well i certainly don't take work as seriously as others, i'll be the first to admit that :). i make sure i get that paycheck.

i'm definitely checking over damian again tonight

@Damian: I noted your posts, but what stood out was your assertive 'mild scum' partial. I have questioned others on this issue as well but your response has spiked my interest hence the questioning.

It was early game after all, but the first 2-3 pages is a third of the game so far and I look at ALL the evidence. a mild (not weak, not null) scum partial on page 2/3 is noteworthy. Especially since the player that was READ was not even playing the game.

Then on 9 for you to dismiss your second post rating and my analysis on it is also important. Which is why I voted for you. You clearly, stated in an assertive statement how you read him then you contradict yourself on page 9 by trying to brush off that you ever made the statement. in the post you just linked the statement is there!

Read into toemato/trprado all you want, but the people I have questioned on it have not claimed it was joking but offered excuses and it seems to me that Damian has contradicted himself from earlier in the game. A contradiction like that early D1 is important.

@ Y2k Awesome. Once you finish doing so, please feel free to direct some questions my way. I'm happy to answer any question you'd like to pose.

@y2k are you not getting the majority of your analysis on my "scummyness" from a JOKE I made??? I'll read you stuff over soon.

@HR hah, that charming snark :')

@ND I'm not sure I agree I contradicted myself.

In my summary of what I said
I mentioned thinking he was mildly scummy if he didn't show up
I mentioned that I thought there were simpler explanations
And that we should focus on players who are here.

These are all things in my post. Am I downplaying the mild scum read? Yes.
Because I think the context you found it in downplays it.

HR says (p8) I need to explain why I think wjessop is scum. Very funny HR. Please go back and read the part of that post where I explicitly say that I have no reason to think that he's scum. Whether town or scum, he's playing an anti-town game as I explained p5. Whether someone is town or scum, if they're setting the town back, we're better off without them. If wjessop's contributions ever outweigh his other posts, I will gladly remove that vote. At present, however, I have seen no effort on his part toward that aim.

Also, as I've said in every game I've played here to date, I don't believe that we know anything until someone dies. I will never scumread anyone until somebody has died. HR points out that we caught scum D1 last game, but fails to mention that it was a third party that we lynched, because the mafia was on board with the lynch. Mafia always influence the D1 lynch, and that makes the odds of lynching scum on D1 worse than random. HR is just shrinking the sample size until it seems to support his absurd claim.

HR points out that I haven't contributed much myself. Valid point. Expect more from me when I'm on my laptop instead of my phone.

ND says (p9) that I'm pointing out the obvious. If it's obvious to everyone that wjessop is playing anti-town, why aren't more people on his case?

DO, yea i voted you for the joke that i interpreted (and still interpret) as a mild scum-slip. why do you care more about that than about reading people yourself? my vote isn't even on you anymore. do some reading, give some thoughts, and if they're honest i'll hopefully catch onto it and town-read you.

I've got to get to class.
@HR
I've stated my suspicion on wjessop and DO a while back.

I'll be back at around 11pm CST

Anyway, I think I've heard enough from people to post a few more reads now.

1. y2kjbk - Null, I was leaning town on y2k until his defence of wjessop. Which I found both unconvincing and odd.
2. ghug - Slight town
3. Hellenic Riot - Null, needs to post more before I can get a read
4. Yoyoyozo - Lurking , slight scum.
5. ND - Slight town. He's clearly looking at the board and trying to scum hunt.
6. Saladinsmith - Need to see more to judge
7. OB_Gyn_Kenobi - Lurker. Slight Scum
8. DeathLlama9 - Slightly Lean Scum, started the whole train on TrPrado. Which could have easily been a diversion. Hasn't been around to contribute much since then.
9. Balki Bartokomous - Slight town, while his arguments have been problematic. I'm glad he's bringing them up, I think they help the town.
10. bo_sox48 - Null, I'm still trying to decide where I stand on the policy lynch thing. I do think putting pressure on lurkers is useful.
11. captainmeme - Lurker slight scum
12. wjessop - Detailed case on 8, slight scum
13. Maniac - I cannot even handle Maniac. To many mind games.
14. Espi - Null, slight lean town. He's been missing for a while but I do think he positively contributed a bit while he was here
15. Damian - Duh, Town
16. guak - Hasn't been around much, null
17. Toemato - He seems really confused but ... I really don't know. Reactive voting leads me to a slight scum read
18. DemonOverlord - Not sure about DO. Need to see more before I read Null
19. uclabb - I cannot remember why but I have marked uclabb down as slight town.

I know, I know, I have too many slight scum reads for the number of mafia. But eh, that's what I have

Mafia influence every lynch; don't be an idiot.

Third parties are scum. 'Scum' have been lynched D1 in M7, M8, and M12 (I don't know what happened in M11). Town have been lynched D1 in M9 (I think), and maybe M11, with the tie in MX. So, 50% of the time since I started following/playing Mafia here.

Voting people you don't think is scum is terrible. Whether or not you're correct does not matter at this stage; as long as you're actually trying to work it out - that helps the rest of US read YOU as well.

"bla bla bla anti-town bla bla bla" can be said about almost anyone at various points. Unless it is consistent across multiple days; it rarely means they're scum. A lot of people are pressuring wjessop without voting him, because they're suspicious of him - that's the natural response to someone being a bit anti-town.

"a mild (not weak"

Are you fucking kidding with this Prado shit, ND? That's not a real argument you can make. Votes to kill him were cast, and people assumed that meant he was playing. It's not egregious. It's what I thought too, and it's not at all out of line. Not being able to recall the nineteen players from memory doesn't mean someone hasn't read the thread. Not checking to make sure every player mentioned doesn't mean anything either. A mild scum read is the same as a weak scumread. Nothing here is unreasonable. Just stop.


Nothing about DeathLlama in any discussion strikes me as odd. He's been moderately active. Why isn't he getting any attention?

So, Damian, I'm particularly interested in your 'slight town' reads on ghug and Espi there (also uclabb, but even you don't seem to know why on earth you have that one). Can you explain those, please?

Okay, we’re nearly 24 hours in. Jokes are over. Time zone excuses are inadequate. There is plenty of substance to address. There is no pro-town reason for anyone to have failed to contribute so far. It is very frustrating to try to make sense of this town when such a large percentage of it has been absent. And it is even more frustrating to know that the number of lurkers is so large that there must be bad townies in there, even though this town is swarming with scum.

I am going to post a list of people who have been useless. My intent is to shine a light on them in whatever dark cracks they are hiding. By including or excluding anyone from this list of the useless, I am not commenting on their alignment. I am simply highlighting the fact that they have refused to be scrutinized for almost 24 hours. And that sucks.

NOT AFRAID OF SCRUTINY

1. y2kjbk – has been perhaps the most vocal participant to date.
2. ghug –provided a list of reads on page 4, has made suggestions about power roles, pressured Toemato, scumread Yoyo.
3. Hellenic Riot – entered with a beefy list of observations at page 8.
4. Yoyoyozo – posts some reads of wjessop and Demon on page 5, comments on town strategy at 7.
5. ND – list of questions at the bottom of page 4. I’ll note that this is a bit less than I’m used to seeing from ND at this stage, and I’m surprised he hasn’t scumread me yet. ND, why haven’t you scumread me yet?
6. Saladinsmith – only two posts so far. The first one (at 5) called out wjessop for making joke posts early (wjessop was not the only one) and the second one (at 7) criticized Maniac’s reaction test and excused the fact that he was voting for wjessop by saying he’d “probably move to a major wagon” if he’s not really on one at end of day. (probably have to revisit this one)
8. DeathLlama9 – makes some early comments about PRs. Presented some early “scumreads,” with typical hedging, commented on my opening post, has asked a fair number of questions.
9. Balki Bartokomous – one of the great picnic sack racers of all time.
10. bo_sox48 – has been pretty efficient with several meaty posts. Not afraid to share his thoughts on PR issues, and has asked a lot of questions.
11. captainmeme – Just moved him from the useless camp after he made a case on Yoyo. Thanks for joining us Captain.
12. wjessop – lots of joking early posts. Has evoked a considerable response and is one of the most commented on participants so far. Has spent a lot of time defending himself, and has been fairly engaged.
15. Damian – one of our more active posters. Lots of questions, lots of taking positions. Model participant.


USELESS

7. OB_Gyn_Kenobi – does OB_Gyn have an excuse lurking in the sign-up thread? Can’t even say he’s been away on a walkabout, as he posted once: “Captain is more active than usual, he must be scum.” OB_Gyn has some splainin’ to do.
13. Maniac – Argh, maybe my expectations for you are too high. By my count, you have one useful post. That’s your critique of Y2K on page 8. The rest is all “trust me guys, I’ll explain this later.” I still have high expectations for Town Maniac, and I think you need to show us more so we know with whom we’re dealing.
14. Espi - awfully thin. Makes some joke posts, encourages people at page 3 to respond to my opening post and asks me a question. Espi, where have you been? You have actually been here reading and posting, but you haven’t really said anything. You don’t seem like someone who is trying to solve a puzzle to me.
16. guak – seems to think this is a contest to see who can go the longest without talking. Guak is winning.
17. Toemato – bizarre. Came on firing about guak/ghug. Came out firing again about wjessop. Poor reading comprehension. And refuses to go back and explain the early mishap re guak/ghug. What were you trying to say there? I don’t know whether he is beginner town or beginner mafia, but I am learning quickly that the town won’t miss him much either way.
18. DemonOverlord – makes an early read on wjessop based on “vibes.” Then spends some time defending herself against wjessop and y2k. Then has disappeared since page 4. We need to see much more from Demon.
19. uclabb – takes some strong positions on page 4, then disappears into the abyss. High on efficiency, which I appreciate, but short on content.

DAY 1 MVPs

This lot doesn’t seem to respond well to public shaming. But I’ve noticed that people crave positive recognition. Thus, I shall henceforth offer a daily MVP award to the game participants who are least afraid of scrutiny. The award recognizes participants who actually post sentences in this thread that relate loosely to the search for mafia. Day 1 winners are Damain and Y2K. Congratulations.

Guak, did you here that? It’s an MVP award! You lost. I hope you win the next one.

Re: Espi, I mentioned this earlier. But when he was here I encouraged people to discuss Balki's points and helped clear up the confusion with TrPrado. Its not much to go on. But it was helpful, and if he were Mafia and noticed I don't think he would have cleared up the TrPrado mess.

Re: Ghug I think he brought up a really useful idea regarding the Vig role. That allows the town to get two lynches in one day. I hadn't thought of it. So I assumed others haven't as well. I don't think the Mafia would want the town to have the option to double lynch and wouldn't mention it

Balki, are you simply categorizing people based on activity? Do you have town vs. scum reads that you can split the useless vs. active groups into, essentially having four groups? I would expect this job to be easier for the active group than the useless group.

ghug suggested (p8) that vig kill the leading votegetter an hour before lynch. That's a really neat idea, except that we know that lots of people won't be around at EOD. Doing this might leave half of our town voting for someone who's already dead. Has it already been addressed what happens in a situation like that, or is there a possibility half the town is modkilled?

Plan to respond to HR, but this stuff takes a while to type on my phone.

Off to reread. I plan to reread Yoyo in previous games as well since I definitely don't recall him liking policy lynches

@Balki - how are "not afraid of scrutiny" and "useless" antonyms?

Balki. While I appreciate the award. I worry that nominated a town mvp(s) for each day is basically giving the mafia list of people to kill. Also I'm really glad you're posting your thoughts on everyone. It helps allay some of my earlier worries about you.

I suppose as a counter point it might give the doctor an idea of who to protect. But it is not an idea without some risk. Do you think the risk is worth it/do you think it might help the doctor as much/more than the mafia?

damian, are you actually impressed with balki's list? it still refuses to give any actual town vs. scum reads on people. useless =/= scum, active =/= town.

@Saladin: No, I said your first two points about were things almost everyone knows or at least agrees with. Maybe someone disagrees if so then I retract. Those two points did not include Wjessop.

“1) making words count: duh
2) joke posts are anti-town: usually after page 1, yes”
(ND, 9)

@Ghug: That’s ridiculous I questioned DL and I am going to write in my reads more about this confusing and ridiculous situation. In one of my previous posts I said I don’t buy that DL confused two players with names that start with “T”. Check the record. The point is Damian slipped and contradicted himself. I explained why. Also you are totally wrong. Mild (or at least how I inferred) would come after Slight, but before Strong. Thus a medium rating which is a hell of a lot stronger than weak. That is how I infer it.

@ Dl I think all you have to do is vote. So even my current unvote counts. And if the day ended now I wouldn't be mod killed.

So I think we don't have to worry about the town all being killed. With that said, since lots of people cannot return to the board for EOD, its probably a bad idea to kill really close to the deadline. (Actually true of me this day, since I just started a new job and got my first set of shifts today. And I'm working through EOD tomorrow.)

FYI: For me mild=slight. But hey, milage may vary.

@y2k. I'm impressed he made one. He does actually give his thoughts on a whole bunch of players. But... I may be reading into the categories too much. Treating the useful as non-scum and the useless as scum.

he's not giving his thoughts, he's stating observations. Balki is consistently failing to say what he actually thinks about the observations he's making. That's a scum ploy. State things that are factually true, and let others interpret them as they see fit without committing yourself to a not-honest opinion on the observations.

@SS

You don't get modkilled if you're "unvoted", only if you never voted at all.

@Balki

guak has actually made a fair few posts. I'm surprised you missed them as I thought you'd be zoning in on anything he made. He's even got some actual content in a couple.

Also; "Trust me on this, I'll explain later" is Maniac's modus operandi in pretty much every single game.

@Y2K... hmm, you are right, I am wrong, the list is just a bunch of factual statements.
Reading it I really thought there was some level of judgement happening, but re-reading it, I noticed that yeah, he does explicitly avoid making judgements on anyone.
You might be on to something.

HR says (p10) that mafia influence every lynch. Yes, but their influence is by far the strongest on D1, when they have all the information they need, and town knows nothing.

HR says that anyone can be called anti-town at some point. I don't think so. Not in the games I've played.

HR says that voting for people you don't think is scum is terrible. I don't think anyone ever has any idea who scum is D1. Thus my vote is best put where it might encourage someone to contribute to the town's effort. wjessop's continued insistence on being useless suggests to me that he will never be any help to us.