Well thanks for the game y'all. I had a hell of a time disappearing goons and lynching spooks

i love how you are still so convinced that the bloc is a good idea. why? just think about it, on some days we had everyone but one person voting for that person, why would he be mafia?
or, as PE said it in the god thread:
"people who refuse to join the bloc voting are almost never mafia. Why? Because bloc voting with the very small degree of casework being done in this game is tantamount to random voting, and towns very rarely win games by random voting. Mafia should be happy to jump on town blocs like these because they can do so without attracting any scrutiny and the odds of the bloc catching all the mafia are virtually nonexistent. It's town players that would want to take a step back and say "Nope, this isn't going to catch the mafia, I want this other guy lynched instead because of XYZ."

If you guys play again, assignments really need to be random, IMHO.

Because seriously, having a badge next to every mafia's name fucking sucked.

I thought it would be huge when vash noticed that, but you managed to deflect it nicely. I think it ended up not mattering.

Yeah, but it was an added thing we had to deal with. It would have sucked if that was why we lost.

PE has claimed that it was just coincidence. Fully random is the way to go though. If another odd coincidence happens next game, the GM should just let it be. It would be just as bad if we knew that it was impossible to have 4 mods be the 4 mafia.

Was it really random? I thought PE assigned it that way.

2wl was in the game as well. (maybe that's why he dropped out?)

It can't be. There's a .007 percent chance it was random

hahaha I fooled you all!

@chaqa: So you're saying there's a chance.

Vashta actually brought up that all the mods might be mafia on day 1, iirc. Thankfully that wasn't taken seriously.

GG all, and well done Abge for surviving to the end and winning us the game :) Not entirely sure where I went wrong (I figured being anti-block would be the most 'townie' position for the reasons already brought up above, so went against it, but I was evidently wrong) but I nearly messed up the game for us, I think.

Also, PE said role-assignments were actually random but it was likely nobody would believe him.

Congratz mafia, and especially Abge!
Thanks PE. Good.game everone - I d like to do this again, but I ll need pause first. This game is f*cking adictive ;-)

kasi, you still *entirely* miss the point of the bloc. Both the very presentation of the idea of the bloc *provoked reaction*, and caused (in my mind) for Captianmeme to out himself. Therefore, on that alone, it was a good idea.

Second, if it had been used, instead of *entirely* wasted on day 1 -- i.e. shift the votes in unpredictable ways to look for patterns and resistance, you would see responses.

When I had the bloc and peole followed my vote, it actually CAUSED discussion, and that discussion was directed and targetted at the current suspect - which is what is was supposed to do...as opposed to 12 individuals each having their own conversation.

You *entirely* miss the point and the power of the bloc, becuase (in part) Fasces totally fucked it up.

Dude the bloc sucked, no question.

Sorry.

and you're entirely missing one point of my argument. when there's ten people left, and nine of them are voting for one person, how high's the chance it's a mafia member?

Abge, my invetigations were brief before I had to out myself for protection. thucy, because I suspected him, probably for erroneous reasons, but because he was a vocal leader it was good to know where he stood to either kill him or support his leadership.

the other two were because they were vocal enough and presented ideas that made them controversial - and therefore they neede to be cleared to decapitated.

I tried to investigate you, of course, but was bocked by that point.

MAFIA question: Was there even a moment's thought that I wasn't the cop when I recanted?

I doubt PE would lie about the setup, but that's just me.

Where do we signup for MAFIA II?

@krellin: i believe that even in the observation thread where people didn't know the roles, they all thought you are the cop on day 2 :)

I was opposed to the bloc concept before and during its implementation in the game. I still am opposed to it now. After seeing in action for two game days, I think both days it suffered from its leadership. I do recognize the possibility that it theoretically could be helpful in the right situation with the right leader.

In this game, I think the krellin-led bloc was useless, and not because of the failure of the Fasces-led bloc the day before. Basically, I saw it as krellin power-tripping. He said jump, and if you didn't immediately jump, then you were suspect. His votes did not appear to be real votes. Instead, they looked like heavy-handed false votes and feints that obviously would not stay put. Even that kind of "loyalty test" was ineffective given that not everyone was online at the same time or for the same duration. If you assumed all bloc members would be on continuously for the entire phase, then I suppose it potentially could work. I think the reality is that the krellin-bloc would whipsaw back and forth, jumping from target to target, while even bloc members trying to sincerely vote loyally to the bloc would end up on disparate targets because of going offline.

I think this bullying style helped the Mafia to the win. Even though most townies had abge high on their suspect list, individual players became more concerned about saving their own skin. So townies compromised -- person X was my top vote but I could live with person Y, and person Y wasn't me.

"and you're entirely missing one point of my argument. when there's ten people left, and nine of them are voting for one person, how high's the chance it's a mafia member? "

One, it was established from the beginning to be Good For A Day...and you decide if you want to do it the next. Obviously it wouldn't work forever, especially as things got smaller.

How would it work effectively with 10 people? Well, if *4* of them are mafia, tryign to blend in with the bloc, andyou settled on one of them by blind ass luck, they would either have to go along to kill that person, or reveal themselves. It would either cause them to kill their own without complaint, or reveal themselves. As opposed to having 10 people Randomly acting, changing their votes on the fly for random reasons, as we had already seen. How effective was NOT having a voting block? Not at all. Why? Because people could change their vote at any time for any reason, and hide under the cover of “Well, EVERYONE is changing votes…why shouldn’t I?”

Plus….again….you can continue to ignore this – but Captainmeme outed himself by his protestations and because anti-townie in some people’s minds because of it.

I didn’t see anyone else doing anything to cause the Townies to work together and strategize…so knock the bloc all you want, it was at least as effective as the random, wild-ass guesses that were happening before it.

"@krellin: i believe that even in the observation thread where people didn't know the roles, they all thought you are the cop on day 2 :) "

then the mafia wasn't very good if I was that obvious. Which...uhhhh...I *was*. My little "set the scene" descriptions that I wrote were embedded with hints....lol

THM - they cold have told old krellin to fuck off....that the silly sheep followed me is their downfall, not my failing.

It's all very well and good to blame krellin, but no one was forcing the town to follow him.

For the record, I posthumously realized a voting bloc isn't a good move for the town. As others have said it provides cover. I realized it as I sniffed out the three remaining mafia (I has y2k, abge, tmow, pj, and one other as my suspects for this), which I got off of voting patterns. I realized immediately as I reached the days with bloc voting that I had that much less data. The town should become progressively more informed as the game wears on, which incidentally was why I opposed a day 1 lynch (and still would), but I noticed krellin continued to use "we know nothing, it's all a shot in the rhetoric" seemingly borrowed from me which, while true on day 1, by day 3 or 4 was just not the case. Abge's attack on yebellz instead of meme was extremely damning.

My attack on Ye was a risk for sure, but I was actually very close to lynching Ye instead of captain. That would have paid off very well for us.

Plus, I was able to hide under the cover of being a stickler for rules, so it ended up working out fine.