what is a classicist?

Hm, the problem is I have already made a nice long post describing the Classicists, but I can't find it on your forum! So I am hoping someone who knows how to use this forum better than I do can dig it up for everyone wondering who the Classicist are.

A really quick description though: Group of players with standardized admission criteria dedicated to reducing NMRs. We host games within the group and anyone who meets the criteria can join.

@Orathaic

It's exactly like the 150cc but for all games, not just live ones.

@raphtown

Look a few threads down. You'll see info on the 150cc Club, which is very similar to what you're proposing, but only for live games.

Interesting, looks similar, but I think there are a few differences that could easily allow the two groups to co-exist. I'll wait for some more opinions before making a decision about how to proceed ( learned my lesson from last time! )

I think you'll find that most of our active members are currently in a fight to the death regarding tournament structures : ) So, not sure how much attention this will receive atm.

Here's a link:
http://playdiplomacy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=118&t=14593

"CORE VALUES OF A CLASSICIST"
A Classicist should be respectful of his opponents at all times. Comments on or criticisms of other players' styles of play, communications, tactical and strategic decisions in games, etc. should always be constructive and without any hint of personal abuse. Ideally these should be made in game-specific AARs. Be aware that players may sometimes adopt personalities or roles in games which are different from how they would behave in real life or in forum discussions. That is part of the game.

B) Reliability

A Classicist is also expected to be consistent in terms of his submission of orders and ability to respond to messages. Breaches in consistency must be fully justified if they ever occur.

C) Humility

A Classicist must not be overly boastful of his achievements or denigrating of other’s skill.

D) Experience

A Classicist should have a firm grasp on the rules of Diplomacy and the fundamental elements of play.

E) Excluded from Core Values

Skill is not part of the Classicist’s core values. This is not an elitist club.

************************
>> Based on this, I can think of quite a few active and highly rated members at our site that would not qualify, ignoring their NMR rate :)

I'd love some kind of mechanism to identify members who don't miss turns (or NMR).

"fight to the death" is a good description, Ab. Raph, see the thread "League format".
You'll see what I mean about many members not qualifying based on core values lol.

yeah, I think the humility thing is way off base =P j/k

I think this is great and you are likely to find champions for this type of a 'club'... our community and forum are bit more free wheeling though, so this would definitely be a voluntary type thing... so question. on play dip, how are member's policed? for being too boastful for example? or for being rude and disrespectful? who judges that?

I would join the classicist because I fully support the idea.

@Babak, one of the reasons for the respect clause was that when the idea was first introduced on PlayDip we had a few rowdier members who were being pretty provocative. We didn't have a way of dealing with these troublemakers at the time so in the very clear-cut cases I put my foot down. However, I then created a committee of elected Classicists who would take care of any further such breaches and created a procedure by which members could report complaints to the committee members.

Of course, as soon as it was created, all the troublemakers seemed to disappear, and therefore it has lied dormant for quite some time now and has not actually been put to the test. I am guessing something similar would be necessary here as well.

So, in summary, respect/humility violations can be reported to a wide range of members who would then deliberate and decide on a (hopefully) impartial response. In all honesty though, the humility clause is more of a guideline, and it is really the respect clause we focus on.

Everything but B) Reliability describes me.
I will occasionally miss a turn, about once a month due to being to lazy to enter orders.

@Fasces, yeah we recognize that players might miss a move every now and then. Therefore a breach in reliability for the Classicists is counted as either: 2 consecutive NMRs, or a surrender/resign

The majority of missed orders from the most diligent players here, of course, are the 500 internal errors, or other computer glitches, and that is something we will always have to understand and deal with in online Dip ... as for the classicists, interesting, but my guess is that it won't fly here. Just my two cents, and I've been at this frustrating game since 1980

I think the debate about who has better games is ridiculous; one that nobody will win. What I propose is this: WebDip selects it's best three, the "other" site select it's best three...and then one random player. Game is anonymous, so in theory nobody knows the swing (3v4)....and run a tourney or two.

Let's see who has the better Dip players.

We have Ghost ratings to select games. What does the other site have? We can select players from "Top tier" "Mid Tier" and "Low Tier" (because I want a chance to play in SOME tier!!)....

So screw this idea of coming together! Let's instead make an International Dip League! And....I might humbly suggest...WebDip will be the Supreme Winner (Which is what the title and trophey will be labeled....Trophey to be sent to K'.s house, for putting this whole fantastic thing together!)

I think this is a noble enterprise, and I think raphtown has the right idea that there has to be an indigenous ownership of the idea... he can be the spark that helps it get rolling, but eventually, respected members of this community would have to pick it up and lead... like the SoW or like the 150cc etc...

the one differentiating factor I think, is that despite our similar platforms, the Ghost Ratings, the Leagues, and the presence of Kestas and the self-moderation / game mods have created an atmosphere that might seem like it does not need such a society.

another words, this society might be attempting to solve a problem that does not exist in the same acute manner that engendered its creation on playdip... but that would just be speculation on my part.

raph, I think you've done a grat job of explaining it and answering questions so far... now the question is if there is enough interest. in this idea.

"@Fasces, yeah we recognize that players might miss a move every now and then. Therefore a breach in reliability for the Classicists is counted as either: 2 consecutive NMRs, or a surrender/resign"
In that case my 1 resignation was a live game going up till 2:30 am before I went to sleep resigning from the game.

It would be interesting to set up friendly game between original classicist on playdip and interested candidates from webdip. To be completely fair, we could set up 2 games, one in here, and one in playdip. Than we find 14 players, 7 from each site to play and distribute it equally.

For example.

Game 1
played on webdip
3 players from webdip + 4 players from playdip

Game 2
played on playdip
3 players from playdip+ 4 players from webdip

Every player will play for himself, so he will make and brake alliances based on situation on the field and not based on from witch site he originates. Result would be unimportant too, it would be played for fun and to people get to know each other. We are all diplomacy fanatics after all both here and there :D

Because of the organization of this game we would require 2 captains of the teams (similar to the role of the captain in the masters). Captain would be responsible for creating game and sending password to the players and after that his role would be over. Raphtown would be best candidate for captain in playdip site, and if he is interested (so far he showed greatest interest in the topic) Babak would be captain of webdip team, or after 7 people who will represent webdip are chosen they could elect captain by democratic vote process.

I find this idea interesting, but I am still not entirely clear on how a person is accepted into this group. Do you need to be sponsored or can anyone without CD's join?

@Dejan good idea! I am unsure if I have time to be a team captain in such a game, but I would definitely be willing to organize it, regardless of how the rest of the Classicist integration pans out.

@Babak If I get a few interested people, I will consider starting and managing the group here, and seeing how it works out. If it does catch on and we hit a certain number of WebDip members (say... 50) I would then transfer control to a 'local'

@jmo + Fasces I haven't really decided what the criteria for WebDip should be, as the stats given are not the same as on PlayDip. I will take suggestions though and if we do go through with this I will make an initial decision which we can then improve on as time goes on.

Great, so we only need 7 people from this site who will play.

Who want to accept this honor to represent webdip in the first intersite game of diplomacy? :)

Ok, I have mentioned the idea on PlayDip, and will try and generate interest there. Dejan, can I count on you to field the players on this end?

Yes I will do that. I am certain there will be enough interests on both sites.

So anyone who is interested to participate in this two games can declare his interest here or by PM.

A Classicist should be respectful of his opponents at all times. Comments on or criticisms of other players' styles of play, communications, tactical and strategic decisions in games, etc. should always be constructive and without any hint of personal abuse.

Hmm no, I love criticism AND personal abuse.

B) Reliability

A Classicist is also expected to be consistent in terms of his submission of orders and ability to respond to messages. Breaches in consistency must be fully justified if they ever occur.

Yes I'm reliable.

C) Humility

A Classicist must not be overly boastful of his achievements or denigrating of other’s skill.

Humility? Bliah!

D) Experience

A Classicist should have a firm grasp on the rules of Diplomacy and the fundamental elements of play.

Very experienced.

E) Excluded from Core Values

Skill is not part of the Classicist’s core values. This is not an elitist club.

I'm an elitist.

So I guess I cannot be a classicist.

Players interested to represent webdip team in the first intersite game of diplomacy so far (we need 7 players plus reserves if possible):

rdrivera2005
Ivo Ivanov
President Eden

Players interested to represent webdip team in the first intersite game of diplomacy so far (we need 7 players plus reserves if possible):

rdrivera2005
Ivo Ivanov
President Eden
The Wizard

Dejan - you should include yourself in that list ;) and I'm glad you are getting some of the best exemplars of what the 'Classicist ' is trying to represent... all of these players are not only highly skilled, but also some of the best exemplars of respect and sportsmanship.

i am going to have to decline your kind invitation however and would suggest you to take the lead. thank you for taking on this important role thus far as well.

Players interested to represent webdip team in the first intersite game of diplomacy so far (we need 7 players plus reserves if possible):

rdrivera2005
Ivo Ivanov
President Eden
The Wizard
Dejan0707

Update on my end: I have 3 high quality players already interested, though by the looks of it it would be better to start some time in early August. Would that be a problem?