President Eden.

I mean, the guy was a COMPUTER! I don't care about his policies in post apocalyptic US... the whole 'not being a human being' ranks him tops in overrated presidents.

abge... I'm actually tickled I just indirectly called you a tool... but not as tickled as doing it directly... you tool :P

+1 fortknox. Fallout is amazing.

Actually, I'm a little disappointed in you.

Eden? Really?

Do you know how hard it would be to make a computer like that? How is it overrated?

Well, our own PResident Eden is most certainly overrated.

gameID=46530
gameID=51878
gameID=45801
gameID=48256
gameID=47494
gameID=37005
gameID=46517
gameID=45247
gameID=29327
gameID=68136

See that? That's all the games I've won by 1906, which I think just about anyone would agree is pretty fucking fast. There's 10 of them, which happens to be the total of all games (at all win dates) by fortknox and Draugnar. Combined.

http://hongpong.com/files/GADDAFI-FAIL.jpg

Reagan, Washington, Kennedy.

Yeah, I'm going to agree with Putin.

Although, it was pretty nice of Washington to not just keep being president. He should get kudos for that.

Wholeheartedly disagree with the pick of Washington, he was invaluable in the founding of the nation.

on the other hand...

Jefferson, Terrible Foreign policy decisions, ran roughshod over the constitution, drove the country (further?) into economic hardship. He gets credit for the Louisiana Purchase which fell into his lap.

Reagan and Kennedy are both overrated, but certainly not Washington. As abgemacht said, probably the best thing he did as president was leave, but while he was there he set up the circumstances for the development of the astounding political stability the United States enjoys to this very day. Over two hundred years of constitutional government is quite an achievement, and none of it would have happened without that man.

Do you think?

He didn't play a big part in the constitution, did he? Was there really no other competent military leader? Would Adams not been good as the first president?

Washington understood (along with Hamilton) that term limits were destabilizing but he was tired and never wanted to be President for a 2nd term to begin with. Jefferson similarly was more interested in retiring than public service.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/27552322

Uh oh... I think we hurt President Eden's feelings. Wait! Can a supercomputer *have* feelings?

I forgot which federalist papers did Washington write? Which articles of the Constitution? Which proposals for representative government? He didn't even write his own speeches ascribed to him. He was a useful (senile) figure head. Every movement needs a symbol, I suppose.

He played a huge part in the constitution, he didnt draft it or take part in debates, but he presided over the convention and his presence alone gave the body (which was questionably legitimate) added legitimacy. If you read contemporary newspapers people talked at length about Washington bringing order and security to the states. In addition the office of President was formed with him in mind.

Washington was essential to the first presidency, the resigning of his arms to congress in 1783 showed the convention that power could be entrusted in one man if that man was Washington.

I just analyzed PE's list of games.

Every game was PPSC (strike 1)
7 of them were live games (strike 2)
5 of them had CDs at the end of the game (strike 3).

Sorry, PE, but until you can show me a non-live WTA without a CD won so quickly, you are overrated. I don't play PPSC (or live games), but if I did I'm sure I could get your win percentage too. But I chose to play the realgame of Diplomacy and not rely on CDs and storng seconds who are happy to help me get a win.

I'm not a robot
Without emotions
I'm not what you see...

I've come to help you
With your problems
So we can be free

I'm not a hero!
I'm not a savior!
Forget what you know...

I'm just a man whose
Circumstances
Went beyond his control,
Beyond my control...

1. You can't even show me one even without the qualifications, let alone with one
2. You've seen me in non-live games, I certainly am every bit as good non-live
3. If I bothered to go through and calculate non-live stats I'm sure I'd do just as well or better than you
4. http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/original/000/146/580/1310252793001.png?1310254363
5. http://media.adamdodson.org/var/albums/Religion/Fuck%20Thy%20Police.jpg?m=1276762669

"I forgot which federalist papers did Washington write? "

I'm sorry, why does that matter?

"Which articles of the Constitution?"

Again, what exactly does that matter? Article Two was drafted with him in mind though.

Bottom line, was he an effective president. Without a doubt. He held a union what was in danger of being ripped apart by world politics, economic hardship, and regional rivalries. Somehow the tenuous nature of the first 20 years of American history have been lost. It seems to be portrayed as a golden age and a victory lap after the revolution. This simply wasn't the case, and leadership fell on Washington when he entered office, and he succeeded in stabilizing the young union.

OK, so you can quote Mr. Roboto by Styx. But your other arguments still fail. I want to see six non-live WTA wins from you. Hell, six WTA wins in general would be fine, live or non. Do you have that many? I do. And I'm a carebear player at the end, preferring to draw with my faithful allies even if I can stab them and get the win...

I wouldn't say it added legitimacy because they still barely managed to ratify the document. Washington had thin skin and couldn't stomach criticism in the press. Probably why he enthusiastically supported the Alien and Sedition Acts, rounding up Jeffersonians, and hated political parties. We succeeded despite Washington, not because of him. But as Adams famously said, "There was a time when northern, middle and southern states...expressly agreed to blow the trumpet of panegyric in concert to cover and dissemble all faults and errors; to represent every defeat as a victory and every retreat as an advancement in order to make that character (Washington) popular with all parties and all places and with all persons, as a center of union, as the central stone in the geometrical arch."

Well people are saying our 'experiment' with representative government wouldn't be possible without Washington, but as you even say he had nothing to do with it aside from being a unifying figure (if even much that, since when he was President the country was being pulled apart at the seams by different sectional and ideological factions).

In what sense was the Union stable under Washington?

Yeah, seriously. Wasn't the country going nuts during Washington's terms trying to figure out where to take the country. I was under the impression everyone was fighting.

"But I chose to play the realgame of Diplomacy"
A real game of Diplomacy is live. So your so called "real" diplomacy with 2 day turns, isn't real, its a completely extended version so that players have more time to communicate. If you want real diplomacy, where talking matters. You play 5-10 minute phases. No time for the retreat and builds, and then go back to diplomacy. You don't take months to finish one game.

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/2/18/128794379677984562.jpg

Come back when you can't get trolled by me.. (of all people)

I have four (three press). You haven't justified why live games don't count, though.

gameID=60015
gameID=59948
gameID=47168
gameID=48820

Adding live games, it's up to 21.

He was the only of first 4 presidents that didn't face real prospects of whole states seceding from the Union as Adams did with the southern states, Jefferson did with Massachusetts in 1800, Madison with New England in 1814.

I said you could show me live games. Your first 10 didn't count because *every* one of them was PPSC.

Although I will make the argument that a person with time on their hands has a better shot at winning live games just by waiting for the inevitable CDs (half the 10 you listed showed resigns at the end of them, one had more than half the board resigned).