Forum
A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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swordsman3003 (14048 D(G))
07 Sep 11 UTC
Ever seen a 17/17 finish in a gunboat?
Just curious. If there is one on record can I get a link?
5 replies
Open
iPillage (0 DX)
04 Sep 11 UTC
Wonderful World of Warfare: A WorldDip game for talkers.
Hello everyone! I just created a world game in hopes that we can get a fun, clean game together. The meek and anti-social need not apply.

See ya on the battlefield!
gameID=67107
2 replies
Open
Lopt (102 D)
07 Sep 11 UTC
Off-topic: Browser Game
I've been playing a little browser game that lets you built up a squad of soldiers and customize them in order for them to fight automatically against other opponents.
It's quite nifty overall if you get into it and only take a couple of minutes each day.

1 reply
Open
ezpickins (113 D)
06 Sep 11 UTC
anonymous
here's a secret game http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=67296
0 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
06 Sep 11 UTC
Credibility issues after stabbing
Hey everyone,
I had a little issue I was curious about on stabbing: is that really the path to winning this game? I always find it a waste of good faith-building in an alliance to resort to simple terrain nicking at some point when you have so many more options (see follow up):
63 replies
Open
reinking3 (0 DX)
06 Sep 11 UTC
Big game 100 buy-in
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=67276

100 buy in anonymous players, classic, 1 day phases. Check it out
0 replies
Open
jackarnell (100 D)
06 Sep 11 UTC
5 min live game join please!!
id for 5min live game gameID=67284
0 replies
Open
msully4321 (100 D)
30 Aug 11 UTC
People missing orders
Argh! The first two games I play on here, two powers failed to submit Spring 1901 orders, which really fucks things up. :( I wish there was some sort of penalty for this or that webdiplomacy would send emails when a game starts and when you have orders due...
63 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
05 Sep 11 UTC
Our government owns a Quarter Million Homes
The fact that Congress owns a quarter million private residences is proof beyond a doubt that capitalism didn't cause the financial meltdown, government did.

11 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
06 Sep 11 UTC
The Budget Control Act
If you don't know what is in this act that was a key part of the budget deal passed in late July then you aren't an informed citizen of our democracy.
6 replies
Open
King Atom (100 D)
05 Sep 11 UTC
Just Going To Say This:
Why is it that everyone here seems to be terrible at this game?
All the forum posters (myself included) never seem to have more than 120 D Wouldn't the more experienced spend more time talking?
28 replies
Open
Putin33 (111 D)
06 Sep 11 UTC
Canada opposes water as a human right
Seriously, wtf.

http://www.canada.com/mobile/iphone/story.html?id=b65b35fd-477f-4956-98f4-c17a46fe3e26&k=40211
41 replies
Open
guak (3381 D)
06 Sep 11 UTC
Persia needed in Ancient Med.
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=66137&msgCountryID=3

It is not too late, not an enviable position but a nice challenge. Definitely needed for the game to regain a semblance of balance.
2 replies
Open
fiedler (1293 D)
06 Sep 11 UTC
WANTED! NEW ENGLAND WANTED!
Opportunity to take charge of a well placed England with strong possibilities for growth and excellent remuneration offered from inevitable draw.
1 reply
Open
Geofram (130 D(B))
01 Jun 11 UTC
**OFFICIAL - Summer Gunboat News**
Really sorry about the delay with game three. It will happen as soon as we figure out the technical issue with replacing this one player. I think we're going to forgo the 4th game (round 2 only has 3 anyway), that way the first leg will be done by end-June, leaving July for the second leg and August for the finals.
375 replies
Open
Riphen (198 D)
06 Sep 11 UTC
So..did we find out..
To all in the Public Press World Game shit storm that was canceled.

Did we find out before the cancel who was accused? And if not what was the reason for not giving us the names. Or did they just Cancel it?
0 replies
Open
baumhaeuer (245 D)
05 Sep 11 UTC
Epic youtube comment inside
(not by me)
5 replies
Open
DurpDurp (100 D)
06 Sep 11 UTC
I am confused.
Before bashing, yes I have read the help section.
5 replies
Open
diplomat554 (2104 D)
06 Sep 11 UTC
Please draw this game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=67199
Whatever Germany is trying to accomplish, this is still a dead draw. Turkey, please hit the button. Otherwise, mods, please draw this.
81 replies
Open
DeathMuncher (0 DX)
06 Sep 11 UTC
Panama canal
Ok, this may sound dumb, but I can't figure it out. Does central America on the world board have a panama canal? It doesn't have a costal designation so is it possible to move from the east side of south America to the west side through there?
5 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
04 Sep 11 UTC
Dip Smack Fantasy Footballers!!!!
DON'T FORGET: Live Draft today (Sunday, 9-4-11) 4PM EST.
7 replies
Open
Lando Calrissian (100 D(S))
05 Sep 11 UTC
Maltese Summer/Gone with the Wind (comment thread)
5 replies
Open
SirLoseALot (441 D)
05 Sep 11 UTC
Help - moderator check War of Nations-2
seems like some unspoken help happening:
aust helps Germany
Austr helps Turkey
hmmmm. . .and on first tries
1 reply
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
30 Jul 11 UTC
Storytime With Obi
Well, krellin posted a story, and asked for honest opinions, and I gave mine...and was askedn, then by fiedler and a few others to submit something of mine, then. This is part of a larger work I'm working on, so please bear that in mind, this is NOT meant to be a stand-alone piece...I'll be posting the section I have here in three parts, plus a short "Prologue" just to explain what this is all about. Critique, enjoy, be hoenst...and God help you all. ;)
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abgemacht (1076 D(G))
30 Jul 11 UTC
Fantastic!
uclabb (589 D)
30 Jul 11 UTC
So no more than 500 words total, right?
fiedler (1293 D)
30 Jul 11 UTC
Storytime weekly! I've never been so happy!
Well, possibly I will be even happier when the maestro actually posts something.....
Must we really go over every fence and through every stall?
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
30 Jul 11 UTC
OK, so, before I post the first part, a bit of backstory/exposition for this story, since we're coming in a ways in...

First of all, this is NOT a Shakespeare piece.

I'm going to repeat that.

This is NOT Shakespeare, there are no men in funny tights and skulls and ear poison, no daggers, and no Elizabethan phrasings that everyone looks at and says "Dude, quit being pretentious."

;)

But actually, pretentiousness and the illusory "refined" nature of people and things is part of what this story is about. (So, yes, there could not be a better person on the site to write about folks being and sounding pretentious...you write what you know and what you are, after all...) ;)

So, without giving a long plot summary, the short-short-short version of this:

We have, at the start of this section, four people in their 20s.

-Antoine H. Alexandre, and no, that's not a typo with the spelling of "Alexander," that's intentional...Antoine's family is entirely French going generations back as they came to America, and our dear Mr. Antoine is overly proud of that fact, and considers himself, then, to be an expert on all things French amongst the group. He's a rather bohemian person by nature, sort of a manic depressive, and somewhat effeminate, or at least more so than his friends Lance (who is not appearing in this selection, so he's really Sir Not-So-Appearing-In-This-Story) and Richard. As we join him at this point in time, Antoine, who wants to be the next great poet...or musician..or painter...or...yeah, the point is, he dabbles a lot, and isn't too focused, and as we meet him at this point in time, he's been spending a fair amount of time with the three people below. Antoine is one of the two or three main-main-main characters in the work, and ismeant to be somewhat Eugene Onegin-esque, for those who have read the poem or heard the opera (if you haven't please do yourself a favor and do so, both are AMAZING) and is also something of a drifter at heart; this is a person who'll get up and go for a walk at 2am just to get out of the house and do something and maybe talk to someone, even a bum on the street or a cop wondering why the hell someone's out at 2am walking and talking to bums.

Richard's sort of a foil for Antoine in that he actually is a practical person and doesn't have his head both in the clouds and up his ass, and at this point in time serves no real other point of purpose or emphasis necessary for the scene here. so let's move on.

Christina is the female lead of this entire thing, and is a big reason why this whole "Prologue" bit is needed, because she has a ton of backstory to get through here. Her full name is Christina Samanta Marquez-Smith, and she was born right in the middle of Mexico. She's an immigrant, having come to the country in her teens, and that's never left her in full, because she was, as you might guess, mocked to a degree in her new surroundinghs because of her initially-poor ability to speak English; this was and is damaging for Christina, as she's very much a perfectionist at heart, and is used to being the best and on top of the heap, and so this reversal for her due to little else than a cultural shift sort of sticks with her, and race relations are, again, another major theme of the book, so her national and ethnic identity isn't nebulous here. She's also the kind of person you once knew or knew of that can somehow do everything under the sun and still generally come out as Ms. Perfect in the end of it all, and she's an accomplished singer with a double-major in Political Science and Music Theory with a minor in Biology, and as we meet her at this point in time she, Haley--to be mentioned in a moment--and Richard have been involved in a LA production of "Carmen,' with Christina in the titular role, Haley in the role of Frasquita (a fellow village maiden Carmen knows) and Richard as one of the people working on the sets, and the date of Opening Night is growing nearer and nearer. Antoine has known them for fair amount of time now, but is not, as of yet, involved with the production, and he has talked to Christina the most by far in this group, and iot's really for her sake that he's hanging around them at this point in time.

Haley is Christina's white-as-white-can-be friend, and the two generally get along well, though race does play an issue, as there are places Christina's Mexican heritage is more welcome than Haley's whitebread appearance, and vice versa. She is, again, also a singer, and, again, is also in that production of "Carmen." Haley is considerably more bubbly and cheerful and outgoing a person than Christina, who's witty and can be warm but can just as easily be ice-cold, and Haley's a typical Facebooking, iPod-listening person for her age, whereas Christina--for reasons shown throughout--tries far harder to try and be more of a "classical" sort of a person, something Antoine appreciates and Richard despises. Both are relatively good-looking, but Haley's a jaw-dropper, and knows it, and isn't shy about that fact (as much as she pretends to be) and isn't beyond using that to her advantage.

This is set in Los Angeles--because, hey, it's the one city I can almost sort of write about--in present day, and we are in the summer.

I've probably left out stuff, but if I include anymore for a "quick prologue," then I might as well make it a full part of the story.

So, Part 1 of what will be a 3-Part story (to break this up) of...whatever I decide to title this. ;)

Enjoy, Critique, and Thanks.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
30 Jul 11 UTC
PART 1:

The easiest way in which to distinguish those who simply visited the Café de Don Juan from those who frequented it could be detected by the manner in which the name of the locale itself was pronounced; those who just came and went for a drink or stumbled in as a tourist, would generally pronounce it the “Café de Don ‘Wahn,’” giving the general Spanish pronunciation and thinking no more of it. To those who frequented the place, however, far from their being one, standard pronunciation, there would be a variety, and so the more varied and potentially-pretentious-sounding the pronunciation of the name, the more frequent a patron one might suppose the speaker to be. The “Wahn” pronunciation of “Juan” was common, of course, and in turn was the source of a great many debates between patrons who, being more partial to their English than their Spanish and preferring the Byronic and Romantic, would unapologetically pronounce it “Joo-ahn,” instantly starting an argument with the nearest Spanish (and considering this was Los Angeles, this generally wasn’t too hard to do.) Not to be outdone, there was as well a small but rather vocal Armenian minority, generally consisting of a cadre of regulars who preferred the tables at the very back of the café, those seated closest to the antique mirrors that decorated that portion of the room, who took things a step further by elongating the long vowel sound of “o” in “Don,” and should anyone dare to utter that portion of the name otherwise in their presence, a cold shoulder and an colder, haughtier laugh would issue forth from one of the patrons, followed by an immediate correction and, in most cases, an immediate war of words.

It was an oddity, this war of words over something so simple as the name of the place, but it had been that very same oddity which had distinguished the Café de Don Juan from the many other competitors in consumer-rich Los Angeles, and it was this reputation of the café as a place for debate and discourse among the self-appointed aesthetes and elites of the aesthetic and elitist worlds that had garnered the café enough publicity that it had somehow managed to stay in business for all these many years. (How many years, exactly, wasn’t quite clear, and this, again, was a familiar source of contention amongst those who made the café their general home-away-from-home or hideaway, or both.) It was supposed that the owner of the café—another slight source of contention, as it there was a father, son, and friend of the father all involved to one degree or another, and the exact identity of who amongst the three was the owner was not clear—might be able to clear up these controversies, and had been called on many occasions by over-active, often slightly-drunken guests as well as under-active, bored reporters on slow news days to clear up these matters, but it was perhaps the only source of general agreement that this would never occur. After all, the entire breadth of fame and subsequent fortune that the site and its owner, whoever that might be, enjoyed was due to these sort of controversies and the image that word of mouth painted of the place, as certainly the image of the site itself was far from alluring.

It was located just at the area where the bright lights of the Theatre District dimmed and the smog of Skid Row converged, and so the best and worst of both worlds seemed to have somehow spawned this innocuous place on the border between the two. The area immediately surrounding the Café de Don Juan was, it was also generally agreed, not the sort of place that one simply walks up to, and certainly not at night. The exterior was marked by a paintjob of grey with red and gold trim, which had coated the café at its initial opening and had never been given a touch-up and so was peeled and chipped in enough places that these might as well have been their own patterns, and a simple neon sign that spelt out “Café de Don Juan” in simple, flickering red and gold cursive letters. The sign, too, fueled the pronunciation debate. Those who demanded the place be pronounced Byronically pointed to the fact that the “e” in “café” had an accent mark over it in the neon sign, but the “a” in the “Juan” did not, and so clearly this meant that any and all vowel stresses lay on the “e” alone and this matched up with Byron’s Don Juan, who also had no stress over the “a;” those who advocated for the Spanish pronunciation responded, generally, by informing the Byronic crowd that only those with a high caffeine and low brain cell count would take such pains over the placement of a stress, and that Byron was a pretty poor poet in any case (this last part did not go over well.) In any case, the outside was dull, drab, and a dirty, a typical Los Angeles structure.

The inside was different.

The boorish look of the exterior made the interior’s grandeur seem all the grander. Three chandeliers hung from a ceiling which boasted hand-painted Baroque images of lions and lovers and variety of other soft-palette images. The chandeliers themselves each featured a number of candles—not light bulbs, not in the Café de Don Juan—that were lit each night at just after sunset and the first rising of the moon. The three were each of a solid metal, one of bronze, one of silver, and one of gold. Correspondingly, the general areas they dominated and gave light to were known to the patrons as the Bronze, Silver, and Gold Halls, though in truth, no halls separated the three, and the entire café was one room, with the exception of the storage space and restrooms. Music was a constant and a must at the Café de Don Juan, but, in keeping with the theme of over-indulgence and pretentiousness that was the main allure for so many of its most frequent visitors, only “proper” music was ever played, the understanding of “proper” being something, again, that easily distinguished a patron from a poseur, the latter of which was almost certain to ask “What do you mean by ‘proper?’” and then, shortly thereafter, certain to be asked with the arrogant and irritated stares of the patrons to kinds vacate the premises. Even with this somewhat shared understanding, what “proper music” exactly meant was still another source of contention amongst those who were most frequently there (as if another reason for contention was needed.) Despite the definite Spanish roots of place, mariachi music was not to be played, and salsa had only recently been considered by the self-elected elite there to be acceptable, and only then on “the most exuberant” of occasions only. More often than not it was classical, operatic, or jazz music which rebounded about the walls of the old place from the overhead speakers or, on the rare instance there was a live performance, near the left-most wall of the Bronze Hall of the café (this was done so as to keep the entrance, bar area, and restrooms unblocked and the Armenians in the Corner of Antique mirrors mollified, as an intrusion into that area by anyone other than a fellow Armenian was not advisable.) Cigar smoke wasn’t only allowed, but seen as almost as much a necessity as the music, to the point it was often joked, patron to patron, that should there ever be a fire reported at the café the fire department would likely shrug it off as likely only being a particularly potent Havana.
The floors were wine-red. The walls were lined with reproductions of famous original art pieces. Even the hallways leading to restrooms were gilded.

As the light from a setting sun filtered in through the few stained-glass windows on a warm summer evening, a brilliant vermillion glow shone upon the patrons, completing the picture of perfection the Café de Don Juan put forth.

One such evening found Christina working on a number of projects, all with her high standard of energy but otherwise lacking in her standard of focus, as an attempt to write a thesis, have a conversation online, have another conversation via text, prepare for her solo performance the following night, and manage to cook something without setting the house on fire was failing rather miserably, with no real headway being made on any of these fronds and a small meatloaf catching fire and requiring a cartoonish bucket of water to effectively, if messily, put out. The conversations themselves weren’t even going to well; Donna seemed to find tonight of all nights the perfect time to rattle off a list of stage jinxes, all of which seemed to occur prevalently among young actresses just on evening before or of the debut performance, and Angela was texting about something she felt Christina had or hadn’t doe to her at work in some capacity at some point in time…what this was, really, Christina had no idea, nor did she care, but felt it was probably best to pretend she did care and apologize for whatever egregious sin she’d somehow committed waiting tables to avoid any sort of a scene at work. And so the night dragged on. Fingers flying across the keyboard and then off to the keypad of her phone and then back to the keyboard to send a message and then back to the essay until it was tile to flip the page of the scrip she had in front of her as she sang her part softly while orchestrating this entire ordeal.

It didn’t take too much persuasion, then, on Haley’s part when she called at around a quarter past eight to convince Haley to accompany herself, Richard, and Antoine to the aforementioned Café de Don Juan, and it was half past the hour when silver SUV with the cracked right-rear mirror rumbled up the street, followed by a text:

“were here now”

It was certainly a snug sort of an evening; the air was warm, not hot, and just muggy enough to make its presence felt without wearing too much on the skin or mind, for that matter. The ash from the fire in the Valley meant that the evening sunset was far more violently red than was natural, as the fiery crimson clashed somewhat with the comparatively-cooler maroon of Christina’s blouse and matching heels. Locking the house and checking the lock twice to be sure she’d locked it—she could never too sure about that sort of thing…the one time she didn’t check…well, of course it could happen even if she did check, and just checked and was wrong, so she always checked twice; the fact that this still didn’t absolutely ensure the house’s safety was seemingly irrelevant in light of the fact that this made her feel better for whatever reason—she walked from the stoop to the SUV, which was parked across the street. Why, exactly, they were parked across the street and not in her driveway she had no idea, but had the feeling Richard would just shrug it off and shoot back “oh, wow…duh, huh!” with a playful scoff, so she just didn’t ask.

With a smiling exchange of standard hellos, she opened the car door, releasing a rather loud outburst of sound—she couldn’t tell what that was, really, issuing forth from Richard’s speakers, it might have been music, but she’d never call it “proper” music—into the balmy night, where it intermixed with the sounds and smog of the city and was quickly lost upon the unhearing air and uncaring sun, which was setting all the more with each passing moment into that ashen, violent vermillion sky which seemed to decry its fatality more than its fall from high noon. The thought stuck with her, in that moment—the sun always did seem to die at the rising of the sun; it was an elementary fact, something a child of three could have told her, but all the same, for some reason, that thought struck a chord with her on this particular night, with this particular sunset…why was that? Why couldn’t the sun and moon share that same sky; there was a celestial, astronomical, logical reason, she knew, but all the same, in this particular instance, it didn’t seem enough, not with such a deathly star’s appearing to flame out at the end of the night, yielding only to what would surely be the cool glow of the moonlight—the cold glow, rather…she’d never thought of it that way, she generally looked forward to the evenings, in fact, to see the moon fully take its place with the diamond-like stars and illuminate an otherwise-empty, barren sky; the brilliance of the moon, in the dark of night, had always seemed so much more beautiful, more vibrant and vivid than the bright sun’s intermingling with the already-bright day. It was the cool moon to her, never the cold moon.

Tonight, at 8:35pm on a typical summer’s eve in Los Angeles, against a bloodied sky, it was cold.

But that wouldn’t matter to the others, she knew. Haley gave her usual, smiling, high-pitched “Hiiiii!” that seemed to only get higher and more irritating with each extra “I” she felt necessary to tack on at the end—she was a good friend, but she just never seemed to catch onto how much that irritated Christina ever last time—and, as usual, was dressed far more elaborately than Christina in a white dress that just as well might have been made of a fabric of diamonds, for all that it shimmered and shone and gave off a sense of radiance and inert beauty that the maroon dress, conventional as it was, could not compare with. Sure enough, there were diamonds in her ears and pearls around her neck as well—both these regions lay bare for Christina—and she’d done something different with her hair this evening, something like a French twist, and she’d managed it in such a way, it seemed, that the streaks of auburn highlights belied the rest of her otherwise-brown hair, and the red skyline only made this appearance seem all the more fiery and lustfully-fierce (especially, she felt, compared to the plain way in which her own dark hair merely fell past her shoulders and seemed to stay their limply, with none of the life of Haley’s hair.) Not white, but off-white pumps graced her feet, and these again, somehow, just appeared to Christina as if they carried with them a bit more flair. And then there was her “hiiiii!” itself. How she managed to say that for so long at so high a pitch and still somehow manage to take that opportunity to show off just how snow-white her teeth were, she didn’t know. There could be no doubt: Haley, her friend, was quite an elegant, stunning, lavishly-lascivious lady.

She could’ve hit her for that.

But of course, Haley, that grin staying all the while—didn’t she ever get tired smiling like that, her cheeks had to be killing her—complimented Christina’s appearance, again and again…and again and again, to be sure that for every compliment she gave, Christina would most certainly have to return one as well, and knowing full well she had far more to compliment than did Christina, it came as an unexpected source of relief when, as Richard himself finally tired of hearing just how beautiful his date was, the noise he called music blared once more from the car stereo and the car sped off down the street.

As for Richard’s appearance, Christina couldn’t care less, as she wasn’t his date, and likewise, it appeared Richard, for his part, couldn’t care less; a simple white dress shirt and navy-blue jacket with matching slacks was more than enough of a “dressed-up” appearance for him. From her seat in the right corner of the car she could catch a glimpse of his hair from front to back, and it was merely combed back, with maybe a bit of gel, but otherwise, as brown as the most basic brunette. Antoine was another story. Just looking at him, Christina had to stifle an incredibly strong urge to laugh (which might have ruined the date.) After that conversation they’d had in the green room of the theatre, as she was taking off her makeup the other night, about actresses getting made up like dolls and costume crews trying “too-too-hard” to paint a perfect picture, and it was clear from Antoine’s appearance and uneasy demeanor that he’d tried “too-too-hard” to put himself together in just the perfect way to impress her. Unlike Richard, he generally did wear a blazer out, no matter how hot; unlike tonight, however, that blazer was generally one he just wore without worrying if it was entirely-new looking or vibrant or crisp. He had a new jacket for the evening. She knew it to be new, as it was creaseless, stainless, and with that certain sleekness that only a new jacket has to offer and which an old, worn one cannot hope to impersonate. (There was also the fact this was the same jacket she’d seen him stare at for a moment or two in the shop a few days ago, and it fit him rather stiffly.) His shirt was the same story. It was white, yes, but not the simple sort of white Richard wore, this was bright white, brand-new, and, again, stiff as and completely uncomfortable as could be; it also had something of a faint pattern sewn into it, but what it was she couldn’t distinguish beyond its being a pattern. The slacks were new. The shoes were new. Even his hair, which was as full of wayward curls as ever, seemed to have a newness in the way in which he almost seemed to be trying to bring out those curls, as if realizing on some level the rest of him looked stiff and put together from a catalogue and so something about him had to look genuine and casual, and so his hair seemed to ache to be casual in style, when Christina, seeing him six days a week, after all, could tell that it was anything but.

After a few minutes of all of this comparing of clothing—something Richard was glad to ignore and focus on the road ahead instead—they came into the city itself, and after a traffic-filled trek down the Theatre District, the old SUV took a right and, seconds afterward, another right into a dark patch of the street that almost seemed like an alleyway until the neon sign of the Café de Don Juan said otherwise. There was no parking lot, but rather a line of cars parked along either side of the street.

“So now what?” Richard asked, turning down the stereo (at long last, for Christina and Antoine alike.)

“What do you mean?” Antoine asked, raising an eyebrow in his standard inquisitorial manner.

“There’s nowhere to park!” Richard laughed, as if this were the most obvious thing in the world.

“Nowhere to park?”

“Yeah, nowhere to park.”

“What do you mean?”

“I mean just that, nowhere to park, that was English, not French, so you can understand that.”

“I can understand French.”

“Right. Anyway, so what do you guys want to—”

“Hold on—what do you mean?”

“I mean there’s no parking lot, how is that hard to—“

“No, I mean, what do you mean, I can’t understand French? I understood it just fine
last night.”

“Is that why you confused ‘Hello’ for ‘The boredom?’”

“So I slipped in an extra syllable, that doesn’t mean—”

“Uh-huh, right, you got the word, and whatever, the point is, there’s no place to parking, so do you guys want to try somewhere else, or maybe—”

“First, I didn’t get it—”

“There’s plenty of space along the curb here, Richie” Haley chimed in, breaking up the feud.

“I’m not parking at the curb!” Richard laughing once more as if this were so obvious he didn’t understand how this could even be a point of discussion.

“But why not?”

“Haley, have you been to Los Angeles before?”

“Well, obviously.”

“Let me rephrase—have you been to Skid Row section of Los Angeles with your own car?”

“Well, no, but—”

“Well, there you are.”

“Oh, come on, Richie, all these other folks have parked along the curb.”

“Listen—!”

“Richie?” Haley responded, with that feminine forced sweetness in her voice that stops men cold, and so stopped Richard here.

“Excuse me?” came a voice from outside the car.

Richard rolled down the tinted side window to reveal a slim, waxen Latino man in his thirties with slicked-back-black hair and the faintest hint of a faint mustache.

“Are you all lost, or…?”

“Oh, no,” Richard responded, “you see, we were going to have some drinks here tonight, but you don’t seem to have any parking up front, so is there a lot in back, or—?”

“This is your first time at the Café de Don Juan, isn’t it?”

“Yes, it is” Haley replied, smiling that same toothy, pearly smile.

“Ah! I did wonder, with your idling in front for five minutes, most guests are usually parked, inside, and well into their first drink and debate by that time.”

“Well, we’d love to get the drinks, anyway,” Richard responded with the forced patience of someone who was very close to losing that virtue “but again, we can’t seem to find your lot.”

“’Our lot?’ The world is our lot, sir!” he responded, laughing with the same certainty in his words Richard had moments before, and much to the latter’s chagrin.

“That’s great, it really is, but where do I park, practically-speaking?”
While this routine was going on, Antoine stared wistfully out the window, and towards what was now the last embers of a sunset in the tender purple of a young evening, with the moon now beginning its ascent into heaven’s seat in full. The stars themselves weren’t out yet, or were but were so negligible to the naked eye they weren’t worth mentioning. It was such a beautiful sight, really…and yet a tragic one, as it meant the end of the sun’s reign time upon the stage tonight…and how bloodily had that reign had ended! he thought…it was a shame no one else could see that, could feel the unusual coldness of the moon tonight…

“Practically-speaking, senor, I would suggest that particular space over there
between the mailbox and that Ford.”

“On the curb?”

“Well…yes.”

“You see, Richie,” Haley chimed in—quite as Richard had hoped she would not—
“he doesn’t have a problem with us parking along the curb!”

“I’m sure he doesn’t, Haley, the thing is, though, seeing as how this is Skid Row in Los Angeles in the dead of night, I mind of do.”

“Oh, come, sir, come,” the newcomer chortled, so good naturedly it seemed patronizing, “please, park your car and come in and have a drink—we here at the Café de Don Juan have never had a parking lot, and yet never have had a single stolen car in all our long history, however long that history actually is…we have people to look after your car. And, if I may say so myself, sir, if you will, please take a quick look at all of these lovely cars parked along either side of the street here, right up alongside the curb…do you really think a thief’s first car of choice will be an aging SUV with a cracked rear window? Now, please, this way…”

Exiting the car—Richard’s pride severely and many times bruised over—the group swept from the area and across the street, up to the innocuous and an-assuming entrance of the Café de don Juan.

“It doesn’t look like that much, does it?” Antoine asked.

“Ah, few of the truly remarkable things in life do at first, sir…very few…”

“The fire in the Valley must be worse than they’re saying” Christina mused, sniffing the night air and wrinkling her nose.

“And what makes you say that, madam?”

“The smell of smoke seems to be getting even worse.”

“Oh!” the thin man laughed, this time so hard it was a wonder such a lithe man could laugh so hard and not blow himself over, “that, madam, isn’t the fire…that is simply the unmistakable presence of the Café de Don Juan!” he replied, grinning all the while, as they neared the café.

“Do you mind if I ask a question, sir?” Antoine asked, raising an eyebrow once more.
“Ah, please do, sir, for nothing is more welcome than a question and debate at the Café de—”

“At the Café de Don Juan, yes, I figured—listen, the first time it was ‘sir,”
then there was a ‘senor’ slipped in their somewhere, and then a couple seconds ago you addressed Christina with ‘madam’—”

“Oh, what a marvelous name that is, Madam Christina? A name fit for such a lady of your poise and elegance, if I may say so!”

“You may,” Christina said, blushingly bemused.

“Yes, it’s a nice name, there’s no doubting that, but my point here, is which is it—sir, madam, senor…English, Spanish, French, which is it?”

“Why can’t it be all three?”

Antoine twitched his head ever-so-slightly, in the fashion of one who had just been hit with a matter-of-fact and not expecting the blow at all.

“But, in truth, sir, I am, as so many in this City of the Angels are, an immigrant from your southern neighbor, my birthplace being the great ‘Ciudad de Mexico’ herself.”

“Oh!” Haley spoke up excitedly, her eyes flashing with the prospect of an interesting bit of gossip to share, the sight of which made Antoine instantly know what she was about to say and hope against any and all hope she wouldn’t say it. “Christina, there you go! “

“’There you go’?” the man responded, with an amused glint in his eye to match the excitement in Haley’s.”

“She’s from Mexico too!” she responded, putting her arm around a still-bemused, if somewhat embarrassed, Christina.

“Ay! A fellow countryman, er, excuse, countrywoman…from where do you hail, senorita?” he asked, the fair accent he held from his place of birth now becoming more and more pronounced at this revelation, as they neared the double-door entrance.

“Guadalajara.”

“Magnificent place,” he said, smiling broadly, as he held open the door, and they
entered.

END OF PART 1
fiedler (1293 D)
30 Jul 11 UTC
I have yet to read the first part, probably will get to it tomorrow, but I gotta say your introduction was shockingly coherent and interesting!

Some advice: for your own safety, never call a woman relatively good-looking.

And what the heck is a "classical" sort of a person?
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
30 Jul 11 UTC
Yeah, I know, I wrote both of those--"relatively-good-looking" and "classical sort of person"--and instantly hated them, but after finally completing the first part and the Prologue, was too tired to fix it. :p

What I mean, in the "classical" case, is she's not the sort of person who'd really be into all that much of recent pop culture, but prefer what she'd consider "classical" culture (after all, she IS a singer, and a very good one, singing "Carmen" right now, so that's soemthing of an indication of what I mean right there, that and her reaction to the music when she gets to the SUV in Part 1...she's sormething of a person out of time in that regard, the same way Antoine's something of a bohemian dreamer who'd probably identify more with poets than pop stars, and Richard and Haley are the control subjects, they're regular people of today who'd care more for modern pop culture...

Anyway, taht's sort of what I meant, and yeah, never say "relatively good looking" to a woman, lol, I just meant that both are good looking, but Haley's supposed to be something of a show-stopper in that regard...)
uclabb (589 D)
30 Jul 11 UTC
Honest opinion: It reads as if you are trying to write a great piece of literature, but don't have the chops to pull it off (I don't either!). I mean, you are basically trying to set up this Cafe de Don Juan as this place with great character and history, but then you write things like "The walls were lined with reproductions of famous original art pieces." Reproductions of famous original art pieces? I groaned when I read that.

In a similar vein, if you want to write in this very descriptive style, you need to have more precise adjectives, adverbs, and such. The most jarring example in my mind: "Haley, her friend, was quite an elegant, stunning, lavishly-lascivious lady." Lascivious? Unless I seriously misunderstand your character development of Haley, that is not the word you want. To be honest, it kind of reads like you typed in a work like sexy and then chose the synonym that Microsoft Word provided that started with an "l" to get a little alliteration going.

I also think you need to reexamine the voice you use or whatever it is called, and what impression you are trying to give with it. Right now, (no offense) it kinda reads like a story told by a pretentious 19-year-old that can occasionally jump into the minds of the characters, which I imagine is not what you are going for.

Last, I would suggest going for the immigrant thing or the exploring pretentiousness thing, but not both. One is hard; two is almost impossible.

Also, fix your uses of there/their. It is annoying.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
30 Jul 11 UTC
""The walls were lined with reproductions of famous original art pieces." Reproductions of famous original art pieces? I groaned when I read that."

Yeah, that's a pretty shitty line, haha...point well taken.

As for the Haley bit...I think you might have misunderstood what I'm going for with her (eventually) but if so, that's probably a fault more of my fill-in prologue and not yours...I assure you, though, I didn't just pick the word to pick something besides "sexy" or jsut for the alliteration, I did pick that one flat out...

Since it's a story about pretentiousness, I actually DO want it to have that pretentuous feeling about it, it's meant to be over-dramatic at times like that, as--not there yet, getting there--really this is building up to a show of how ridiculous this pretentious attitude and worship of the aesthetic is, so if it sounded pretentious in that regard...I guess I did what I meant to do, but I suppose the third-person omniscient portion of this could tone that down a bit and leave most of the pretentiousness for the moments that it focuses on the mains...

And then I plan on exploring the race relations/pretentiousness thing together because I think it CAN and does fit togetehr very well in that I think there's a great concern over IDENTITY in the world today (for a rather nasty negative proof ot that, the Oslo killer certainlly felt his national/ethnic identity was being challenged by multiculturalism.) So that's why I ahve the whole Antoine/Christina bit, as Antoine, throughout the story, is trying to establish an identity around that whole mythos of great French artists and writers--hence my opening prologue statement that he's so proud of his name and French haritage--and that's set against Christina, who's trying to ESCAPE her image as an immigrant a bit and successfully assimilate into North American-European culture, and so THAT'S why she's so focused on the classical elements of the Western Culture, in the attempt to build herself back up in the image of someone who's the epitome of that...and yet at the saem time she doesn't hate her Mexican heritage flat-out, she just wants to put it aside right now and wear the Western hirage mask successfully. It's all about identity and who's really what in a modern age, which is why I have Richard/Haley set against Christina/Antoine, as, ironically, for all their reaching for the past and classics, I think people like people like Christina and Antoine are more of the mdoern person, always trying to re-invent themselves, whereas Richard and Haley really just sort of go with the flow and allow society to assign an identity to them, unlike Antoine and Christina, who are trying to assign an identity to themselves in spite of society; for Antoine, it's his trying to be what he thinks is a good artist or whatever else in spite of the fact common taste is no longer in line with old French poets, adn for Christina, its about trying to balance two cultures and derive an identity that's both a balance of and yet idependent of the two...

But in doing that, both of them reach for things that people today might find pretentious.

So I suppsoe maybe it's real vs. false identities and individually made vs.societally imposed identities I'm going for, maybe "pretentiousness" and "race relations" were a bad choice of words, but keep in mind it's still only poart of the first draft. :)

But thanks for the input, I'll keep that all in mind, and defintely try and find a balance between playing up the pretentiousness of some parts with keeping a more balanced third-person omniscient voice...do you have any suggestion to that end?

But thanks for the interest! :)
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
30 Jul 11 UTC
Yeah.

So I just read that part over again, and I definitely agree with uclabb's point about it, the language definitely is hit-or-miss, and the misses are definitely pretty sour in some of those spots, I'm fixint them on my Word copy right now...a couple of those--like the specific one you pointed out, uclabb--are just horrendous and actualyl kind of piss me off that I wrote that. (Needless to say, that sentence is no longer in the word copy.)

So I'll definitely work on that, and some of those sentences that do work could probably work better if they were two or even three sentences in some cases...

But I'm happy with the main structure and dialogue for the most part so far, so I'll get started on Part 2 (which ironically is realyl "Part 3" for me, since Part 3's alreay done adn was the first one done...making it Part 1 and Part 1 Part 2 and Part 2 Part 3...oy) and try and post that sometime today.

But definitely thanks for pointing that out, uclabb, because that really is a good point and something I want to and obviously think I can improve on.
mapleleaf (0 DX)
30 Jul 11 UTC
Your prose is unbelievably tortured.

Pick up a paint brush......
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
30 Jul 11 UTC
Nah.

Can't paint--even worse than my writing.

But thanks for the free bump as always, maple.
"I also think you need to reexamine the voice you use or whatever it is called, and what impression you are trying to give with it. Right now, (no offense) it kinda reads like a story told by a pretentious 19-year-old that can occasionally jump into the minds of the characters, which I imagine is not what you are going for."

+1

Writing is about connecting to people, not showing how smart or cultured you are, no matter what it is you are writing.

And periods are your friend! I know, its your style, but christ its hard to read sentences with half a dozen commas and the same number of thoughts.

"Since it's a story about pretentiousness,"

point taken
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
30 Jul 11 UTC
Haha, I know, I'm adding more periods now...

The thing of it is, the reason I have so few periods in my writing--including when I post here--is when I type, I just naturally punctuate as I think it, and so why it looks and sounds better with two or three sentences, I generally think of things as one big thought with smaller thoughs making it up; as a result, I end up with one big sentence too many times when some smaller sentences to break up that big thought into digestible pieces reads better.

So yeah, I'm aware of that, and uclabb's good point about the language in a few of those instances as well...

I'd mostly be interested in what everyone has to say about the plot, characters, and general and direction of this; the sentence structure and language I can of course fix, those other elements are more integral to whether this is a good story or not...

Granted I only have 1 of 3 parts posted of part of a part of a story, but still...

Does anyone spot any glaring flaws in the plot so far, or irritating character traits (or if you wanted to be complimentary, that always works too, tell me if there's anything you DO like...) :p
Thucydides (864 D(B))
30 Jul 11 UTC
I haven't read it but I would like to say:

In my experience, the more emotional you want it to be, the shorter the paragraphs should be. Yours are long so I assume the piece has a detached feeling. This is fine, but if you do try to make it emotional later on, keep this in mind.
mapleleaf (0 DX)
30 Jul 11 UTC
obi posted,..."The thing of it is, the reason I have so few periods in my writing--including when I post here--is when I type, I just naturally punctuate as I think it, and so why it looks and sounds better with two or three sentences, I generally think of things as one big thought with smaller thoughs making it up; as a result, I end up with one big sentence too many times when some smaller sentences to break up that big thought into digestible pieces reads better."
##############################################################

This is a perfect example of why you CANNOT write a story. You simply cannot write a fucking SENTENCE.

That sentence was totally unreadable, your protestations of "style over structure" notwithstanding.

"I'd mostly be interested in what everyone has to say about the plot, characters, and general and direction of this; the sentence structure and language I can of course fix, those other elements are more integral to whether this is a good story or not..."

Wrong. The bricks and mortar are of the essence. I'm sure that you, and retards like you, have many many wonderful stories to tell. You, unfortunately, are unable to tell them because you cannot write a story to save your life.

I have an idea.

Give us what we are asking for.

A story with non-fucked-up sentence structure and language.

Something that you have ALREADY completed.

Or just tell us all the truth.

There is NOTHING that you have written outside of school assignments, and that you are a POSEUR.
Invictus (240 D)
30 Jul 11 UTC
I haven't read it yet but I am just about to.

I do have to ask though, why the character introductions? If your story's any good everything you say there should be self-evident in the story itself.
Invictus (240 D)
30 Jul 11 UTC
The description of the cafe was actually really good, obiwanobiwan. If you develop that you may have something here. Something that is unlikely to be published and even less likely to be successful, but more than the inane scribblings of a pseudo-intellectual you post here. After reading this I could see myself buying your third crack at a novel in a decade or so.

The dialogue, however, was dreadful. It reads like a Gilmore Girls script. You really need to fix that. It's an anchor on this work of yours.
Mujus (1495 D(B))
30 Jul 11 UTC
A good read! It flows, and is replete with imagery. My advice at this stage would be to let the pretentiousness come through in the content: cut commas, hyphens, overly-specific double adjectives, flowery language. "...a couple of seconds ago" can go, as can "blushingly bemused" --or was it vice versa? Also, change informal and modern "towards" to "toward," and watch your references. "The nearest Spanish" does not apply to Mexicans, for example. Did you mean Spanish speakers? But yes, already an enjoyable read. Tighten it up and I'd be very interested in seeing where it's going, both plot-wise and in publication.
Mujus (1495 D(B))
30 Jul 11 UTC
I was assuming the character introductions were for us the critics but I definitely agree that they don't belong in the story itself.
denis (864 D)
30 Jul 11 UTC
The first paragraph ( all I've reads far) could be totally revamped. Instead of giving the reader a boring tour of the cafe and tediously explaining the pronunciation of the name, you could use dialogue, and then describe the characters speech like so... " dun gwan" he said with a thick (blank) accent which irresponsibly muddled up pronunciation at a whim... That's not a very good but it's quick. Or you could just infer how someone would say it by saying, "the Latinos, and there were quite a lot of them, shared the immaculate pronunciation of the Spaniards..." get it? Just a short critique of a short part I'll post more later...
Mafialligator (239 D)
30 Jul 11 UTC
It's not bad, but there are still parts where you could do to be more economical with your word use. For instance your first sentence could be simply "The easiest way in which to distinguish those who simply visited the Café de Don Juan from those who frequented it was in the way the name of the locale itself was pronounced." It's also slightly strange to describe a restaurant as a "locale", that's not quite what that word means...which brings me to my next point.

There are also a few places in which you've used synonyms that don't quite mean what you need them too. You're not bad for this at all, but generally you don't want to consult your thesaurus too often. If you know what word you mean, don't use a different one. A thesaurus is for situations where you can't quite think of the word you're looking for, but you know the general sense you're trying to create.

Don't begin or end sentences within parentheses.

"In any case, the outside was dull, drab, and a dirty; a typical Los Angeles structure."

A building cannot be boorish. Boorish is a way of behaving. As in
"mapleleaf is behaivng boorishly" said Mafialligator.
"What else is new?" said obiwanobiwan, rolling his eyes.

There is no genre of music called "operatic". I suppose you must mean "opera".
Yeah, I only got to the descriptive first few paragraphs. I'll get to the rest later.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
30 Jul 11 UTC
Or, "Obama orders more deaths," opined Tettleton's Chew.

Yeah although maple is jerking your chain I would also recommend going back through and breaking things up into smaller sentences. I have to do this too, I think most of us do, and I think it makes the writing better 95% of the time. Be uncompromising and decisive about it too, let it germinate, then read it later. You may like it.

PS if I read your whole story will you read mine and let me know your thoughts, I wrote it about a year ago. Won't post it here but just wondering obi
Mafialligator (239 D)
30 Jul 11 UTC
Errr, you want to avoid using so-called "Said Bookisms" Thucydides. Said is one of the few words you can't overuse, because people don't even notice the word. You don't want to sound like a fanfic writer or J.K. Rowling where every single character asks, replies, retorts, responds, queries, states, implores or says somethingly, but no one ever just says anything.

And yeah, just generally cut everything down. Make sentences as short as you can without losing meaning.

And denis, I completely disagree, the description actually worked fairly well, I had a good picture of what the cafe looked like. It would be impossible for him to have given even a fraction the detail he did there through dialogue without having characters awkwardly telling each other things that should be quite obvious. "I must say the hallways to the washrooms are looking more gilded than usual this evening." is not a sentence that I think would improve this story much.
Mujus (1495 D(B))
30 Jul 11 UTC
@ Maple, get a life and stop whaling on people. I don't see you submitting any of your writing to public scrutiny and the chance of ridicule. Or, in words of one syllable, "I don't much care for your bad grace."
Mujus (1495 D(B))
30 Jul 11 UTC
Well that was probably not very gracious on my part, either. Apologies. I just wanted to defend Obi.
"Writing is about connecting to people, not showing how smart or cultured you are, no matter what it is you are writing."

+1 Santa

Your story reminds me of Hemingway. I hate descriptive stories. But if that's your cup of tea, scribble.

Constructive criticism:

I actually think your story flows well. Your complicated sentence structure (for me) is actually fun to read, but you should simplify your grammar. My biggest problem with Part 1 is that your description and dialogue and separated. The first half is description and the second half is dialogue. I was bored with the description half-ways through, so I skipped to the dialogue. Half-ways through the dialogue, I skipped to the end. See what I mean? Great intro, but I felt several more intros (which I realize is important to the setting, and a splendid job you did), but break it up with dialogue or do something! Know what I mean?
mapleleaf (0 DX)
30 Jul 11 UTC
@Mujus - I've never claimed to be a writer, unlike obi-liar. There's a difference, you stupid cunt. Now, if you'll excuse me, your mother just dropped by.
wonder what Maple's dirty tramp of a wife will think of that. It's alright though, I guess there's no harm if she already has every STD known to man (and beast).

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136 replies
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
05 Sep 11 UTC
200001: A Past Legacy
Every human life on Earth, tomorrow, suddenly vanishes. Mankind is gone for good. But you learn that by the year 200001, either the Apes will rise, or space aliens will come along...SOMEONE will populate Earth once more, and wonder who used to live here. You build a Mt. Mankind: 10 Heads of anyone who's ever lived, and one relic/piece of work of theirs to tell the future who humans were. Who, and what, do you choose?
30 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
04 Sep 11 UTC
15-Center Brazil Needed To Close A 4-Way Draw
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=61388

This draw is locked in if we get a replacement Brazil...if not, Kenya will win via a CD, and that's not right. It's a GREAT position, 15 Centers, and even split in the Americas, and holdings in Europe...someone, join, quickly, please...it's a SURE DRAW if you just help us hold the line!
2 replies
Open
DouweJan (0 DX)
30 Aug 11 UTC
Tribalwars spelers/players
Heren, ik vind dat we het hier ook wel even gezellig kunnen maken?
71 replies
Open
Hugo_Stiglitz (100 D)
29 Aug 11 UTC
Marijuana
Just wanna get a general consensus of the forum's feeling on the drug
Not necesarilly argue the leaglity of it, just why (or why not) you use it.
And what the drug means to you
156 replies
Open
Dunecat (5899 D)
04 Sep 11 UTC
Idea for a new betting system: % instead of # of points
I'd like to suggest a new option in which the required bet for a game is an equal percentage of a player's total points (including those in play) instead of a set number of points. In practice, the relative investment for all players would be more equal and could encourage underdogs to take on the richest players on the site.
22 replies
Open
Pimpernel (115 D)
05 Sep 11 UTC
Live Ancient
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=67163
2 replies
Open
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