Really? One asshat on a TV show made to entertain says something provocative to, gee, I don't know, *boost ratings* and you judge an entire group of people on it? Fuck you, obiwanobiwan.

To rote liberals like obiwanobiwan, anything critical of homosexuality is gay bashing, any comment about race that doesn't use the right shibboleths is defending Jim Crow. And then to throw in a wholly unsubstantiated inference he's antisemitic... it's appalling.

Free speech only exists to these people if it's speech they agree with.

(In fairness, we Americans can be assholes to just about any group, but to paraphrase a stand-up routine--
"'Fuck all these Iraqis, man, fuck them, I'm American!'
And then it became 'Fuck all these foreigners, man, don't need them, I'm American!'
And then it was 'Fuck all these illegal immigrants, man, fuck them, I'm American!'
And THEN I started paying attention 'cause I knew n****** and Jews was next...
That train's never late!")

"I never, with my eyes, saw the mistreatment of any black person. Not once," the reality star said of growing up in pre-Civil-Rights-era Louisiana. "Where we lived was all farmers. The blacks worked for the farmers. I hoed cotton with them. I'm with the blacks, because we're white trash. We're going across the field ... They're singing and happy. I never heard one of them, one black person, say, 'I tell you what: These doggone white people' — not a word!"

Robertson continued, "Pre-entitlement, pre-welfare, you say: Were they happy? They were godly; they were happy; no one was singing the blues."

I'm going to operate under the (dangerous) assumption everyone sees what's wrong with the first part of that statement and no one is going to side with Phucking Phil there...

So I'll jump ahead a bit and ask--

Do folks here really associate blacks with "entitlement" and "welfare?"

I get that maybe a higher percentage of blacks are on welfare than other sections of the population...but leaving aside the fact that there's a LONG argument about why that is and who's to blame there alone for just one minute...

If there's ANY group that comes across as "entitled" to me in American society it's the WASPs and variations thereon (ex. Mitt Romney's not a Protestant, but white and wealthy and Christian by way of Mormonism.)

Wealthy White Christians (and I mean ALL THREE TOGETHER here, so I'm NOT saying all whites, or all wealthy folks, or all Christians, I'm referring JUST that special intersection of the three) seem to feel they're entitled to a hell of a lot, and can just trample over minorities or other groups or legislate as if they're the de facto group/ the only group that counts/that they care about.

If you want to make an argument blacks are snooty and all Carlton Banks-esque entitled snobs, be my guest...please, enlighten me how one of the most trod-on social groups in the US is "entitled."

Obi - fuck off for lumping all Wealthy White Christians (I happen to be one you mother fucker) with a redneck on a fucking TV show trying to get its ratings up by being an asshat. You really don't see what you are doing wrong by *stereotyping* people when, if we did it to you fucking Christ Killers (a term you used above), you'd be up in fucking arms about it!

How can you make him out to be "entitled" when your own link talks about how he's white trash and worked in the fields with the blacks in his youth? I've seen like three episodes of this fairly awful show and even I know this family built a business from nothing.

This is a new low for your demonstrated analytic ability. Being out of school has atrophied your already mushy talent.

"Really? One asshat on a TV show made to entertain says something provocative to, gee, I don't know, *boost ratings* and you judge an entire group of people on it? Fuck you, obiwanobiwan."

Who'd I judge, Draug?

Who, in my initial post, did I "judge" besides Phil-boy here?

I went on to argue against White Wealthy Christians...and I'll maintain that stance...

But you posted your criticism BEFORE I said that, so tell me, who was I targeting BEFORE I posted my tome (which you were as always inb4, Invictus, so kudos.)

"To rote liberals like obiwanobiwan, anything critical of homosexuality is gay bashing, any comment about race that doesn't use the right shibboleths is defending Jim Crow."

1. Illuminate me--what are the "right shibboleths" concerning race, as I have to assume you don't side with a "Jim Crow was better, blacks were happy then" stance, which is all I was arguing against?

2. Yes, I think any gay bashing is bad...the same way I think any bashing of blacks or Jews or Muslims or Latinos for their race/for WHAT THEY ARE is bad...you don't?

3. He DID defend Jim Crow by saying blacks were happier then...that doesn't seem like an endorsement/defense to you?

"And then to throw in a wholly unsubstantiated inference he's antisemitic... it's appalling."

Given how literally this guy takes the Bible--take his views on homosexuality--and the fact he's now slammed two minorities, just saying, I wouldn't be surprised...like it or not, there's a pretty strong strain of Strong Christianity being correlated with Strong Anti-Semitism in history, and Phil isn't exactly coming off like a progressive exception to that rule here.

"Free speech only exists to these people if it's speech they agree with."

BULL. SHIT.

Did I at ANY point he wasn't FREE to make an asshat of himself?

NO!

He's free to do so, Invictus, just like *I* am free to (arguably make an asshat of myself) and criticize what HE said!

Criticism of what someone says is NOT a refutation of free speech, but an exercise of it on the critic's behalf!

What's the alternative--I shouldn't be allowed to criticize him for being wrong, or thinking he's wrong? How is that free speech?

This is probably the dumbest thread currently on the front page.

Obi, there is no need for me to call you anything – you have already self-incriminated yourself in that you apparently are one of the mindless sheeple that feeds the mush between your ears with this drivel.

As I don’t have cable, I can not watch this crap and am wholly unaware of the issue apart from the idiotic headlines which I have studiously ignored.

If I had cable, I can assure you with all my corrupt heart that my TV would *never ever* settle upon such garbage.

You are a laughable fool, as always.

I'm not going to bother unpacking 1, 2, and 3 since you entirely missed the thrust of what I said. You don't try and understand others' points, you pin on what you think they must have said so you can whip out a canned response.

Whith regards to your libelous claim of antisemitism, you're just making shit up to prove your point. Evangelicals are the most pro-Israel, pro-Jewish group in America. They go over to the West Bank to help build settlements and work Israeli fields! You just WANT him to be antisemitic, and have no evidence to back it up.


As for free speech, what you're doing isn't criticism. What is happening to him isn't criticism. It's punishment for voicing his own personal opinions, which some find objectionable. For a Hitchens fanboy you really don't seem to understand what he said about freedom of speech.

"Obi - fuck off for lumping all Wealthy White Christians"

I didn't lump you into one group ideologically, I said that I feel your group has a certain "entitlement" about it--that's all. I said NOTHING about your ideologies, and didn't lump you together in that way at all.

That being said, you can't deny that White Wealthy Christians have an incredible amount of sway and a sense of entitlement when it comes to the legislation in this country...

When we talk about "school prayer," and that's brought up for debate, we're NOT talking about Rabbinic or Islamic prayer, are we?

Tacitly, we're talking about CHRISTIAN prayer.

It's White Wealthy Christians that argue this is a CHRISTIAN nation (a view you've backed in the past yourself, Draug.)

The extent to which I am "lumping you together" is by saying your group feels extra entitled when it comes to how this country ought to be run and what its moral and ethical ideology should be.

"How can you make him out to be "entitled" when your own link talks about how he's white trash and worked in the fields with the blacks in his youth?"

Because he seems to think he's entitled to call out gays as sinners, bash someone else's lifestyle, call it "illogical" to be a gay, and assume that White Christian is the de facto in this country and that it's completely OK to bash other groups like this in the name of a White Christian view (and now a Wealthy White Christian view as he's now a wealthy man?)

"I've seen like three episodes of this fairly awful show and even I know this family built a business from nothing."

Good for him-doesn't change his being an ass, and doesn't change his being entitled insofar as I mean it, ie, feeling like he is entitled to a de facto ideological position which he is not entitled to take...I'm sorry, but White Christian is NOT the de facto anymore, and you cannot make statements assuming that it is anymore.

"Being out of school has atrophied your already mushy talent."

Nah, that'd be the dozens of articles for Dr. Oz's crappy diet pills and male enhancement pills--"conquer your insecurity over your tiny tadger and buy Tadalafil today!"--that I write.

Write enough of that crap and you'll sound as shitty as I do too. :p

Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism. This distinction is vital.

"you have already self-incriminated yourself in that you apparently are one of the mindless sheeple that feeds the mush between your ears with this drivel."

Dare I say only sheeple use the not-word "sheeple?"

"Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism. This distinction is vital."

+1 mendax...

Phil bashing gays and blacks? "Freedom of speech!"

Criticizing that stance? "Hey, how dare you use your freedom of speech to bash what that guy said utilizing his freedom of speech!"

"Because he seems to think he's entitled to call out gays as sinners, bash someone else's lifestyle, call it "illogical" to be a gay, and assume that White Christian is the de facto in this country and that it's completely OK to bash other groups like this in the name of a White Christian view"

He is. What was that you were saying about freedom of speech?

What you're doing isn't criticism. It's an attempt to silence differing views.

"You just WANT him to be antisemitic, and have no evidence to back it up."

I'll toss the Anti-Semitism if you want...though if it ever comes up again I reserve the right to an "I told you so..."

That still leaves his bashing gays and saying blacks were happy in the Jim Crow South, all built around an idea that is constructed from a position that White Christianity is the de facto "right" position in this country, a position that is NOT the de facto position as the Republican Party learned in 2012 when they WON the White Christian vote and LOST the election.

"What you're doing isn't criticism. It's an attempt to silence differing views."

How?

Did I suggest he be fired?
Did I suggest he be silenced?
Did I suggest he be made to stop talking in any way, in any form, at all, whatsoever?
NO.

I am CRITICIZING his statement...I'll defend his right to be a bigoted asshat all he wants, but I am still allowed to criticize him when he decides to be one.

@invictus: just one thing: "anything critical of homosexuality is gay bashing".
well can you give an example of something "critical of homosexuality" that is not gay bashing?

"He is. What was that you were saying about freedom of speech?"

I will clarify my use of "entitled"--

Is he legally entitled to say that?
Of course.
Should he expect a position of entitlement for his statement, ie, that it be taken as the de facto position?
No.

THAT is what I mean when I say he assumes a position of entitlement.

"Dare I say only sheeple use the not-word "sheeple?" "

this was not a denial.

Read your own link. He said blacks he knew were happy, not that all blacks were happy under Jim Crow. Can you read? As for the comments on gays, read that one too. He said he disapproves and doesn't understand it, and believes it's a sin. Is that really so awful? Calling anything that isn't 100% supportive, accepting, and loving of homosexuality is gay bashing is ridiculous.

What the hell is White Christianity? You, again, just make things up to suit your rhetorical whims. You're like a stupider Derrida.

Criticism =/= bashing. SOME criticism is bashing. Other criticism is just criticism.

It's you hyper-senstive assholes that have to turn everything in to a fucking war that are making this country so unpleasant.

When did ass-fucking become a sacred cow for god's sake?

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/wake_up_sheeple.png

What would you like me to deny, krellin?

That I'm an idiot?

I deny that.

...And you're all free to use your freedom of speech to criticize me and say I am without a pack of people calling out "How DARE you criticize him!"

...Granted nobody ever WOULD say that on my behalf, but I digress. :p

@krellin: love =/= sex.

"When did ass-fucking become a sacred cow for god's sake?"

1. That's nice and hateful,
2. When we passed the 14th Amendment and it's Equal Protection Clause (at least that's what LGBT groups and lawyers have argued for decades, so I'll reiterate it)
3. When did vagina-fucking become a sacred cow?

Or are your sexual preferences sacred and others just...not...because, well, you don't like them?

Obi - I don't want you to deny anything - what you are is clear to all. And perhaps you are too mentally dull to grasp my point, which had nothing to do with the so-called controversy (manufactured made-for-sheeple bullshit)...you are an idiot, if that is the label you prefer, because you apparently watch this bullshit.

"American Asshole Trifecta"

That is a judgment, pussy fart!