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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Golgo1 (459 D)
07 Jan 10 UTC
chat bug?
I hope this is the place to post
I'm using IE8 (at work, no choice to change)
many time when I am typing in the chat box (and just now in this box) the focus seems to jump to the browser window itself. This is mid-type, so ann the keys I press to type seem to get sent to the browser as shortcut commands.
9 replies
Open
podium (498 D)
08 Jan 10 UTC
global messages
In some of my games when I post a message in global post.Other players know who is posting I'm unable to see this.Am I playing an older version or are just guessing as to who posted something in global.Just wondering.
8 replies
Open
Crazy Anglican (1067 D)
08 Jan 10 UTC
I have to admit that I was getting jealous
But we've got snow in Georgia, now!!!!!!!!
6 replies
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akilies (861 D)
08 Jan 10 UTC
This game needs to be canceled
Could the mods cancel this game, i think i'm about the only one still playing on this site. it was paused last spring and was never unpaused
3 replies
Open
`ZaZaMaRaNDaBo` (1922 D)
31 Dec 09 UTC
Wait, what? How did that thing evolve!?
An evolutionary debate.
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Triskelli (146 D)
04 Jan 10 UTC
@MercuryEnigma:

Sex- By having two organisms, you achieve a greater mix of genes, and therefore a greater chance of differences in offspring. (classic example: punnett square)

Gays- Go figure, I have no idea

Protein- not sure what you're talking about there.

Foreplay- That really depends on the whims of the female, what her preferences are. The male isn't always the physically dominant member of the species.

Missing links- Look, dude, we're lucky to even have fossils, let alone a fossil record.

People- According to the fossil record, there were at one point three similar hominids living at about the same period. However, our direct ancestors outpaced their development and drove them to extinction. The tale is even grimmer with the Neaderthals, a divergent species of humans...

UOSnu (113 D)
04 Jan 10 UTC
Crazy Anglican, I'm no more guilty of putting the cart before the horse than you are. This isn't getting anywhere, and I need to disabuse MercuryEnigma of their fallacies so I might get back to you, might not.
Triskelli (146 D)
04 Jan 10 UTC
Oh, and Mercury? Evolution is applicable in predicting results: pesticides and germicides become less effective over time as the bugs and bacteria with a resistance to the toxins survive and propigate
@ USOnu

Hmmm, I don't believe I've put the cart before the horse at all, but it's still an interesting response (tu quoques?).

Yet as we've discussed. I'll not have that much time to continue. Happy hunting.
warsprite (152 D)
04 Jan 10 UTC
MeRSA was predicted by afew but were ignored. Given a lab and several decades it could be reproduced if you want to bother doing so. The greatest misunderstanding about Darwinism is it never was an attempt to predict the exact changes, how, or the fate of individal species but that organisms have and will change over generations and that in the long run those most suited to survive and reproduce will dominate. This is not a blind guess and has been observed in the lab and in nature. You can predict the movement of general mass of the electrons but individual electrons only a probabilityof its direction. A mortor shell can be predicted only to limited degree of certainy. The fate of Sol is based on the snap shot image of the universe that we see now and never has been tested except in models, (and according to which Sol will not explode, it's mass is to small). Trajectories have to be recalculated as small RANDOM unpredictable events do change it over time. Nothing is known with absublute certainy.
UOSnu (113 D)
04 Jan 10 UTC
"However, I do not think Darwinism is up to snuff with scientific standards. For a scientific theory to be credible, it needs to yield results that are reproducible. It needs to predict what will happen and be right. The theory of gravity predicts that an object will accelerate at a rate of 9.8 meters per second per second when dropped anywhere on earth."

The theory of evolution predicts that the organisms best suited to reproduce in their environment will reproduce and pass on their traits to offspring. It's an explanation of how we got to where we are, and while it doesn't give you an exact formula where you can plug in variables like gene drift, population density, breeding patterns, etc., it is a marvelous explanatory tool. Evolution is emphatically NOT equivalent to chance.

"Sexuality is wholly unproductive. To require another organism to procreate is a great hindrance. It is much more successful to reproduce asexually. Yet Most multicellular organism are sexual organisms. This does not hold for Darwin's theory."

This is an astute observation. It's a difficult thing to explain and it's something that scientists have been working towards for some time. One big benefit to sex is recombination. You might not pass on ALL (and in a few generations it's entirely possible you'll pass on none) of your genes, but for the immediate future you might also pass on the good ones and get rid of the bad ones. Sex gives you a true gene pool, it allows for mutations in the population to correct themselves, and that in some sense channels the direction of evolution. It also selects for genes that "co-operate" well. Genes that don't like working with certain other genes get selected out, leading to rather harmonious individual bodies. At any rate, I can't do the debate justice, look into George C. Williams' book Sex and Evolution, Graham Bell's The Masterpiece of Nature, or Matt Ridley's The Red Queen (good for non-specialists).

Homosexual behavior can be explained with numerous hypotheses: Homosexual members of a community don't reproduce, and so can help to raise their nieces and nephews, which share ~25% of their genes. As far as your quarrel with it being passed on, it's as much a product of environmental factors in the womb as it is of genes. Even were it entirely genetic, it's not like that would preclude a stable allele ratio. Sexuality isn't black and white, homosexual and heterosexual, it's more of a continuum. Some people are attracted to both sexes, or one sex somewhat more than the other or somewhat less, or to neither sex at all. It's also worth noting that species like bonobos who "build their society around homosexual behavior," use sexual favors as a way to establish social hierarchies. It's not like they don't have heterosexual sex when they feel like it, they just don't discriminate that much because to do so would be socially isolating.

Your assertion about proteins: Genes code for proteins. Proteins are ultimately the products of genes. Are you talking about epigenetics?

As far as rape as a successful reproductive strategy: For some species it is. But other species figured out ways to avert such situations, and genetically pressured such mating behavior out of existence. As species became genera became families became orders etc, the traits passed down. Sometimes they reverted, sure but it's not that hard to conceive.

For intermediates: This is a problem that Richard Dawkins has called the Fallacy of the Discontinuous Mind. Categorization is /what humans do/. Our ancestors were selected to discriminate quickly between various objects. Evolution /is/ a continuous process. There is no point in evolutionary history where it is perfectly clear that a bird stopped being a dinosaur. But dinosaurs became more birdlike. Hominins became more like Homo sapiens. To give an example of continuity geographically (which is more or less identical to temporal variation), there's a population of salamanders that live along the west coast of North America. Around California's Central Valley there's a ring of salamanders with a break at the southern extremity. on the southwest end of the ring the salamanders are more or less brown. Further north they get little yellow stipples. Further north the stipples turn into dots, which get more and more pronounced as you go around the ring and eventually turn into stripes. Now, the salamanders at either end of the ring (and say, just to say, every 1/8th of the way along the ring) won't breed with each other. But if you take two salamanders separated by five miles along this continuum you'll have a string of salamanders about double the length of California that will breed with some number of their neighbors until they discriminate the potential partner as an ineligible mate. If you went back 1000 years, picked up a male human, took him back 1000 years, picked up a female human, they could breed. Go another 1000 years back, pick up a male. He can breed with the woman. Another thousand years and a woman could still breed with the male. You could do this all the way to the evolution of distinct sexes, picking up individuals of alternating sexes at 1000 year intervals. There's no distinct point at which a species is "official" in the temporal dimension. At any rate, there is no lack of intermediate fossils. There is rather a great abundance of them. The problem is that whenever one is found, people like you say "Oh, now you've got /two/ gaps to fill." Regardless, even in the entire absence of fossils molecular evidence from DNA shows a common heritage of all life on earth.

As far as your questions about why there aren't multiple species on earth with human levels of cognition, the answer is that it can't just come from nowhere. If there's no evolutionary pressure for larger brains and better problem solving or social skills, then organisms aren't going to waste resources on extravagant cognition machines that could be better spent on reproduction or muscular development or whatever. Evolution doesn't leap up a cliff, it slowly climbs up a very shallow slope.
UOSnu (113 D)
04 Jan 10 UTC
CA: You seem to assume that we need to search for the divine, that we need to create some discipline with soil already receptive to the idea of gods. In my opinion, if evidence of god shows up, great, we can go from there, but until then you're just assuming what you set out to prove.
warsprite (152 D)
04 Jan 10 UTC
Perhaps you could take a course or two of paleontology you will find that several intermediate species have been found. Including the living species of monotremes mammals that lay eggs, produce milk through pores, not nipples, a lower body temp than other mammals, and have a cloaca instead of seperate openings.
USOnu:
I knew up front that you did not agree with my opinion about the existence of God or the need for religion. Nor do I agree with yours. That's not a big issue as I'm not really making any attempt to bring you around to my way of thinking.

I merely refuted the statements you made about Astronomy and Christianity. Whatever you may think of my reasoning on the subject, the statements that you made weren't valid and as such showed that you were assuming what you set out to prove on this issue as well ;-) That's the problem of faith. You put yours in solely material/ physical concepts. As such you've overstepped in this area and had to resort to a rush back to an attack on the idea of God's existence. I on the other hand do have faith in something that I otherwise have little physical evidence to support. Either way though, it's faith.

The entire argument misses the point though. If no evidence for God's existence comes forth in my lifetime, okay. I have made a decision to be a part of an organization that encourages me to do some good in the world. One that provides a worldwide infrastructure to carry that out, and has a good, solid set of values and theology behind it. Faith in God is exactly that, but seeing the good that comes from serving God is an entirely different matter. Certainly atheists do great things as well; I'm claiming no superiority in this. I'm pointing out we could continue arguing about the existence of God, or realize that there is real work for us to do in the world that is more meaningful. God, extant or not, would probably like us to care for others. It's part of his commandments in my religion, and it's probably part of your sensibilities too. Call it evolution, random chance, or Divine inspiration, it's still more important than blowing smoke at each other.
"A light-sensitive cell just so happened to form; air-breathing functionality just so happened t occur; sexual tendencies just so happened to appear."

Alright, then what created the means for the light-sensitive cell to form? I agree with Merc, Darwinism has a lot more holes than explanations.

Oh, and Merc, gravity is a law, not a theory. =P

Please don't call me a Bible-thumping moron, especially when it was written by thousands of authors over thousands of years without a single contradiction. Saying that that's chance or a collection of fables is moronic.

"A light-sensitive cell just so happened to form; air-breathing functionality just so happened t occur; sexual tendencies just so happened to appear."

Alright, then what created the means for the light-sensitive cell to form? I agree with Merc, Darwinism has a lot more holes than explanations.

Oh, and Merc, gravity is a law, not a theory. =P

Please don't call me a Bible-thumping moron, especially when it was written by thousands of authors over thousands of years without a single contradiction. Saying that that's chance or a collection of fables is moronic.
Oops. I was looking at the wrong page =P
warsprite (152 D)
04 Jan 10 UTC
@TMW and Merc No it does not. Your definition of Darwisim is flawed.
spyman (424 D(G))
04 Jan 10 UTC
"Alright, then what created the means for the light-sensitive cell to form?"

The Darwinian algorithm:
Variation - genes mutate
Selection - sometimes the mutations confer a survival advantage
Hereditary - the advantageous trait is passed on to successive generations

Result - evolution occurs, however incrementally.

Which part of this process strikes you as implausible The_Master_Warrior?
spyman (424 D(G))
04 Jan 10 UTC
Not a single contradiction in the bible?

Who is the father of Joseph?

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

There's one for starters.
Invictus (240 D)
04 Jan 10 UTC
I do not understand how people can't reconcile evolution with religion. If you read Genesis as mostly parable then I don't see how a Theistic Evolution outlook conflicts with faith at all. This is even pretty much what the Pope thinks!

"Please don't call me a Bible-thumping moron, especially when it was written by thousands of authors over thousands of years without a single contradiction. Saying that that's chance or a collection of fables is moronic."

I don't what to turn this into another Bible thread, but the Bible is far from consistent. You only have to look at how there are many different Christian sects to see that. If that doesn't get you, then two creation stories, where King David's census is attributed to the devil in one part and God in another, changing views on whether circumcision is mandatory, sundry numerical inconsistencies, changes about animal sacrifice, narrative differences between the Gospels (such as what was written above Jesus on the Cross), references to non-canonical books, and any number of other things will.

Here's a website listing some, even using King James Version verses. You seem like a King James guy to me.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html

You can justify the inconsistencies with dogma and faith, but you can't deny that they exist. That just makes you look like a crazy person.
Invictus (240 D)
04 Jan 10 UTC
spyman, that's just a dangling modifier referring to Mary.
spyman (424 D(G))
04 Jan 10 UTC
Really? I have missed something then.
In MAT 1:16, Joseph's father is Jacob
in LUK 3:23 Joseph's father is Heli
No? How do you read it?
spyman (424 D(G))
04 Jan 10 UTC
Maybe LUK 3:23 should read Eli (or perhaps this is another way of writing Heli).
spyman (424 D(G))
04 Jan 10 UTC
Actually both LUKE and MATTHEW provide very different genealogies for Jesus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogy_of_Jesus
Invictus (240 D)
04 Jan 10 UTC
I thought you were talking about the father of Jesus. I misread.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
04 Jan 10 UTC
not following the thread, but : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8435320.stm

nice news artilce about prions, i didn't know they could/couldn't do that...
Tantris (2456 D)
04 Jan 10 UTC
@spyman: TMW will say the different genealogies of Jesus aren't contradictions, but just showing that jesus was so holy he was actually born twice and then merged into one.
Hibiskiss (631 D)
04 Jan 10 UTC
@TMW: "Please don't call me a Bible-thumping moron, especially when it was written by thousands of authors over thousands of years without a single contradiction. Saying that that's chance or a collection of fables is moronic."

Really? I'm a strong believer but you're going to go there and say the Bible does not contain contradictions? The contradictions are why you're not the same denomination I am.
UOSnu (113 D)
04 Jan 10 UTC
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

What was that you were saying about no contradictions? Also, just because something has been passed down for years doesn't mean ****. We still have the Odyssey, tales of Greek and Roman gods, and besides, the Vedas have been around far longer than the texts of the bible. Time to convert, my friend.
warsprite (152 D)
04 Jan 10 UTC
@ Spyman "Darwinian algorithm" I think has already been stated several different ways, yet he keeps coming back with variations of the same question. I don't think he even thinks, just a knee jerk responses.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
04 Jan 10 UTC
"Alright, then what created the means for the light-sensitive cell to form?"

"The Darwinian algorithm:
Variation - genes mutate
Selection - sometimes the mutations confer a survival advantage
Hereditary - the advantageous trait is passed on to successive generations

Result - evolution occurs, however incrementally."

Just a little FYI: most mutations in our current (hugely long and complicated code) do nothing. They neither provide a benifit nor do they cause terrible harm.

We also have old code which is no longer used. It is really like computer code, it can do things but at present happen not to. Mutations can include deleting a specific part of the code or adding something... So before you ask how is it possible, try to understand a bit about what 'Variation - genes mutate' actually means.


"The lung cancer DNA code had more than 23,000 errors largely triggered by cigarette smoke exposure. " - from here http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8414124.stm

This may be a bad example but smoking cigarettes all your life may not cause cancer, it just depends on which 23,000 mutations you get, a lot of mutations cause a cell to be identified as 'different' and they either self-destruct (Apoptosis) or makes them appear different in which case they are destroyed by the body's immune system - cancer cells are ones which refuse to die when the body sends the auto-shut down signal and which are still able to multiply creating more copies or themselves which also refuse to die.... that is an example of mutation, and survival of the fittest - cancer cells are only fitter than their neighbouring cells because they don't have a functioning autoshut-down sequence... It's not nice but it is really cool just how complicated our cells really are.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
04 Jan 10 UTC
oh, so my point being, a chemical which absorbs a specific wavelenght of light and creates an electrical charge is possible due to random mutation. It does not cause the death of the cell, it may not help, but it can definitely exist and continue to be created in many generations of cells because it is hard coded into the dna.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
04 Jan 10 UTC
@TMW: "Alright, then what created the means for the light-sensitive cell to form? I agree with Merc, Darwinism has a lot more holes than explanations.

Oh, and Merc, gravity is a law, not a theory. =P"

The means? all molecule interact with electromagnetic radiation. This is the mean, which specific wavelenghts of light they interact with depend on the specific molecule, but if you want to understand it then please study it yourself. I could rant/lecture at you about it for far more time than i have today.

And the theory of general relativity - which describes Einstienian Gravity (as opposed to Newtonian Gravity) is just that a theory. It explains the motion of mercury better than newton's theory. It is still just a theory. (both theories can be used to predict things about how, let's say, apples fall, and the accuracy of those predictions can be tested, we're not expecting that apples will ever fall differently, but we may find the theory explaining how precisely they fall changes... especially with a theory of quantum gravity, which has thus far eluded physcists)
lkruijsw (100 D)
04 Jan 10 UTC
Except of defending evolution, we can also attack creationism.

Only the ears of mammals (bats and dolphins) are capable of developing echo-location, because of the three ear-bones.

If creationism is true, why keep this hierarchy in animals? I mean, Apple switched from PowerPC to Intel processor.

I understand that you don't deploy all good designs to all animals, that would be boring. But if you have a good ear design, why wouldn't you deploy that in some fish that could use it?

Lucas

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405 replies
moses (124 D)
08 Jan 10 UTC
live game everybody
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=18516
3 replies
Open
grumbledook (569 D(S))
06 Jan 10 UTC
Chaos game on GoonDip!
http://goondip.com/board.php?gameID=290
14 replies
Open
SEcki (1171 D)
08 Jan 10 UTC
live game
Hi, there's a live game at gameID=18491
0 replies
Open
Panthers (470 D)
08 Jan 10 UTC
Hard and Fast anyone?
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=18491
1 reply
Open
Le_Roi (913 D)
05 Jan 10 UTC
Guess Random Facts About People!
Let's see how well this works. First person asks a question about themselves, other people try to guess. Correct person is notified somehow, and asks a question in turn. I'll start with...
I just consumed a fruit. What is this fruit?
45 replies
Open
Panthers (470 D)
08 Jan 10 UTC
Live Game Nation!!!
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=18501


DO IT!
0 replies
Open
Pete U (293 D)
08 Jan 10 UTC
Shameless plug for a new game
In memory of my wife's grandfather..
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=18494
3 day turns, 29 D to play, PPSC
3 replies
Open
Dunecat (5899 D)
07 Jan 10 UTC
Join me in this world-wide map variant.
gameID=18446; 50-hour phases, PPSC, 101 point bet, five days to join. I didn't know we could make these games.
25 replies
Open
wizard (0 DX)
08 Jan 10 UTC
possible meta gaming
i'm playing as Germany in gameID=18134 and received the following from England: "sounds like a plan... wizard. who is this?" as if he expected to know me outside of webdip. To me this indicates that the user expects to know AT LEAST one other player in the game, which obviously puts me at a huge disadvantage. please take the appropriate steps to rectify this.
5 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
08 Jan 10 UTC
What the heck is a crimson tide.
Texas fight. I go to UT. That game was bull. Discuss
0 replies
Open
moses (124 D)
08 Jan 10 UTC
LIVE GAME! LIVE GAME!
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=18487
please do it
1 reply
Open
DocVanHellsing (207 D)
08 Jan 10 UTC
off timezone livegame
for the not-sleepers and people living in a timezone where its not middle of the night ^^
8 D, WTA, 10 minutes per turn
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=18483
1 reply
Open
podium (498 D)
08 Jan 10 UTC
live game
we had six players for live game 44.If we can get those players back plus one we can start it up quickly any one get set game.
1 reply
Open
DocVanHellsing (207 D)
08 Jan 10 UTC
early morning live game....
11 D, WTA and 10 minutes turn lenght...
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=18470

feel free to join
4 replies
Open
notoriousmjf (0 DX)
08 Jan 10 UTC
LIVE GAME JOIN NOW
0 replies
Open
V+ (5465 D)
07 Jan 10 UTC
Adjudication question
Given the following set of orders, when the French F GoL gets displaced, can it retreat to Spa (sc)? It seems like it should be able to, but I want to be sure.
7 replies
Open
Infinitum (100 D)
08 Jan 10 UTC
Some Random Live Game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=18451

Would like some commentary. Russia did not submit orders first turn, so I got the better hand of the Juggernaut. Took Tunis before Eng can set-up the traditional stalemate. Also Rus tricked Eng a bit. Stabbed Rus for a solo.
0 replies
Open
Skies (110 D)
06 Jan 10 UTC
World Juniors Final (hockey)
Anyone else watching the final between Canada and the US? It's going into overtime now!
9 replies
Open
denis (864 D)
07 Jan 10 UTC
Who is interested in Team Asia?
Team Asia anyone? Just wondering...
6 replies
Open
the.dibster (100 D)
07 Jan 10 UTC
Mac, PC, or Linux (or... Chrome, etc.)
Just curious, how many of you own macs, PCs, run linux? Which is your favorite?
21 replies
Open
Rubetok (766 D)
03 Jan 10 UTC
care to answer?
Which is more fun boardgame: Diplomacy or War ? Why ?
28 replies
Open
KaizerBoenke (100 D)
07 Jan 10 UTC
fast live game
hi folks looking for three more for a fast start.....
3 replies
Open
thewonderllama (100 D)
07 Jan 10 UTC
Any Chicagoan/Midwesterners up for making a World Cup team?
I see there is already a Midwestern team, so I thought perhaps there could be a Chicago-only or perhaps a major-cities-of-the-midwest one? :) Darwyn, I'm looking at you here.
5 replies
Open
Infinitum (100 D)
07 Jan 10 UTC
Join Live Diplomacy
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=18445
0 replies
Open
jimgov (219 D(B))
04 Jan 10 UTC
Forming a Southeast US World Cup team
Anyone want to join? I don't care about your GR or any such nonsense. Just that you've played for years and know what you are doing. Sign up here.
26 replies
Open
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