City laws carry little punishment. Doofus.

I think gun advocates cheer every time one their toys kills someone. Sociopaths.

Anyway the frc getting shot up is the matter of chickens coming home to roost.

What a terrible thing to say, Putin33.

IMHO, education is what curtails violence. I know of few educated, violent people and most violent people I know are not considerably educated. I believe that no discussion of gun control is complete without covering education. It's interesting to note that most people who grow up around guns, around a tradition of responsible gun ownership, are seldom violent. I hate to sound preachy, but I feel that at-risk youths are best moved out of an environment where they will feel encouraged to participate in gang membership or gun violence.

,sociopaths'...'chuckens coming home to roost'...I.e. they deserved it , huh Putin. WHO here is the fucking sociopath?!? The Commie asshole that thinks people DESERVE to die for their beliefs. GREAT posts Putin...you have revealed the repulsive truth we already knew about you.

FIRST of all...

Putin, krellin--you both sound like squalling children and have no place in such a discussion with that sort of tact.

(And if you doubt that point...anyone who uses "Doofus" to puctuate their argument has all the subtlety and intellectual integrity of an 8-year old throwing a temper-tantrum...though at least MOST 8-year olds GROW OUT OF IT.)

Shame on you both.

I don't think Putin33 is an asshole, surely he is entitled to have an opinion, and even if his opinion is disagreeable to you, to call him an asshole isn't fair as peer pressure like this will stop the individual (in the long run anyway) from fully utilising their free speech and crush their individuality, leading to mass dull conformity as dictated by the masses.

You must be new.

Relatively so

Now, in regards to the matter at hand--

Stressedlines, we do not hear about national security successes or the Secret Service successfully escorting Obama here or there...

Because in such instances, it is the FAILURES that draw notice.

When JFK is shot, or when 9/11 occurs, THEN notice is taken, even though, in regards to both presidential and national security, the US overall is one of the safest nations in the world.

I'd argue the same applies to gun control here--

We don't hear of gun control's great successes, because such successes are SILENT successes.

But when something like this happens, it's an all-too-audible failure.



Gun control works--MOST of the time.

Every other Western nation has figured out as much.

So do not let the isolated, noisy failures in the system appear to be the rule rather than what they are--namely, and thankfully, the exception.

@Socrates:

First--welcome. :)

Second--look at the rest of Putin's body of work...and I'll leave it there for you to judge all on your own. ;)

Third...

A win percentage of 70%??? WOW, how dissatisfied can you be?! :D

^ MadMarx used to have a 100 % percent win record :P

Ha the over under of a day was over. And those of you who had stressed lines over krellin are big winnes

and to answer StressedLines usual boneheaded post, Washington DC is a metro ride away from a gun mecca in Virginia.

Thank you Obi, haha thank you, I shall wait and read more of these enlightening forums and then try and weigh in. I've only played 7 games so it's not that impressive, I'll be satisfied when I've played more games and against the top players too :)

Socrates, if you start a thread advertising a game you want to play (passworded so crazy resigners/multi's/bad players don't get in) i would love to throw away some points and play with you :)

"To do is to be"-Sartre; "Do Be Do Be Do"-Sinatra; "Scooby Dooby Do"-Scooby Do; "Yaba Daba Doo!"-Fred Flintstone
"To be is to do"-Socrates;

Ah thanks Fortress Door, shall make one now! And NigeeBaby, Scooby Doo's is obviously the best!

And I would have got away with it as well if it hadn't been for you meddling kids

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/gun-possession-use-laws/washington-dc.htmv

Those oh-so-harsh gun laws in DC carry a maximum penalty of a $1000 fine or one year in prison. What a deterrent.

that was my point, that Gun laws dont work. You will never be able to ban them on a Federal level, so what the fuck is the point of trying to make them for one city and take the guns out of the honest people who simply want to defend themselves from the idiots like this man.

@Stressedlines:

Did you see my post?

Most of the time they do work, but we don't hear of such instances mostly because, well, when the security procedures work, it's quiet and not a story...

The few times they break, like here, THEN it's a noisy failure.

So you can't say they don't work just because you don't hear of them working all the time...that's the POINT, if you're not hearing anything, then they're doing their job.

unless there is an across the board federal law, which there will not be, then it wont work Obi. Some idiot wants to kill people in DC, but cant get a gun there, then he can go to kentucky and get one easy.

99.999999999999999999999% of people who have guns LEGALLY, use them the way they are intended.
Any laws simply punish those people.

"unless there is an across the board federal law, which there will not be, then it wont work Obi."

Well, I would agree partially and say that there SHOULD be some across the board federal laws...again, I think that some things should be reserved to states and counties (again, owning and openly carrying certain types of firearms in public might well work for Wyoming but not at all for urban, densely-packed areas like Los Angeles) but yes, there needs to be more across-the-bard law, I think.

And I'll leave that part be as we've both made our points clear and clearly oppose each other seemingly irrevocably on that point, so rather than retread the issue I'll tread right along...

"Some idiot wants to kill people in DC, but cant get a gun there, then he can go to kentucky and get one easy."

Again, a reason I'd favor stricter or at least more universal gun control laws, excepting again certain staples of areas (ie, hunting rifles for states and counties that are "open area" and hunting grounds, as it were) in general.

"99.999999999999999999999% of people who have guns LEGALLY, use them the way they are intended.
Any laws simply punish those people."

Most people who drive do so legally--

Yet we still have laws in place to give speed limits and other driving restrictions.
Does this inhibit the rights of the many to go 55 in a 50 zone if they so wish?
Yes.
Might they be able to go 55 safely?
Quite possibly?
Does the good of laws to protect against the dangerous, irresponsible few help here?
Yes.

I'd argue the same goes for gun control--

I have heard I know not how many times the old song and dance that most gun owners are responsible.

YES.
I GET IT.
I EVEN AGREE WITH YOU THERE.
HENCE WHY I DO NOT ADVOCATE TAKING AWAY ALL GUNS EVER.

But the sad fact is that in any society the rotten few sometimes spoil it for the good many and thus warrant laws to protect the greater good.

After all, MOST do not rape or murder, but we still have have laws in place both to try and prevent such occurrences and to legally prosecute those who break the law and DO threaten to harm the many good people that there are.

If everyone was as responsible a gun owner as you, Stressedlines, I would agree wholeheartedly with your position.

And when you can tell me all--not most, not 99%, not 99.99%, but ALL--of gun owners are equally responsible, then I will agree that better gun control is not then needed.

But for now, there is a minority of rotten apples, and while that tragically means a restriction of rights to everyone, that restriction is of a protective nature and warranted not by any desire to control or harm you, but to protect against those who would act in a destructive manner AGAINST you, or another innocent member of society.

obi - there is a major flaw in your logic here. Yes, silent successes go unnoticed obviously. However, how can you assume that the successes are the result of gun control laws as opposed to other factors mentioned in this and every other post on this topic? 99.999% of the successes happen because most people aren't psycho.

I am the government, and I am here to help you. : )

Ive done arguing with antigovernment paranoids. Go back to your bunkers. Stop waxing poetic about the constitutiin when you think everybody is out to get you. Gun laws would work if states implemented them. But cities have weak punishment powers and are usually surrounded by paranoud gun nut states.