i mean, he just threw for three tds and ran for one. in 15 minutes. on the road. 35 already. wow.

He also killed a bunch of dogs.

you mean besides the fact that he deserves to rot in prison for the rest of his life?

he is an american football quarterback. who went to prison for dogfigthing. he is now out and playing better than ever. which is pretty incredible. because the nfl is a young man's game built on pure athleticism and fitness. so to spend two years in jail--where you probably dont have a great diet, training regimen, sleep cycle, etc--and then come out and dominate is incredibly impressive.

I mean, look, i like dogs. but he served his time. I feel two years in prison, a loss of millions in income, and having the entire country rip on you for a couple of years is sufficient penalty.

no, i think cruelty to animals is on par with slavery.

Oh boo hoo. Vick lost a million. I bet his tax accountant paid more attention than he did. And people not liking him isn't a penalty. It's just the result of him being a scumbag. Also, damn right he went to jail. He should be there now.

So, should sport fishers rot in prison for the rest of their lives?

Considering humans ARE animals just with higher intelligence...

The problem when it comes to enforcing animals rights laws is that it is a pretty arbitrary line. I mean, why is what Mike Vick did worse than killing minks and chinchillas for fur? or slaughtering baby cows for veal? maybe you think those are crimes too but they arent in our legal system. so I think two years (which is more time than you get for, say, killing a guy while you are driving drunk) is more than enough. especially when you consider that he is a first time offender who grew up immersed in dog fighting. which apparently is popular in the rural southeast.

out of curiosity, are you a football fan?

@Bob
Are they torturing their animals before they kill them?

Saffron, that is a bizarre argument. So is stepping on an ant just as bad as killing your neighbor? where do we draw the line? the point is, its all fairly arbitrary

I think most slaughterhouses effectively torture animals before killing them.

Vick got railroaded because he was a successful black celebrity and the DA knew he had a case that could make a career.

"no, i think cruelty to animals is on par with slavery."

Well, this certainly isn't true. A human life has a much higher value than an animals.

But, Vick has a pretty sweet life. And, I'm sure he got let off easy (like all BS celebrity sentences) because of who he is. If he was just an Average Joe, not only would his punishment been greater, but he probably wouldn't have been given a second chance either.

So, no, I don't think his penalty was sufficient and I think it's a shame the NFL let him back. I don't feel bad in the least for people who make millions of dollars playing a GAME and still manage to fuck up their lives.

@Cron
Agreed. There is a reason the Latin American world is moving towards banning bull fighting. There is a large difference between the subsistence use of an animal and torture / dog fighting.

@Frank
Hell yes. I love me some NYG.
And again, I draw the line at cruelty. I personally wouldn't even hunt, but not on moral grounds -- it just sounds boring to me. I enjoy eating meat, but wouldn't do so if the waiter came up to me and told me that the cow from which the steak I was about to eat came was tortured to death.

What ever happened to Marcus Vick?

Vick is pretty much awesome.

@omg "Cruelty to animals is on par with slavery" Dude...get a life. Well, first, take a Valium - or maybe a handful - and THEN get a life. If you equate humans and animals - then you are a pathetic human being.

@Cronscript Who whined about Vick losing money? The guy did his time...and hasn't whined **at all** since getting out...but he got back on his feet, managed to put his career back together and is paying taxes.

I'm curious - all you moronic people that hate Vick and don't think he should be playing football -- WHAT EXACTLY would you rather have him do? Clearly you don't think he should play football (not sure how his crime - which he SERVED time for - and football are related) so I can assume you don't think he deserves any job. So...would you rather have him collecting welfare? No...probably don't want that, either...

I find it amazing when somebody that has committed a crime repents and tries to do right all the do-gooders out there -- you know, all you jack-asses that apparently have never done *anything* wrong in your life - just want to continually beat someone down. Does it make you feel better to hate him? What a sad way to go through life making yourself feeling better through self-righteous hating on others.

@Abg&Krellin
Okay so you two think that humans are above animals? I can understand how you would come to this conclusion and all based on the fact that we dominate the planet. First of all as I stated before, humans are animals. Just of a more self conscious and intelligent species.

However if you two do believe that animals are fair game for cruelty while human lives are so much more important I assume you two also will agree with the statement that extraterrestrial life, should it exist, and if it is more intelligent and capable than us -- has the right to treat us as we treat animals?

@Krellin
And for what it's worth. NO. I have NEVER, ever, ever done anything even close to torturing an animal. And never will, barring my future children are going to starve to death dependent on it.

Hey, dipshit, how about you read what I wrote before you go shooting your mouth off.

Yeah, scientifically, humans are in the Animal Kingdom, but if I had to chose between saving a human life and a barrel full of kittens, guess which I'm going to chose. I have no idea where the concept of "rights" came in. That's a completely artificially constructed idea. There are no "rights" only things you are able to do.

Now, go back and read what I said. You'll see I've been incredibly harsh on Vick for what he did. But, it's just moronic to equate what he did to human slavery.

@krellin
Frank's 4th post in this thread "whined about Vick losing money". I'm not sure why you felt it necessary to tell me he's paying his taxes...was it because of my comment about his accountant? My only point there was to say that he has more money than he knows what to do with, and only the person who keeps track of his income would truly care.

As for why he shouldn't be playing in the NFL, players are constantly being held up, both by the league and by society, as role models. That is why all basketball players have to wear formal attire when appearing at press conferences -- to set a good example. There is certainly no law that dictates that, but the league does, in order to set a standard higher than that required law. The same concept exists in the NFL. Most steroids aren't illegal -- but if you use them and get caught, you will be thrown out of the NFL so fast you won't even notice the door opening and closing, just your ass hitting the curb. I object to his crime, but I object more to him returning to the NFL, where people might "look up to him".

And please, don't try and pretend he's a model of contrition. Any statement he made was written by someone at a PR agency. There is no way to actually get inside his head (besides to know him personally, which I'm pretty sure none of us do).
And actually, I'm pretty sure the most serious laws I've broken are speeding and j-walking.

"I assume you two also will agree with the statement that extraterrestrial life, should it exist, and if it is more intelligent and capable than us -- has the right to treat us as we treat animals?"
If it is more intelligent and capable than us, then they can do whatever the hell they want. Doesn't mean we won't *try* to resist, but mistreated animals will attempt to fight back too. As for whether they have the "right," to my knowledge no terrestrial body of law recognizes extra-terrestrials or grants them any rights.

@groza
I don't really feel like getting involved in the humans vs animals thing, but your point is a little ludicrous. If aliens come who are more advanced than us, why should they give a rats ass about our terrestrial bodies of law? For all we know, deer have a congress that has outlawed hunting, and they just haven't figured out how to let us know about it yet.

@Cron actually you have just restated my point. The part about the body of law was just tongue-in-cheek banter to limelight that "rights" are not well definable across species. Now if we had communicated with this species and written a treaty, that's different.

@Abg;
So expressing my opinion is shooting my mouth off? And yes, calling me names is totally mature and definitely helps to prove your own opinion. :)

I'm really not interested in playing semantics either. You all know what I mean by 'the right'.

You said I'm in favor of animal cruelty after I specifically denounced Vick for his actions.

@groza
Ah, my bad. Humor and sarcasm are sometimes hard to detect without a tone of voice. I apologize.

@Cronscript: I don't think I was whining as much as pointing out that he has probably served a reasonable penalty. And look up the Vick story, he definitely doesn't have more money than he knows what to do with. He owes millions to various creditors.

I don't really have anything to say about animal rights and stuff but in terms of Vick's return to the NFL, I think that any employer has the right to hire someone who has served their legal punishment. If anything, if more employers were willing to hire ex-cons, we would probably have lower recidivism rates. So I think it's setting a good example.

Also, not to parrot Sir Charles, but I don't believe it is the responsibility of professional athletes to be role models. Their responsibility is to win games, entertain and generate profit. I love guys like Nash and Battier and and Halladay Jeter who are role models, but I don't see it as necessary. I don't begrudge guys like Iverson and Ricky Wiliams for not being like that. Plus, Vick does appear a changed man....his story of comeback and redemption can be inspiring to many youth.

plus are none of you watching this game