Sure I do...I get great entertainment value for your posts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKiJcxAd1lE&feature=related

Thanks, Greysoni, but I'm not finished with you yet, my Son!

"Don't assume that simply because one gives their opinion that you can derive from that their motivations for doing so. " Exactly!
Then you go on with "I actually think that.. etc etc..."
Yes, yes, well, well, "Actually think" this and that...
Sure, I have a certain *faith* in you, but there's more than thinking... Motivation is more important.

I asked somewhere: "Putin... this devastating intellect and energy. But what's his motivational force?"
He gave the oracular response: "Procrastination".

I'm still trying to figure that out.

and in this corner the CRUSHER!

Talking of Buddhism I've been to Borobudur, what a shame that the place has been so vandalised, that is a pretty impressive pad !!

@Sylence Actually that was for Putin...but I also get entertainment value from yours as well...though of a different sort entirely

The people live in misery while their priests live like kings. No women of course. But hey, when you're searching for some exotic belief system you can overlook things like tantric sacrifice.

But Putin, what's your problem with that "Prostrating man"?
What's your motivation for "feeling sorry" for him?

I wish I could go out walking in a beautiful scenery doing those exercises without being considered a case for mental care.

@Greysoni Yes, very good. And Entertainment we shall have of each other, in the truest ethymological sense of the word.

I think you guys have confirmed what I thought, that it is very difficult to discuss theology seriously with hard-core fanatics. Once God has 'touched' you you find answers to all the imponderable questions that us mere mortals have.
Whether God exists or not I'm sure you guys are well-rehearsed and have your answers ready prepared.

Because I saw throngs of beggars face planting into gravel every 5 seconds while the well groomed lamas sat in their throne rooms in the monastery (indeed poor Tibetans travel hundreds of miles in horrible conditions doing these pilgrimages were they face plant the whole time).You had to pay something to see inside the damn thing. The lamas abusiveness of their own people is legendary.

It's a disgusting belief system. The only reason people don't universally abhor it is because Hollywood has whitewashed it and orientalists looking for a way to be special are attracted to it.

OK Putin.

I am so respecting of you that I'll be very interested to understand you to the utmost here.

I'd like to know what is exactly implied in "Beggar" and "well groomed".
And this sentence I don't understand "You had to pay something to see inside the damn thing" Who had to pay and pay what, and see what thing?

I don't know how important this is, but
let's put a question this way... Who would you rather be, yourself -
One of them sitting in their throne rooms or one of them traveling pilgrims?

Beggar = someone begging for money. Lots and lots of beggars flock to monasteries for this purpose.

Well groomed = clean, as opposed to everybody else, who was covered in dirt.

We had to pay some amount to see inside the labyrinth of a monastery, to see the rooms where they mumble their chants. I don't know how much because I paid a lump sum to the Communist Youth League group I was with at the beginning of the trip. Suffice to say you didn't see any "pilgrims" anywhere near the lamas.

@Putin
I made a logical-grammatical blunder. (If I could edit my own posts, I'd just be at 10 posts now and keeping on editing them). My last question I myself was most eager to have your answer to. But many thanks anyway.

You know how it is very commonly with people in our cultural sphere, how it fits into their roles to feel sorry for the *people* in North Korea. Even though it is not a feeling that keeps them sleepless, perhaps there is a bit of true feeling involved...

Do you feel sorry for the beggars of Tibet?
What's a beggar?
I suggest: Someone who is dependent on strangers for his livelihood.
Aren't we beggars too, Putin?
Perhaps I'd rather go to a monastery to beg than wherever I have to go and beg for the right to do a days work and get paid now.
If we put degrees on whoring according to how much you are obliged to offer of yourself to be allowed an identity in the community... (let's say a duty to be *clean* for example) where do we find the most beggarly population?

Pan-handler, if you prefer. I feel sorry for every impoverished person who'd rather kiss the robes of their oppressors than fight them.

So, for those of you that want more Brick Testament reading, here you go!

John 12:1-8
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_life_of_jesus/jesus_and_the_poor/jn12_01pmt26_06pjn12_02.html

John 13:4-27 (there are two different versions!)
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_life_of_jesus/the_last_supper/jn13_04.html
http://www.bricktestament.com/the_gospels/the_last_supper/jn13_04.html

John 14:6
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_life_of_jesus/jesus_run_out_of_nazareth/mk06_02pjn14_06.html

It doesn't look like there's anything for John 15 or John 16.

Nigeebaby,

What debate do you want to have. In my estimate, we're doing something akin to a book talk. Everybody reads the book and discuss that meaning and themes they see in the writing. Having more people examine the works and give opinions about them enriches the discussion. I may disagree and point out why I disagree, but disagreement shouldn't mark me as a fanatic. Especially since you said my responses weren't half as Crazy as I thought the other day.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17984642

Is there any time to discuss more paedophilia from senior members of the cloth?
Ultimately it's not what you say but what you do that God will judge you on

The questions I have are not about the Bible itself but the Bible bashers

Nigee, you are the one bashing the Bible. I wonder if you have asked yourself why your reaction is so strong. Wouldn't it be better to go "Wow, fascinating!!!" when people of faith talk about their experiences?? ...with a grain of salt, of course, but with an open mind. What is preventing you from doing that, and do you need some help?

Wait I didn't mean to be rude. I'm just wondering if we can pray for you, either generally or for something specific.

" Wouldn't it be better to go "Wow, fascinating!!!""

So we're obligated to find your stone age ghost stories that justify barbarism "fascinating", else we need "help"?

" I'm just wondering if we can pray for you, either generally or for something specific."

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full."

Matthew 6:5

Mutejus is insufferable.

Well said, Putin. I don't go, "wow, fascinating," because it's not at all fascinating. It's tiresome at best, and horrifying at worst.

I think that's more or less exactly not what Mujus meant.

Saying "wouldn't it be better" rather than "you had better" indicates a suggestion more than any obligation, so I doubt he meant that you were obligated to do anything. The offer to pray didn't seem to me a criticism but an inquiry. It seems you didn't get the tone of his statement quite right.

I love that Matthew quote though.

I think that it reminds us not to serve God in a way that is really serving ourselves. That is not to be Christian for the sake of being respected for the fact. It does go along with the other readings we've studied in that there is that idea that the world will reject you. Christ warns his disciples not to expect to escape persecution. Job doesn't escape trials. Christ himself doesn't escape persecution.

I think in the context of a consistent stream of opposition Mujus cannot be accused with very much merit of seeking the approval of men. The reward he has received is scorn. When as far as I can tell he was just trying to be a nice guy. Even apologizing after a fashon if he came across as rude. I don't think we're guilty of public prayer or being proud of our piety. Merely taking part in a discussion of a group of stories.

Ok, I admit to sometimes being a bit rough toward certain kinds of posts, but I didn't mean to ridicule you, Nigee, although I should have asked you in private if you wanted prayer for anything. As for praying in public, as Crazy said, the meaning of that instruction is very clear: Don't pretend to be all pious in front of other people. That's not what this is about. My intention was to point out that something is wrong when someone posts comments that are constantly ridiculing and angry in tone.

Today's Bible reading is John Chapter 17:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jhn&c=17&v=1&t=NLT#1
In which Jesus says, John 17:3 "And this is the way to have eternal life—to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth." This chapter also contains Jesus' prayer to the Father for his disciples.

People like Putin and Nigee attack religion because they feel it's weak and dying (which it is). Vultures. On the other hand, if you take something that includes loads of crap just like organized religion, but its position is currently strong, like "ecology" or "social justice", they'll respectfully shut their traps and start lighting candles. Lame.

I don't think that is their motivation. Putin is a self admitted Communist and that ideology's antagonism towards religion is well known. Nigee has the same antagonism towards it the many people do. Many who are Christians have provided a great deal of evidence of hypocrisy and, hence, have turned many people against it. Also it is in contradiction to the prevailing materialistic paradigm which has grown out of the advancement of science but is mistakenly seen as one and the same. And like most people who hold different beliefs they are sure they are right and hold contradictory beliefs in varying degrees of contempt. If you defend yours then you are a fanatic. This whole debate says a great deal more about human nature and does little to advance any discussion of ideas. Putin sees religion as the "opiate of the masses" and would do anything to see it die and his posts reflect this abundantly , Nigee has a more garden variety opposition to it.

Nice description. It sounds true, so I'm sure they'll hate it.

oh yes I am waiting with baited breath to be berated.