive plates meet and the pressure between them pushes up the crust forming mountains but also causing earthquakes and faults. the Qur'an propagates the idea that mountains are crucial in stabilizing the earth when, in fact, the earth would be much more stable and have less earthquakes if mountains did not exist." Actually false. Modern geologists have come to the agreement that mountains DO stabilize the Earth. They extend into the crust of the Earth (also mentioned in the Quran) and make earthquakes less severe.
"The Qur'an says rainwater is pure, though in some industrial areas rainwater can contain significant amounts of pollution and acidity. Called acid rain this type of rain causes harmful effects on plants, aquatic animals and buildings." So the article is saying what would be pure rainwater mixes with human creations that make it impure? They aren't too aware of what they're arguing.
"The Qur'an calls non-believers "deaf dumb and blind". However all the technology, medicine, and scientific advancements in the Muslim world are almost exclusively purchased from the non-Muslim countries. Computers, television, space travel, helicopters, media players, nuclear bombs, cameras, satellites, birth control pills, vaccinations, telephones, radios, light bulbs, microchips, games consoles, refrigerators, microwaves, plastic, aluminium, x-rays, antibiotics, heart-transplants, the internet etc., were all invented by non-Muslims." Because "deaf, dumb, and blind" can't at all be a metaphor, right? It can't meant religiously deaf, dumb, and blind, can it?
("If it be ye can pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, pass ye! not without authority shall ye be able to pass!") "The first space ships and travel beyond the atmosphere of earth occurred over 60 years ago. With current technology, humankind has already explored the end of the solar system. The Qur'an however, implies that going beyond the earth is forbidden." It's not saying it's forbidden, it's saying it happened with the authority of God.

For short, the article Jeff posted is full of its own scientific inaccuracies, or else misunderstandings and mistranslations. The Arabic has many meanings that, if gazed with modern science, are not actually the egregious errors the person who composed the article (which, again, is full of errors, both grammatical and scientific) seems to think they are.
kasimax (243 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
@yoink:

"2. The only explanation I have for the genocide is that it was prescribed by God."
if you were asked by god to commit a genocide, would you follow through? or a little bit lighter a question, if a christian would perform a genocide today and say god told him to, would you believe him?
"As a metaphor, should a figure in a painting ask the artist why he altered or eliminated another painted figure? No, the painted figure has limited understanding (in this case, none) of what the artist is doing."
apart from your analogy being flawed, it i also extremely cruel. do you really compare human lives with a painted figure?
"Similarly, I trust that God, who is portrayed as the Creator and Architect of all things, has a better sense of where things are going than any and all people for all time."
does this warrant a genocide? again i repeat, i would not, under any cicrumstances, say that a genocide is good or just, and i think many christians would agree on that point. i repeat my question to you, since i want a definite answer to this: do you think that a genocide can be justified? your reasoning at the moment implies exactly this, and that disgusts me.

"3. Foreknowledge does not necessarily eliminate free-will. If I see a two year old walking with an extended hand toward an open flame, I can know that the hand will enter the flame and get burned. However, whether or not I choose to intervene, they have the free-will to attempt to finish this act."

"the free will to attempt" is not free will.
X3n0n (216 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
(+1)
To tell the truth: After only scrolling through the list of supposedly scientific errors most of them had not much to do with the surah cited from the koran. I had a hard time to see any science in the said surah as well.

The list certainly is crap (that may or not have been written by dumb midwestern evangelicals to discredit a book cause their has been discredited many times over by science) done by people who themselves have probably only heard that there is a thing called science somewhere in this world.

My favourites:

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran#Sailing_of_Ships_is_a_Miracle
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran#Mathematical_Error_in_Hereditary_Laws

The calculations still don't add up in more instances than not, but this is law, not science. It also contains the wise disclaimer that if none of the enumerated cases is manifested, god will adjudicate the specifics. I wonder why there are non-koranic regulations of hereditary law or specific persons that have the right to decide on these (or most televised imams lie).

Anyways, I've got some books that are highly scientific and true in every sentence on my shelf. My favourite and the most difficult to read is "Éléments d'analyse," by Jean Dieudonné.

He is given to us by god himself (that's what his surname confirms) and his book far beyond the comprehension of even many grad students in math, but every sentence, line and assertion in it is true (and the proofs are included). Also, it is indeed just the perfect book.

By consequence, TrPrado, you will have to change your faith once again. Fortunately, Jean Dieudonné (PBUH) does not claim to be a prophet of god or that god himself exists (I admit I've still 3 tomes to read, so I might be wrong), so you won't be forced to enter into discussions on this topic at a later point in time. You could just say that you KNOW eg. that 1/n -> 0 for n -> inf. Or that | |R | > | |Q | = | Z/ | = | |N | (to put this into less beautiful prose: that the real infinity is larger than the rational infinity, which itself is the natural infinity and the whole infinity). And that it is proven truth that 0*x = 0, but that 1+1=0 might be mathematically true, and that sometimes 3+5 = 1 is true as well.

Come on and join me!
TrPrado (461 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
What a beautiful false equivalence, X3n0n.
X3n0n (216 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
Where is it wrong?
MustLoveCats (100 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
Everyone knows 3 + 5 = 7, not 1.
TrPrado (461 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
Because you're comprehensively ignoring historical contexts as well.
X3n0n (216 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
You didn't mention historical context in your argument!
X3n0n (216 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
@MLC Not's not, I'm afraid.
TrPrado (461 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
I actually did. It was a parenthetical point.
X3n0n (216 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
found it: "(which the Arabs themselves could not have dreamed to comprehend at the time (including Muhammad (PBUH) himself), and the Quran admits to this, even)"

I'm afraid, I can't see where this would object to my analogy.

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Zach0805 (100 D)
04 Feb 15 UTC
(+4)
Chris Kyle Day
Last Monday was Chris Kyle Day in Texas. Obama hasn't said a word about his death last year but orders flags flown at half mast for Whitney Houston who died of Cocaine. I went on whitehouse.gov and looked up Chris Kyle. Here's what I got; http://search.whitehouse.gov/search?affiliate=wh&form_id=usasearch_box&query=Chris+Kyle
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