Thank you mods.

This is fucking outrageous.

Sarg has been online numerous times and has chosen not to fill out orders.

Why on earth is this game paused? Nobody voted for it?

The moderators are starting to do this consistently and I find it bothersome.

This is a clear example of moderators choosing a side. Should they not be impartial?

Lando - There are 3 pieces of information you are not privy to that make this a specific case.

1) Sarg apparently emailed the mods a few days ago and asked for a replacement, but the mods were very busy and did not get to addressing his request (or his request did not seem imminent to them - either way)

This is from the publicly available global tab:

08:18 PM (yebellz): The game has been paused. The NMR from Sarg seemed to be eminent. He might be planning to CD from this game. He actually asked me a day ago to replace him, but I had to turn him down due to lack of time.

Babak mentioned that he had a replacement lined up. Let us know if you need any assistance with getting that taken care of or if there is any trouble getting things unpaused.



2) There was a series of in-game messages between me and Sarg where he made clear he wanted to leave. He asked me for the password, he then said he wanted to leave the site. I have edited out elements of his messages that I feel he would want kept private, but have kept the relevant points. So in essence, he DID ask to be replaced. This goes back to Monday afternoon.


Mon 07 PM Spring, 2001: [China]:What was the password for this game, please?

Mon 08 PM Spring, 2001: [You]:what do you need the password for? seems like a bit of an odd request =P

it was "xxxxxxxxxxxxx" without the quotes.

Mon 08 PM Spring, 2001: [China]:I'm deciding whether to leave this game and if I do, will need the password to give to my replacement so that no one else has to go to the trouble of organising it.

Mon 08 PM Spring, 2001: [You]:Sarg... the next replacement would be the person 'pledged' on the waitlist. which is hellalt.

If you truly are thinking of leaving, I can take care of it so there are no issues or food-fights on the forum.

That said... WTF? Why the hell would you want to leave? Are you upset by the comments on the Conversationist threat? Please don't tell me you're thinking of leaving the site over such a small flicker-war (get it, a small flame-war? haha).

Seriously... why would you want to leave =(

Mon 08 PM Spring, 2001: [China]:Yes, I'm considering leaving the site, at least temporarily. Either way, I think I should leave this game.

Mon 08 PM Spring, 2001: [China]:Not just because of the whole Conservationist problem. Other reasons too, xxx
x
x
x
x
x
x
x... I just feel disappointed with the whole website right now and especially with ... xxxxxx
x
x

Sorry if that is a rant. I can't play this game anymore, I was really enjoying it but I can't participate.

Mon 08 PM Spring, 2001: [You]:Sarg!!! can you tell me why?

I hope it is not over the forum conversation. Seriously not worth it. Please take the time to reconsider before making any rash decisions Sarg.

You are an integral part of this site and a valued dip-friend for many of us. You know if I had left the site over small little tiffs like this, how many times I'd have to retire? lol.

I hope whatever it is that is making you want to leave is not serious and I sincerely hope you realize how much folks do value you as not just a great player, but as a valued member of this hobby.

07:21 PM [You]:Sarg... you there? please don't NMR.

Note, our messages on Mon at 8pm were cross-posted. I absolutely expected him to put in orders and play a few more turns as he did send in-game messages to global tab:

Tue 11 AM [China]:When I read my copy of the Kenyan Traveller, I open it up by pressing the 'messages' tab at the bottom. It allows me to get a fuller view of the paper as if it were a broadsheet. :)

So it is partially my fault for not taking his remark that he intended to leave seriously enough initially. in my defense, I've barely logged into the site over the past 24 hours.


Lastly, I do thank you Lando for your alertness and your desire to keep the rules uniformly imposed, I think that is essential. However, there are always exceptions and that is why moderators are chosen so that they can make judgement calls based on the evidence the rest of us sometimes do not see.

I wasn't privy to all the information. And I see I was out of line in this situation.

I wanted to make the point that I do not believe moderators should pause games unless there are extenuating circumstances and it seems agreed upon by a majority in the game. I will let this issue drop.

As I expressed, I agree with Lando. Mods should not interfere with games, if someone is NMRing, or CDing, that's part of the game.

Replacing a player, in a game, which has in-game messaging is also a non sense, since the game already has a dynamics which was built up by those very same players. It like bringing a sober guy into a drinking game 2 hours later. You have to tell all the stupid jokes again, and actually noone will enjoy the party anymore.

Having a new player is having a new game. We can vote cancel, or draw, but mods have nothing to do with any of the games until it's played by the rules. And NMRing is allowed as I know.

Thank you Lando.

I do think there were 'extenuating' circumstances here. namely that those who heard from Sarg that he intended to leave and want a replacement were either too hopeful that he would change his mind or unfortunately did not take him seriously enough. That includes me as can be seen from my exchange with him above.

Sarg - if you are reading this, you should know everyone I've talked to still hopes you change your mind and decide to come back to the site. Even if you decide not this game, at least the site as a whole ;) Good luck in your endeavors.

Roka - since this conversation has now moved from our game to here. I will paste the same reply I sent you when you sent me the above message in an in-game press.

reply to rokakoma:

08:56 PM [You]:I can value your opinion on this point, but much like the rest of life, our choices are between good and better options or bad and worst options. Its rarely between 'good' and 'bad' options. that would make life easy ;)

in this case, we have a bad and worst case. it is bad to replace him. but it is worst to have an NMR or a CD. even worst to just cancel. So long story short - no one's life is changed or hurt by this game continuing... its a game after all. but of the options presented to us at this point, i hope to try to find the best one possible.

With the fact that he specifically asked 3 different people, a mod, me, and another player here (not PacRus who would gain the most from a replacement) as early as Monday at 8pm that he desired to be replaced, I think the choice of replacing him is the best one.

But like I said, there are other valid points of view.

I have also heard that he plans to leave the site. Unfortunate, to say the least.

And I agree with Babak in this situation. Seems to be fair to pause and I wastoo quick to judge with my response.

Hello all,

Please see the message I sent to Global. Geo and I are currently drafting something for the forum.

I want to clear something up about running tournaments that has been an issue more than once lately. Tournaments aren't just games you call tournaments. They need to be clearly defined, well planned, discussed among the participants, moderators need to be notified before the start (if you're going to be using us or giving points). But above all, every player must agree to the terms set aside by the tournament director before the games start and nothing can be changed after unless every player agrees again.

The 100-GR World Game cannot be considered a tournament, if only because the rules were not displayed before players joined, but also for many of the reasons above. (The same goes for Sargmacher's Gunboat Series).

A request to force-pause, force-draw, or force-CD cannot be granted if even one player objects. And we must hear from all members active in the game before taking any action. We received opposition to this game's pause in an email (which is the only form of communication we consider valid) and therefore cannot intervene.

I apologise for the disruption. Lately, favours asked of the mods such as pausing/unpausing/CDing have been granted without being given due diligence in contacting every member of the game. We will be working hard to make sure this happens from now on.

Geofram and abgemacht, thank you for taking the extra time to deliberate on this game. First, allow me to agree to the stipulation that this game is not a tournament. And second, I agree that some folks within the game disagree with the force pause and thus I fully accept the mod-decision on un-pausing the game. However I do have a couple of questions if you guys could help clear up.

1) Did or did not Sarg send a message to the mods asking to be replaced?

2) The messages within the game between Sarg and myself (You can view them I presume) which I also posted on the forum above, do these not at all constitute an intent to leave and asking for a replacement?

3) Has Sag been contacted recently to ask him to state clearly his intent to leave or not leave this particular game?

4) If Sarg does not reply, and he is likely to NMR, is the only recourse left to those in the game to wait until he 'naturally' CDs? What other recourse would we have to replace him?

Thanks again for your time guys.

I think it's a little ridiculous that nobody had a problem with this when PE was replaced in the same game. This has clearly been Babak's game and everyone pledged to abide by his rules. Saying that this was not made clear beforehand is simply untrue.

1) Ye sent an email to Sarg, which he never responded to. Both Geo and I looked and found no record of Sarg asking to be replaced.

2) No. I'm not going to set a precedent to look through private messages to divine a player's request. It is their responsibility to email us.

3) Please see point 1.

4) If he does not request to leave, then you must wait for him to CD. This is the way it has always been. I'd be happy to have a forum discussion to see if people things this is a good policy, but I doubt it will reach a resolution in time for this game.

@jmo

PE asks the mods to be replaced. That makes a big difference.

Nowhere did Geo or I see everyone agree to give Babak TD power in this game.

Babak, sorry for any influence I may have left on this mess. And to everyone in the game as well.

It was actually the emails. I came home to several basically saying "why'd you pause?!"
This thread served as a place to tell everyone at once and clear up some tournament stuff.

@abge and Geo, nowhere have I ever seen any statement from the moderators saying that in order to pause an invitational game with each player signing a pledge to play by the honor system the creator of the game would have to specifically define the powers he would have during the game. In this case it also seems like a player is going to nmr due to influences outside of the game, an argument in a forum, which would be metagaming and spiteful. I just point that out to make sure everything relating to this pause was considered, including the fact that the players asking for the unpause had no problem with PE's replacement. I appreciate you looking into everything and sorry if I sound rude, it just annoys me to see a good game ruined by an unrelated argument.

Invitational games are not given special status. It is the players' responsibility to ensure a high-quality game, not the mod's responsibility. As far as I can tell, people agreed to finalize orders, not to give Babak power to force-pause games.

The fact that people didn't have problem early is irrelevant.

Sorry about messing that one up. I really should have checked that more carefully before I acted.

By the way, Sarg asked me via PM to replace him. I misinterpreted the situation.

"By the way, Sarg asked me via PM to replace him. I misinterpreted the situation." Okay abge, there is the request for replacement you were asking for...

Babak has 2 willing replacements lined up.

Especially considering that yebellz's account does not have the disclaimer "don't pm me with mod business" it's pretty reasonable to assume anyone who clicked would think sending a pm request to him would be adequate for a replacement.

Yebellz might have been trying to do Babak/Sarg a favour, but when it came up tonight, we had no knowledge of the PM. This is why we're very clear with each other that ONLY communication through [email protected] is accepted. If you didn't email it, consider it null and void.

Also, it wouldn't have mattered. Sarg asking to be put into CD would not have changed the outcome of a request for force pause.

hmm, perhaps i should have been allowed into this game and this wouldnt have happened. HAHAHAHAHAHA.

See what happens when santa is shut out

Chaos

What the hell is all this?

Gosh. I don't turn up on the site within a 15 hour period and suddenly everything comes crashing down? What kind of police state has Web Dip turned in to?

Wow. Really, wow. The potential of me NMRing in a Babak game (heaven forbid) has the mods running round in circles, emailing me, and creating threads and force pausing a game?

I've never seen this kind of fuss over anything before and I don't understand why it has been created here.

Why has everyone got an opinion on something they know nothing about? What a fucking bunch of hypocrites. I didn't even realise I was going to NMR - I have more respect for a game on this website than that - or at least I did before all this bullshit I see when I log on.

How is it that everyone from Lando Calrissian to Babak thinks themselves able to speak on my behalf?

"There are 3 pieces of information you are not privy to that make this a specific case.

1) Sarg apparently emailed the mods a few days ago and asked for a replacement, but the mods were very busy and did not get to addressing his request (or his request did not seem imminent to them - either way)"

This is absolutely bullshit. Babak speaks of information Lando isn't privy too? Babak is talking out of his ass right now. I never emailed any mod on this issue. How the hell does Babak think he knows this and then dares to think that he has more information on this than Lando? Why would Babak have more information about what the mods have been emailed than other normal players on this website?

I say again, Why would Babak have more information about what the mods have been emailed than other normal players on this website??


There are fundamental flaws here. I wanted to take a hitaus from this website from the way it has been run in the ground. I said this to Babak. This did not mean I was going to arbitrarily quit my current games, for goodness sake. And to act in this way is completely shocking and only makes me wish I had not logged on at all. What a joke.

I say again, Why would Babak have more information about what the mods have been emailed than other normal players on this website??


This is really important. Please can someone say why on earth Babak thinks he can say what information the mods have?

Right now, I really wonder why I donated to this website if this is the way I am completely disrespected.

I am disgusted.

ha wait you didnt even NMR and this happened?