you would be a non-christian

this all seems relevant to diplomacy. I personally pray to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. We meet at Olive Garden every friday, please come join us for dinner mass. FSM be with you

Define Christian Sicarius, without Googling or Wiking...

I'm going to assume that you are not just being a troll.
Let's see, I love the Lord God with all of my heart and soul.
I believe that he sent his only Son to us to show us the correct path.
I have faith that the true message of Christianity shows us one of the paths to true happiness and love towards our fellow man.

Incorrect assumption, Fedral.

He's trolling.

Whatever the original poster's intent, that doesn't have to stop this being an interesting discussion.
Personally, I consider myself Christian, though I know people who wouldn't. Though I don't consider that the person known as Jesus Christ was any more or less divine than anyone else on the planet, before or since, I do consider his moral teachings to be valid and useful, as are some of the other moral teachings that have come through the Abrahamic tradition, though they must be filtered through the fact that we now live in a world very different to the original writers.
So I consider myself Christian because I follow the moral teachings of Jesus, though I don't consider him divine. I am Christian by that definition because I consider those moral teachings good ones to live by.

"Thou shall not steal..."

Where has the Sic gone?

Worldbeing, what I understand from that is that, although not Christian, which I define as one who believes Christ was a deity, died and rose from the dead, you follow christian ethics, which are the basis of most Western law. I too would fall in that category. I am an atheist agnostic, atheist because I find it incredible that something such as a God could exist, however agnostic as it is clearly impossible to unequivically prove so.

I'm a dyslexic agnostic. I can see absolutely no reason to believe that there really is a dog.

This is going to get messy. These conversations always do.

Because I was born in a Christian evnironment :).
I would assume that if I was born in a muslim country I would be muslim, etc.
Few people chose (change) their religion - most just 'inherit' it - which makes the whole thing somewhat dubious :)

lol, Clod. :)

Well I am a Christian, Southern Baptist if we are asking for Denomination too. I grew up in a Christian environment but I don't consider it an inheritance it was my choice to follow Christ. Except I also agree with you and some people do just inherit whatever their parents or relatives believe. Not trying to argue with Ivo_ivanov.

i agree with ivo completely. i grew up in a atheist cynical socialist environment....and have stayed that way.

I grew up in a Catholic environment and am now atheist.

Expanding on Ivo's statement I think that most religions are the centre of any culture, so you 'inherit' much of the practices rather than the beliefs directly. Even if you become an atheist or agnostic later in life you will still probably share many of the values and be able to connect strongly with those practices. Someone born Catholic turned atheist would still probably celebrate christmas/easter, feel uncomfortable working on Sundays and obey the majority if not all of the ten commandments. Even if they believe there to be no consequences for it.

I personally would define myself as an atheistic existentialist, although I am ultimately agnostic. I believe that there very well could be a supreme being so to speak, but that the assumption should be that there is nothing without stronger proof than that that is available. Beyond that as an existentialist I believe that the meaning in life is created by yourself rather than any metaphysical forces.

"...follow christian ethics, which are the basis of most Western law..."
I'm going to call bullshit on this statement. Sure Christianity has influenced it, just like it influenced everything 200-300 years ago but the basis of Western law stems more from the enlightenment then from religion. Most of our rights and freedoms we cherish today we fought for against organized religions (and well kings and stuff).

I'm here, reading.
no I'm not trolling

I am curious as to how/why people beleive in christianity

question for ivo, do you beleive in christianity?
very intrested to see your answer

sic, you ask
"do you believe in Christianity?"
first what do you mean by the word "Christianity" ?
then people can answer.

scepticka, yes we had to fight tooth and nail to get our rights from inbred parasite snobs (also called royal families) and an autocratic social control system(also referred to as the catholic church)

Christianity.
yiu follow the bible and beleive that a man named jesus, who was gods son, died on the cross to absolve your sin

I have faith.

But I also believe that the concept of a human-defined religion speaking for God (e.g. claiming to represent and understand a Supreme Being/Power in full) is a contradiction in terms.

It's like, if the bacteria in my body decided that I was their god and made a religion around this - claiming to understand what I am all about :)

As far as Christianity - apologies to all fanatics :) - but this is probably the religion that has caused more suffering and death than Hitler and Stalin combined. Pick your choice from persecutions, witch-hunts, crusades, the Inquisition, etc.

The only good thing is that Western society (Christians) has evolved to a level where religion is taken mostly as a set of good ideas (of which there're a lot in Christianity) - what is good/evil and there're some pretty cool holidays :)

so if you dont beleive in human defined religion how are you a christian?

I guess I'm looking for the, let's say average christian.
or 'mainstream' christian

If you don't mind, I will put here mmy opinion:
If you believe that there is a perfect entity who creates the whole word, and also a lot of imperfect entities (for example, Lucifer), and if you believe that they (Gos and Satan) were waiting until dinosaurs extinction to tempt humans into sin or good actions, then you are ready to believe any incredible lie of this world (for example, USA is looking for mass destruction weapons, not oil).
Most people believe stupid lies because religion bestows real entity to supernatural things. No one ever prove its existence, but anybody believes that there are spirits rounding us, and a lot of silly affirmations like this.
No matter if science disproves each word of the Bible, whit thousands of years spending mountains of money in positioning, most people even believes in a superstitious reality, rather than real facts. And that’s good for the persons who manage the world. For example, if you are very poor, don’t stole food, you can end your life in “starving mode” without problems because God is waiting with another life for you, eternal and full of nutriment. You can also live a poor man life, cleaning toilets for rich people, because God will reward you with eternal happy life.
Religion is not a reference about supernatural entities, is just a way to keep people calm.

..the opiate of the masses..

hey I agree with you. I think religion, and Christianity in particular are completly ridiculous

I just want to know how someone can look at facts and science and logic and common sense and say "meh"

also I want to add that I'm not trying to offend anyone. I may not agree with what you beleive, and I probably think it's stupid, but you have the right ot beleive whatever

"so if you dont beleive in human defined religion how are you a christian?"
As I said - I was born in a Christian environment - so if I have to categorize my beliefs I would have to say they were largely influenced by Christianity. This is what I know - I identify myself with the many of the Chistian concepts, but distance myself from the institutions (the Church).

"I just want to know how someone can look at facts and science and logic and common sense and say "meh"

Well, you see - the fact is that if believe that strongly that there's no higher power/energy of some sort than you are also 'religious' about it. Atheism is also a religion :) - and it rejects everything else, the same was Christianity does.

Your God is science, or math - and you think they are more reasonable and logical than the other Gods. And, while this might be true, all reason and logic are void when you start rejecting all other alternatives :)

And, you are not offending anyone but yourself with this "and I probably think it's stupid, but you have the right ot beleive whatever" - I mean - you have it all figured out I guess :) - nothing more to learn in this life :)

on the contrary I love to learn. that would be why I started this thread.
science, math, logic, reason, these are not my gods.

I have no gods. no masters.

I hate science, for many reasons, and history is the most widely beleived fairy tale there is
I dont use science to slander christianity
it does a fine job of that itself

also I never said I was an atheist