Eh. What are you going to do?

Personally, I think we would be a lot closer to the ideal distribution if we didn't bend over for every corporation that came around. This is the result of unchecked corruption, not weak government or low taxes.

Haha GF you amaze me.

"What are you going to do?" you shrug, as if there is no solution to this problem so we may as well dismiss it.

Why don't we look at other modern countries who aren't quite so completely fucked and see what they do, for starters? Why don't we say the #1 best thing we can do as a society is to cut this disparity down at all costs? Why don't we agree, me and you, progressive and conservative, that this just plain old isn't right and we won't accept "eh, whatcha gonna do?" as a solution?

Sorry if I sound a little apathetic. I intend to play along with the fucked-up system just long enough to get enough money to get my own remote mountain cabin with one hundred thousand rounds of assorted ammunition and my guns. I'm going to build a porch on my cabin, get a nice TV with cable news, sit on that porch with my M14 and watch the world go down the toilet on CNN. If anyone wants to bother me at my cabin, they are more than welcome to try. Castle doctrine, bitch.

On a more serious note, I propose that we un-fuck the government before we start talking about expanding its role. Do you really think that this wealth inequality would be possible without federal government help? If you ask me, lobbyists can burn in hell along with lawyers, politicians, communists, and religious extremists.

I think there are multiple causes and I would not dismiss anything out of hand. I think the best way to fix the issue, however, is to examine places where the disparity isn't so bad, and try to understand what they do differently. I think this would be a lot more effective than the usual "conservative shouts for reduction of government, liberal shouts for increase in it" that America loves so much.


Let's agree on what we can agree on: that neither of us really knows for sure where all the sources of the problem are. That's the only way we can both be open minded about potential fixes.

"Let's agree on what we can agree on: that neither of us really knows for sure where all the sources of the problem are. That's the only way we can both be open minded about potential fixes."

Of course. To be honest, I'm quite cynical about the problem because it's so complex and nuanced.

As a libertarian, I would favor whatever solution involves shrinking the role and footprint of the federal government, but that doesn't mean I'm willing to submit to the ultra-rich. I strongly favor strict term limits, a ban on lobbying, and campaign finance reform. Just like any automobile engine, our federal government functions much better when it is clean and tuned up. Let's clean up the corruption with term limits, a ban on lobbying, and campaign finance reform. That's a start that just about every average joe can agree on.

Any solution will have to be comprehensive, and good luck passing that anytime in the near future in America.

Which brings me back to my remote mountain cabin idea. I might be bumping my living standards back by 100 years and abandoning my fellow Americans to fend for themselves but at least I won't be getting fucked by corporations and CEOs on a daily basis.

lol "inequality"

Being in Brew's class, I was floored by this. I knew it was pretty bad, but I didn't think that is was THIS awful. It's inevitable that some people are going to be better off financially than others, and it keeps the economy healthy and moving forward, but this extreme level of disparity is disturbing.

You want to see the real chart? Let's look at what the lowest 20% of Americans -- and see what they have compared to the rest of the world.

Regardless of whether or not the top 20% or top 1% make a million or a gazilllion more than the lowest earns - SO WHAT?

Contrary to popular opinion, the lowest 20% have roofs over their heads, they have food in the stomachs, they have TV and phones and...and they live the fucking life of *luxury* compared to a disgustingly large percentage of the world.

This is far less a matter of the top earners "stealing" the wealth of the poor...because that's what all you financially illiterate think....because...uh....the poor DON'T HAVE MONEY TO STEAL by the rich.

This is more about the top earners "creating" wealth

And if you are really that concerned about people "creating" wealth, then why the fuck were the majority of you fools in favor of Obama rasing the debt limit by $1 Trillion dollars? Because that imaginary wealth that OBama created -- where do you think it gets injected in to the economy? You think he gives it to the poor? Or do you think Obama himself knows that that $1Trillion gets injected into the economy via the mechanism of the 1% bankers that you all pretend to hate...but whom you just supported getting another $1 Trillion in fake money brought in through the free money give-away to the banks.

Good lord....this sort of narrow-minded propoganda is amazing. It professes to be some brilliant educational tool while telling you about 1% of the story....thus leaving you still uneducated, but now full of some more liberal claptrap....which is ironic, because it is the demented liberal machine that gives Obama the thumbs up to giving wealth to the super rich...
sigh...

The last two minutes I spent reading and the following minute I spent digesting the above post were the biggest waste of my life.

Waitwaitwaitwaitwait...
why the hell do you have to bring up Obama and the debt here. Furthermore, no one said anything about the rich "stealing" from the poor, it was merely commented on that there is a massive wealth gap in the country.
Also, no one on this thread so far has vocally supported Obama in any way. In fact, the people here are complaining about the status quo, and saying it needs to change.

In Krellinspeak:
WHAT the HELL ARE YOU SMOKING???
***OBAMA*** WASNT EVEN MENTIONED IN THE THREAD, DUMBASS!!! WHY DONT YOU ACTUALLY ***READ*** THE THREAD before BITCHING AND MOANING
...i just can't understand these people *shakes head*

Krellin used thread jack! It was super effective!

@grking -- well....if the rich didn't steal it from the poor (which is generally the assertion of libtards,whether or not this video states it)...then they made the money on their own.

If they did not harm to the poor to gain their wealth, then they either made it legitimately...or they got it through some other ill-gotten means...

So what is your beef with the wealth gap. It's a meaningless statistic.

Let's say for a minute that you have a Big Mac, and it's enough to feed you dinner. And then someone else comes along and they have 50,000 big macs. So what? Does this mean you suddenly have less big mac than you need?

So this whole fucking topic is about....WHAT? It's not about the average American saying "I don't have enough"...because the average American...in fact the vast, overwhelming majority of Americans DO have enough to live and survive and die content....if they choose to be content. They are fed, they are housed, they drive, watch tv and live their lives....

The only reason people are not content is because of stupid shit like this....so what, someone else has a gazillion times more money than you. Who the fuck cares.

If we knocked them down to the point they had the same as you, would that someohow make you feel better? Not really...you'd just find something else to bitch about.

And if they didn't take the money from you, then you can't ask that they give it back to you....so you just don't want them to have what they have.

What is also never asked by any of these assinine things is what these peole are doing to get this money, what they are doing for society in general with this money once they have it, and how their activities benefit you and society as a whole.

This sort of liberal vomit is just meaningless class envy bullshit.

Note...there is no solution suggested in this brilliant video, right? So...it's only purpose is what? To rile up the sheep...and here you all are. Bahhhh ah ah ah ah a....Good little sheep. Time for your sheering.

And grking...puhhhhh-lease....this forum is **rotten** with morons that support Obama, even though when you try to nail them down on issues - such as asking them why this latest $1 Trillion in debt over 3 months without any structural changes to spending to the debt was a good thing....they gobber and moo and bleat and can't answer.

I'm *certain* you would be one of them...

I actually think krellin makes an important point. I'll defer saying what I think of the video and the facts it presents. I do have opinions, somewhat complicated ones, but I want to explore y'all's first.

You all are appalled at this inequality. I'm very curious -- why? Not a trick question. I mean are you appalled for practical reasons, moral reasons, or what exactly? Because the truth is, krellin is exactly right. On a world scale, YOU, the middle class American worker, are about where that rich guy is on the chart.

Go play with http://www.globalrichlist.com/ a little bit. Then answer my question. It's a straightforward question, and I'm very interested in your answers.

Semck. Answer this question. How can there be any meaningful democracy under those conditions.

Well said krellin.

I already said I'd answer the question when I was good and ready, SC. You think you can browbeat me? I'm interested in hearing others' responses to my question first. If you don't want to answer my question, that's perfectly fine. (You already kind of did, actually, and your answer is interesting).

I don't care about the wealth gap so much as the minimum standard of living (which is fairly shitty). If even the poorest people had access to good healthcare, healthy food, a clean place to live, and access to decent education, I really couldn't care less how many gold-plated yachts the 1% launched out of chinooks for sport.

Brow beat you, I asked you a question. And yes, the answer as to why we should care is that it is nearly impossible for a healthy democracy that serves the needs of the cast majority of us to exist when ridiculously disproportionate money and power is in the hands of a tiny minority.

We separate the world into countries, which inherently leads to separation of classes. In the grander scheme of things, Americans are upper class. Everyone knows that and everyone appreciates it. I've seen people that are deprived much more than an "impoverished" American. That's all great.

But how in the world that means that such a wide disparity in this individual country is not worth fixing is beyond me. That's what krellin is preaching as far as I understand.

And this isn't an anti republican stance, you all know the rich democrats that you hate. The question remains, do these titans of wealth really have our interests in mind? Forget standing tow to tow with them politically, we can't even get in the same building.

*toe to toe

Abge - the issues you bring up are not caused by the wealth gap. Failing public schools in the inner city are not for lack of money -- on the contrary, we pump a hell of a lot of money in to failing schools.

Health care -- people get it, whether or not they have insurance. Is it the "best" health care? Nope...but even under Obamacare there will still be teirs of coverage, and the wealthiest will get better care -- so this argument is somewhat disengenuous.

Healthy food - available, for cheaper than most people think. McDonalds is the easy choice (and *expensive* choice) people make...it is not thrust upon them. I think the "we don't have healthy food" argument is far too often construed as one of access, when it is far more often a matter of choice.

But primarily, you could *confiscate* the wealth of the top 20% and redistribute it, and we would be right back in to the same problems a few short years later...

@krellin

I didn't say it was due to the wealth gap. I said this (different) problem concerns me more than the wealth gap.

I think Obamacare is a step in the right direction, but I agree it has serious flaws.

No, healthy food is not available everywhere, especially in many inner cities. Fresh fruits and vegetables can be very hard to find or are prohibitively expensive.

The beauty of this is you so-called hard-working 'Middle Classes' are not really in the middle at all ........ and yet you will defend the rich like they need it, a misplaced loyalty to the greedy, they don't give a fuck about you, keep their taxes low and they become ever more super-rich while you struggle to make ends meet on a monthly basis.
That is why I keep saying the following 2 things and it is so simple it's boring:-
1) To clear the govt debt you wealth tax the Super-Rich.
2) To get back to economic growth you GIVE money to the poorest in the country, and that includes the struggling people who mistakenly call themselves middle-class where they actually laden with personal debt and struggling.
The difference in many overseas 'poor' countries is that the so-called poor have no debts and have a healthier lifestyle, they somehow get by without a Maccy Ds and Starbucks on each corner and don't have or need a mortgage of US$200k, don't kid yourself you're better off than them 'cos you're not.
So forget the Republican/Democrat debate, it's the way the rich divide and rule.
The real battle is the Rich vs Poor, the Super-Rich are the takers from your economy, not the people on benefits. And do the rich guys work 100 times harder than you in a day, because they what they earn sitting on their arse and doing nothing, apart from laughing at the poor 'Middle-Class' Republicans defending the system of low taxes ...... what time does the 'trickle-down' start again, it must be coming soon surely ..... hahaha !!
Wake up and smell the cappafrappacino guys, time to make the rich pay !!

Wow... I finally thought I found a stat not involving puppy murder that would be equally horrific to conservatives and progressives.

I thought it was something we could all agree on.

Silly me.

Yep YJ, but consider this a lesson in how separated the worlds of the right and left have become in this country. We feel the same way all the time, too.

I just wish there was a way to have a conversation about it without screaming at eachother.

Not everybody is as calm as you and me, old buddy. And even we get frustrated sometimes.