hahahahaha... spoken truly.

Iove how you are making conclusions when we haven't even come out of honeymoon yet.

@SPAO: I think he's being sarcastic. At least, I hope he's being sarcastic.

as do I.

Obama's great. He genuinely seems interested in making this country a better place. Buch never tried to consider other points of view but his own, and in his attempt to frighten the world, created one heck of a mess for everybody.

You want conclusions, mapleleaf is right. The last guy stunk. This guy's making peace and really trying his best in a tough tmie that the last guy created.

In what way is he making peace?

In what way is he not making peace? How did Bush make peace?

Do you think it's better to kill in the name of peace? Was Iraq a peaceful operation to you?

Asking if Iraq was a peaceful operation is beyond pointless. Invictus had a real question. You claimed he was making peace, Invictus asked how. Your response was how is he not making peace. That wasn't the question. I'm not making war on Albania right now. That doesn't mean 'I'm making peace'. Nor did Invictus ask about Bush, so I'm not sure why you brought him up.

It was a simple question really. How is Obama making peace like you claim he is?

Not being at war and 'making peace' are two entirely different things.

okay maintgallant, if you aren't joking...allow me shit on your parade.

http://www.military.com/news/article/March-2009/us-army-confirms-israeli-nukes.html?col=1186032310810
On page 37 of the U.S. Joint Forces Command report, the Army includes Israel within "a growing arc of nuclear powers running from Israel in the west through an emerging Iran to Pakistan, India, and on to China, North Korea, and Russia in the east."

1) The US lets slip that Israel has nukes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVGWdLsAoBA

2) Helen Thomas, in Obama's very first press conference, after inheriting a nation in it's worst financial position it's ever seen, asks a seemingly rather dumb question: What nation in the middle east has nukes?

Obama never directly answers.

http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a0676symingtonamendment
The legislation, which becomes known as the “Symington amendment,” bans US assistance to any country found to be trafficking in nuclear enrichment or reprocessing technology that is not governed by international safeguards.

3) Israel is not a signatory of the NPT or any other international agreement.

If Obama answers Helen Thomas truthfully and in the open, Israel's aid to the tune of $30 billion a year become illegal.

Who does Obama work for? The AMerican people sleeping on the streets? Or Israel?

Conclusion: Obama is just another puppet. Just like Bush.

wasnt our wonderful president talking about raising taxes back up to the pre 9/11 rates?

I'd hardly call the President of the United States a puppet of Israel, but you make good points there, Darwyn.

I still would like to hear maintgallant's reason for saying Obama is making peace.

If you want government, you need taxes. How else is this wondwerful congress supposed to remain in session?

Oh yeah, Congress is so wonderful...

"He genuinely seems interested in making this country a better place."

Yes, so what? So was Bush. They were both idealists. Bush actually did believe what he was doing was correct. If you asked either of them whether they like America, they'd say yes, and it'd be honest. Of course they are acting in what they think is the country's best interest - problem is, they are both completely wrong.

Could you honestly say that anyone would be completely correct in what is best of this country?
Of course not, (Unless you're an ego-maniac, or one of those uber-right-wingers...).
It's all a matter of perspective, and by that perspective, everything that everyone does is best for themselves, their country, or whatever higher power they seek to please.

@Onar: No, of course not. I didn't say they are bad because they are a tiny bit off. I said they are bad because they are so far off they either are idiots or have ulterior motives (I know the first applies to Bush, unless Cheney was making more decisions than I think; as for Obama, no idea which).

Uber-left-wingers can be so short sighted too.

*cough* Stalin *cough* Pol Pot *cough*

maint your arguments come across as childish and you beliefs sound like your are so high on obama's promises that you are completely ignorant to the actual facts

Obama is doing a super job. When I talk to folks in the community - he has a lot of support, now, that has been earned on the job. By that I mean people who were, during the election, not impressed or believers in Obama, but understood that the alternative was not acceptable, are now positively accepting his leadership. It is refreshing to have a president who can speak knowledgeably and analytically, even expertly, about any facet of government policy.

Poor George Bush, he always sounded like he was reciting his latest briefing from his tutors about any issue, and on a most superficial level at that. He would always end these little recitals of his command of the subject with a self-congratulatory expression as if he must be saying to himself - "weow, I really nailed that - I can't believe I remembered all that. A personal best right there - yeah".

Funny thing is, his explanations usually amounted to a recital of basic facts that even the guy riding the back of the garbage truck could likely tell you. I not sure whether that relief and self-satisfied expression came because he was so obviously impressed with his own acumen or that no one in the room pronounced him a fucking idiot.

Oliver Stone wanted to be the first to made a movie about G. W. Bush. Too Late - it was made around 25 years ago. "Being There" with Peters Sellers. I would "highly" recommend that movie. Folks at this Forum would love it. It is from the story - novella - of the same name by Jerzy Kosinski.

Looks like you have company in the childish arguments and beliefs, maintgallant.

See above.

Because someone doesn't like bush, they're instantly childish?
Granted, he had no charisma, whatsoever. Aside from Regan, no republican was really all that likeable. And Regan fell from grace when I realised that his policies were complete nonsense. But that's beside the point.
Actually, my point is about charismatic leaders. Obama, Clinton, erm... Hitler. They were all likeable while they were in power, and very difficult to make fun of/disobey.

I don't know who Regan is. Is he related to President Reagan?

I think Abraham Lincoln was pretty likable.

What planet did you live on in the 90s where Clinton was difficult to make fun of?

Damn, I knew I spelled his name wrong. Maybe I should rephrase, when people made fun of clinton, it was in a more... friendly sense. Bush's caricatures were more harsh, some may even say hurtful.
As to Lincoln, isn't it sad that we have to look that far back to see a likeable republican? Not to mention that he was somewhat unpopular while in-office...

It's hard to tell from now, but I think Lincoln was not considered likable at the time.

Obama is doing better than I expected, I'll leave it at that.

"Obama is doing better than I expected, I'll leave it at that."
I can agree to that. The world didn't burst into flames, so I'm somewhat happy.
He's like an over-hyped movie. Even if he lives up to expectations, you'd be somewhat disappointed, no?

God, it was a joke. Everyone like Eisenhower and Nixon won 49 states in 1972. Everyone loved Bush till Iraq started to go sour. Remember those times?

There have been hated Democrats. Take Carter. And LBJ. Truman's only recovered after 60 years and even that's through rose colored glasses.

Your analysis is far too partisan against Republicans. Once they are in office, the party is irrelevant and it is merely the man that counts.

You are being ridiculous, Onar.

I'm just speaking from experience. Republicans seemed to be less liked. I never said they were worse presidents, just that they traditionally weren't as charismatic.
Not to say the democrats are any more charismatic, but it's a case of "Giant Douche" versus "Turd Sandwhich."
Personally, I don't like either.