The ear is obviously the source of one of the five senses. I’d like to use this as a key point in disproving that it cannot have evolved. Of course, the single-cell organism didn’t have any of the five sentences. Evolution couldn’t have created hearing. It’s too complex to come by with random chance. Hearing requires many parts for it to function correctly.

therefore we should all make the ridiculous assumption, as if we're high on pot, that a magical being must have made it that way. Science provides a logical pathway to examine the truth, religion (ie creationism, the biggest load of shit i've ever heard) is a bunch of arrogant assumption. your simple example fails to accomplish what you think. give it up.

i bet you believe in miracles too? and pink unicorns? evolution creates nothing, ergo your reasoning is biased and flawed

I'd like to use ottovanbis as a prime example. He believes in evolution. He knows it has flaws in it. He isn't willing to debate them. Instead he attacks the beliefs of others. I will say this, and I hope I don't have to say it again-I will not discuss my personal beliefs in the Judeo-Christian God. That's not what this debate will be about.

I don't know, Zazamarandabo, I don't think anything has any of the five sentences.

Hearing is just our experience of sound waves (which always existed)... its not a thing.
Its a sensation the brain makes up in response to an actual thing.

someone give me the executive summary on whether this is a parody thread or not

I'm too busy for reading and such

You made a thread for the sole purpose of exploiting flaws, come on man, don't dish it out if you can't take it. I'm sick of assumptions. SICK AND FUCKING TIRED OF IT. You're argument is grounded in a system of lies and I cannot stand how you pretend it to be logic. You are a prime example of what I despise most

Zaza...: Do you believe that all species were created by God? If so, how does this explain cross-breeds never seen until they occured from man's influence?
I'm not trying to be rude or anything, just to understand your view.

i don't believe in evolution

once again, oversimplifying a complex issue to suit the needs of the creationists, this doesn't even deserve my attention. acosmist i'm sorry to report i don't think he's kidding at all, he's dead serious. tis a sad tale really, i would leave if i were you, that's what i'm doing, i need to vomit

"Hearing is just our experience of sound waves (which always existed)... its not a thing.
Its a sensation the brain makes up in response to an actual thing."

Yes, but that still doesn't explain why the ear evolved so that it can react to sound waves.

"someone give me the executive summary on whether this is a parody thread or not

I'm too busy for reading and such"

No, it's a thread I've thought about creating before.

Of course, your thesis behind your argument leaves out one incredibly important potential reasoning. Guided evolution... God's hand guiding the great experiment... I'm not talking the whack job ID folks who think a bunch of reeds carried animals from Africa and the Middle East to the Americas. But those of us who believe in Pangea and that God guided the development of all animals from single cell organisms through proto surface creatures to early mammals into early primates, then early man and finally modern man.

If you truly believe that all things are possible and God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, then he could easily guide the course of evolution and all things didn't have to spring up from the earth in their modern form.

I wonder how the forum evolved? Did someone first come up with a very basic forum, and then it randomly mutated until we started picking the best variant forums, which therefore became more common?

No. I think the solution is obvious. The forum was created by God. You see, the "Close" button right there is useless unless an "Open thread" link was created first. But under evolution (this fact/observation obviously proves evolution is wrong), the "Open thread" link button would never have been useful unless a "Close" button magically appeared at the same time. Since it's statistically impossible that they randomly and simultaneously just appeared, this is proof that God created the forum.




Or maybe some programmer did it. But "God made the forum" sounds cooler.

Does anyone have an idea on how the ear evolved?

The ear evolved so it could react to sound waves because then predators could be detected and avoided.
Sound causes vibrations, these could be picked up through a random mutation... mutations improved this and soon (millions of years) you get the ear.

I see what you're saying though, its hard to comprehend.

@Otto. Belief in miracles is a position that can be logically defended...

The ear evolved when primitive species were debating the "Tree falling in the woods" paradox and then someone was like "Um, we can't hear it because we don't have ears; let's evolve ears so this paradox makes any sense."

True story.

The ear appears to have arisen early in the evolution of the vertebrates. While there are significant interspecific differences in ear structure, it appears that receptor cell structure and the basic function of the ear and auditory system are similar among all vertebrate groups. In this paper we present the evolution of the sensory hair cells of the ear, the origins of the ear itself, and selected functions of the sense of hearing. We argue that there have been strong selective pressures in most vertebrate groups for the sorts of sound encoding and processing abilities that result in the efficient detection, localization, and identification of sound sources in noisy environments. Many of the encoding and processing strategies underlying these functions are shared as well.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9310196

Acosmist: that doesn't work. You can't discuss a paradox involving sound until you know what sound is.

miracles require God, God is illogical. wrong, pal, just wrong.

HOW PARADOXICAL EH

see what I did there

Illogical, otto?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/9/8/6/986243ab779fa1d9b4d9ab8e0d8342da.png

Look, these kinds of threads make me sick.

EVOLUTION IS NOT A RELIGION!!

It is a theory, albeit a very sound one. I take myself to be a rational person, and I see no conflict between the existence of God and the idea that Earth is 4.5 billion years old. Still, religious nutcases and atheistic hardasses consistently view these two points as completely and utterly incompatable as oil and water.

Oh, and Otto, please refrain from making such inflammatory comments: This is webdiplomacy, not 4chan.

"Evolution couldn’t have created hearing. It’s too complex to come by with random chance. "

To complex to appear in its advance state in a single step - granted. But that's not how evolution works. Evolutions works with tiny steps.

Heh, honestly, can we go one day without a flame war? Last night it was Griby98, tonight it's abiogenesis

triskelli if you are calling me an atheist hardass then you are very much mistaken! i am a confident agnostic tired of an arrogant majority, i will not stand for it any longer, and if i feel like swearing then fuck you i shall

otto did you work through the proof

To complex to appear in its advance state in a single step - granted. But that's not how evolution works. Evolutions works with tiny steps.

Yes, but the tiny steps need to happen for a purpose. I find that often times the end result can't come by unless many changes happen at once.