I do see this happening, sort of. Our pro-european highly educated people are not the ruling class, and I doubt they make up 30% here. Otherwise, I certainly observe this kind of divide growing here in the Czech Republic. It's not fun, especially when the anti-european traditionalists are pretty racist. Not quite actively so, but very racist. Also, we have neo-nazis and people who want the communist regime back. And, people who clearly stopped giving a shit years ago, and vote for the party they last saw a billboard for.

Essentially, the anti-europeans are annoying, but not our main problem. The pro-europeans are mostly just assholes to everyone else, which is why we're getting so polarized. Then there are the horrible people.

Of course, our president just said he doesn't recognize the sovereignty of the Republic of China (Taiwan) and spent a big national celebration on a vacation with Russian spies, diplomats etc.

That article is huge.
Out of curiosity, what makes you define the 30% as ruling class? Do you mean they have the highest incomes or something else?

I assume the type of people politicians are chosen from. You know, doctors, lawyers, businessmen.

I see. Surely one can become a politician without having (finished) an education other than high school though?

Other than that, the 70% can vote if they want. If they don't, they sort of choose to go with whatever the 30% decide. If they aren't pissed enough to vote, there's not really a problem is there?

Just bouncing off incomplete thoughts here.

Here in Croatia, everyone is more or less pro-European.

As for the political climate in general, it's stagnating. The decades-old fight between the communists and the nationalists is gradually becoming irrelevant. The people are waiting for a messiah to pull them out of the economic crisis.

in Holland only the 30% is highly skilled?!

@redhouse: research agency Motivaction has done some amazing work on analysing Dutch society. They basically confirm - empirically - that that thesis is roughly correct. However, they also have a few other categories of citizenry (still roughly corresponding to the traditional / modern make up you mention). It's quite interesting work. Most of it is behind a paywall for commissioned work only (mostly political parties), but some of it may be available in the pd as well.

@Apei8arxos
Only?! It's 9% in Croatia. Where do you live?

Also @redhouse: hat-tip for awesome reading tip... if you speak Dutch.

My plash

*pleasure

Dutch is not bard to read ... Just unpronounceable.

Hard. Thanks, auto-corrupt.

"auto-corrupt"
Is that a mistake? Quite funny either way.

"Of course, our president just said he doesn't recognize the sovereignty of the Republic of China (Taiwan) and spent a big national celebration on a vacation with Russian spies, diplomats etc."

And you're complaining?

You weren't invited

Putin33
Yes I'm complaining. I am from a country which the russo-communist regime systematically raped for about 40 years. So when I see my president first go to the most powerful (theoretically) communist regime he can find and gives full support, it ticks me off. When my president spends national holidays with representatives of a country that has invaded his country, and was still occupying it 25 years ago with almost no practical change in policy (as far as imperialism) is concerned, it pisses me off. The president of the Czech Republic should be expressing support to the Ukraine, not to Russia and China.

Because the Czech Republic has had such a good experience before when kowtowing to fascists and mass murderers like Poroshenko and his corrupt regime?

Your hysterical interpretation of Czech history is ridiculous, but I'm sure you'll play the "I'm a Czech" card so why bother even debating your asinine claims.

Anyway mercifully your countrymen don't seem to share your pathological hatred of communism and love for fascist countries like Ukraine. Even your rightwing politicians have typically had very sensible historical views and a good foreign policy.

Kowtowing to fascists? Are you referring to the second republic or to the protectorate? I know the Czechs do not have a stellar record in the 2nd world war and aftermath. I don't see what that has to do with the Czech Republic being a Soviet protectorate that got invaded for an attempt at democratization.

I do not hate communism, I just think it goes too far, and that the Soviet brand was just plain stupid.

I'm American, so I don't know if I'm allowed to comment, but if I lived in Europe I would be very anti-EU. I do not like global governments / organizations. I very much an a national pride person and I don't think we should be looking to become a one-nation, one-world society.

Personally, I don't share that view. Would you support the US being separated into its constituent states? The EU is a very loose confederation, and so far mostly an economic and aid union, and a high court. If the EU disappeared, trade would suddenly become harder, moving across borders would be harder, living in other countries would be harder, all the efforts to institute common standards in member states would fall apart. The EU is not perfect, but it is acceptable, and it is certainly a good idea. National pride is stronger here than it is for individual states, and language is a barrier, but it's worth working over, if only for the opportunity to be employed and to learn outside your country without working out visas and stuff.

The US separating into separate states isn't exactly the same, though. The country was formed with the states from the beginning, not formed after hundreds/thousands of years of time.

I don't have any issue with the economic or living portions of the EU. I'm more against the EU parliament and any voting that is involved. In the same way I wouldn't want the UN to be able to legislate US law, I wouldn't want the EU to legislate [insert country here] law.

Ah, but most of the US states weren't states from the start. Texas, Hawaii, Alaska... I'm also not sure exactly why the method of formation matters so much.

It's really not that different from federal law applying nation-wide. The federal government (which is named after the continent it is on) can legislate law in the US.

phil_a_s: You know that very few states recognize the Republic of China, right?
See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Taiwan#Entities_with_full_diplomatic_relations_with_Taiwan

See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Taiwan#Entities_with_full_diplomatic_relations_with_Taiwan