@abge: Couldn't you say the same of The Minister of War?

Confirm they aren't the *doctor*.

I think all four of the mafia: captain, y2, TMW, and Vash are all reasonably smart people. But their votes were clearly decided by committee, which is why they were all over the place and made no sense. Clearly, there was no one in that group willing to take charge and develop a real game plan.

You know me, krellin. I am a leader. I would have immediately put a stop to their stupid picks and we would have won this game days ago.

Vashta - no, I was not going to vote for you no matter what. I actually had my vote on Abge earlier. It's just the plethora of ridiculous things I attribute to you that, to me, were anti-townie, as opposed to abge who, while having stuck his neck on the line at times, has also been thoroughly analytical about things, about process, revealing thoughts and strategies that were distinctly insightful and pro-townie.

I think that yes, it is possible that abge has "hidden in the daylight" as I say, hoping by doing so he would be exactly here, now.and yet, in rethinking this, he, from early on, was attempting to influence process and methodology to root out the mafia - a distinctly pro-town move. Had his help via process been more effective (ignoring votes at this point) - it would have endangered him - as he certainly drew enough attention to himself on behalf of the town.

Anyway - don't be such a drama queen. Yes, I've had it out for you for a long time - so what. Eithe rmy gut is right, or it's wrong. CaptainMeMe made equally loud cries such as you right now...they hold **zero** sway over my heart

Your prior actions, though, are what condemn you to me, regardless of the miraculous save...for which the mafia, in a pair, could have easily moved off you and saved you had someone else not. All the voting was chaotic from day to day, with wild-ass swings, and last minute moves. A pair of mafia, or one alone, could have talked his way out of it Hell, I went from "lynch Thucy" to "Thucy is our Glorious Leader" overnight and didn't get lynched for it So...yeah.

Abge: if you were as smart as you say you are you should have bern able to pick out mafia like captainmeme and TMW, instead you agreed and cooperated with them.

Yes, abge - I do believe that you would have not put up with such stupid play by the mafia, and would have effectively laid out the strategy which would have used their night powers more effectively. This circumstantial argument is actually effective to me, and also coincides nicely with Vashta's seeming lack of understanding of strategy and power plays..which is reflective in how the mafia played. Captainmeme and Vashta, anti-process guys randomly using their mafia powers....

This line of argument is effective to me - perhaps the best argument to date:

Mafia played a crappy game - a very un-abge game, and a game very reflective of the thinking I have seen from Vashta...

Good enough.

##END.

And your faith in abge dooms us all

Vashta - the argument doesn't flow so eaily that way. The mafia have powers they control, that can be used to do certain things with surety....such as hit Fasces twice in a row to kill him if were doc, instead of randomly moving on - which is an un-abge process - an unengineering-mind, un-process-control mind way of playing It is distinctly not what I would expect of him.

As one townie of many, you don't have that ability. He DID, though, try to get the town behind processes that might be effective in rooting out strategy and/or group behavior by the mafia - which you were opposed to, yes?

Saying he mad ea wrong choie in siding with townie makes every single one of us guilty, and is a totally unaffective argument.

DAMN YOU abge if you are mafia. lol

Vashta - spare me the dramatics. Captainmeme, your mafia pal, must have fed you those lines with his dying breath. He was equally teary eyed and blah blah blah

Let's end this thing.

Krellin. Wouldn't abge play an un abge game just for that reason if he were mafia? He may like control, but he likes winning a lot more.

So fasces, up to you.

Unofficial Vote

abge: Vash
Vash: abge, krellin

1/3-END: krellin

Also abge, I really do admire yhe way you played. You managed to win the mafia the game, then again you also made sure the two worst guessers in the game decided it.

##Vote Abgemacht

##End

At the end of the day twice Captainmeme lead the lynch against Vashta when he had no reason to do so and both lynches fell short by 1 vote, and as Vashta mentioned the deciding vote, the first day the deciding vote was Krellin, the 2nd day it was Warden. Both of them are now known to be town.

Why would they trust the town to save a mafia on both days? I see no reason for that.

I'm going with the gut I have had for most of the game, and that is that Abgemacht it mafia.

##End Fasces, you sure that is your final vote, because if it is we have to lobby PE to end the game now instead of waiting another day.

we don't Vashta, as you need a majority for the vote to end early. Krellin or Abge has to change his vote for the day to end.

I know that, but if you aren't changing it then there is no reason to keep the game in suspense. Unfortunately PE must go against the rules to end it. So I guess either krellin (neither me mor abge would ever switch) or you switches or we wait for the verdict tomorrow.

Unofficial Vote

abge: Vash, Fasces
Vash: abge, krellin

3/3-END: krellin, Fasces, Vash

Trying to break the rules to end the game, Vash? Typical Mafia.

Fasces,

May I ask you remove your END vote and consider the following (to be posted momentarily).

First, I disagree with the notion that Vash would have died if not for a townie switching their vote. Both times, there was plenty of time for the mafia to switch at the very last moment, just as a townie did. The fact that townies did it both times is certainly a strong defense for Vash, but I don't think he was in any real danger.

Furthermore, in the beginning of the game, the mafia was doing quite well. No one was even remotely suspecting them and the SK (the only real threat to the Mafia) was killed early. I do not think it unreasonable to think the Mafia would throw one of their own under the bus exactly to give them this sort of credibility later on.

I agree it's hard to convince of this, but I'd hope you'd at least consider it as a possibility.

Also, no offense, but while krellin has certainly made some mistakes, he has been very attentive to this game throughout. You have a bit of a habit of just picking someone to kill and ending and they've always come up innocent.

Finally, I think suggesting PE change the rules at the last minute is pretty low. Not only that, but I think it's much more likely that the mafia would try something, being so close to winning, than a townie under suspicious. As the mafia, Vash is under much more pressure to win than I am as a townie.

@abge: that argument sort of makes sense after the death of the SK, but the mafia tried to kill me before that. Also if the mafia was trying to o gain credibility by killing captain, why did y2k not vote for him?

And as for ending early. It is perfectly logical for a townie to argue for it if the town is about to win by doind so.

Later in the game, the mafia weren't doing so well, so it's understandable some may try to save captain.

My, Fasces, and krellin make up the Town. I am only 33% responsible if they pick the wrong person and the Town loses.

You are the only remaining mafia. You are 100% responsible if the mafia loses. It doesn't surprise me that you'd resort to something crazy like that. It's a lot of pressure.

@abge: it doesn't matter if you lose as a shared effort or alone, it is a loss. I would rather the town win, which will happen if we end now or don't change our votes. I'd much rather the win come sooner rather than later.

abge, captainmeme was the first mafia to be lynched, they were doing fine before that.

@Fasces

Because the town was against him and there was no credible alternative at that point.

Earlier, most of the votes against Vash were from Mafia and there was a very strong second. If they needed to, they could have bailed to save him.